The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Kick Drum Mic to Compliment Heil PR40? Dynamic Microphones
Old 25th March 2018
  #1
Gear Nut
 

Kick Drum Mic to Compliment Heil PR40?

Hey all —

So I’m looking for a second microphone to compliment my Heil PR40 on kick drum.

I love the PR40 for it’s tight low-end and pleasant attack.

However, while it is tight, it doesn’t have the beefiest lows/low-mids - I’m hoping a second microphone can help supplement this.
I also want a more natural room tone to come out a bit - making the kick feel less direct and a bit more true to how it sounds in person.

Additionally I’m also looking to add more of that papery attack and punch that one achieves from mic’ing the outside of the kick - with the PR40 being placed inside the port hole to achieve more attack and focus.

So essentially —
I’m looking for a microphone that will add girth, weight and low-end punch — without being flubby or boomy.
I also want it to add just a little bit of room tone and dimension along with a “papery” attack/punch — to make the kick feel less direct and more natural instead.

From what I’ve read, the U47 FET seems to fit this bill pretty well...
But I’m not gonna spend $4000 on a kick drum microphone - especially considering how low and subtle this mic will be in the final mix.

Both mics will be summed through a Chandler TG-2 Preamp.

Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated here.

I’m looking to spend $500 or less.

Thanks!
Old 26th March 2018
  #2
I've been using the Telefunken M82 as my inside mic, and have two different mics parked outside the front bass drum head: a Solomon LofrEQ and a Cascade Fathead 2 (stock). They each capture a different picture of the kick drum, and both do a nice job of eliminating bleed from the rest of the kit (much better than an LDC, in my experience). Your $500 budget could easily fit both, and then mix and match depending on the drum/track/mood/etc.

I've never used a U47 FET in my space - like you, I don't have four grand to park in front of my bass drum! I'm sure they're lovely, though...
Old 26th March 2018
  #3
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dylanwissing View Post
I've been using the Telefunken M82 as my inside mic, and have two different mics parked outside the front bass drum head: a Solomon LofrEQ and a Cascade Fathead 2 (stock). They each capture a different picture of the kick drum, and both do a nice job of eliminating bleed from the rest of the kit (much better than an LDC, in my experience). Your $500 budget could easily fit both, and then mix and match depending on the drum/track/mood/etc.

I've never used a U47 FET in my space - like you, I don't have four grand to park in front of my bass drum! I'm sure they're lovely, though...
Thanks for the suggestions!
I’ve been eyeing the LoFreq for a long time. I’m definitely gonna get one to use as a SubKick mic one day.
Regarding the Fathead — I probably wouldn’t stick a ribbon mic in front of a kick drum. Air blasts are said to put a lot of strain on ribbons and might damage them over time. YMMV though.

Right now, the mic that has most piqued my interest is the Advanced Audio CM47fet/CE.
It’s basically a $400 alternative to a U47 FET.
I think it might just be the one.
Old 26th March 2018
  #4
Lives for gear
 
druhms's Avatar
Keep in mind your mic placement and drum tuning.
You're kinda asking for two different sides of the spectrum. You want the paper / natural element and the beef and punch....in one mic. That may be hard to come by, unless you're cutting low volume jazz.
If you have the top end attack with your Heil (which I am not familiar with) then a beefy option is a good ol' RE-20. It's got beef and punch. Handles the girth effortlessly. Not extremely hyped. But, this won't be the best natural and papery mic unless you use it on the outside head in a low volume setting with a touch of eq. Adding a second kick mic is very dependent on your phase relationship with the first mic. Always check your phase or you'll completely ruin any benefit a second mic might offer.
Hood luck!
JJ Crews
Boogie Tracks — Boogie Tracks Recording Studio
Old 26th March 2018
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by derrek_clay View Post
Regarding the Fathead — I probably wouldn’t stick a ribbon mic in front of a kick drum. Air blasts are said to put a lot of strain on ribbons and might damage them over time. YMMV though.
I always have mine at the level of the top kick drum hoop, angled down at 45 degrees (no pop filter). I've never had the slightest issue of any kind of damage to the mic in that position, and I've compared it to it's matched stereo sibling who almost always sits in a case unused to make sure it's not degrading over time. It's not!

With the null pointed at the cymbals, it gets great isolation from the rest of the kit, and just captures a gorgeous, round, beefy tone tone that pairs really nicely with the inside kick mic. YMMV as well, of course, and I'm curious to hear how the AA mic works out.

The LoFrEQ rules, and they REALLY nailed the design of that mic! I love how easy it is to place in front of the kick, too - really lightweight.
Old 26th March 2018
  #6
Lives for gear
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
I use an EV ND868 outside kick. I know there are more elaborate setups, but this one gives me what I want, with a very basic setup and small investment.

I wouldn't want to try to get my entire kick sound from one inside the hole mic. At least these days, I prefer to have more control in the mix. So two mics gets me there.
Old 26th March 2018
  #7
Lives for gear
 

Why don't you just build your own sub kick using a speaker? That sounds like what your want from your post.

I've used one for a number of years and it can be very beneficial if you know how to work with one.

The biggest problem you will have to deal with whenever you use two mics on the same source is phase problems.
If the two mics aren't the same distance from the kick heads you have phase shifting and frequency cancellation. Even if they are the same distance the materials of one mic diaphragm can react more slowly then another making the signal lag behind the other causing things like loss of transient strength the knee is softened by two different attack curves combined.

Typically you have to shift tracks in order to align the transients of two mics and the results can often wind up being worse then simply EQing one mic.
I do suggest you learn how to do this because its not allot of fun and its the only thing that works besides finding the ideal placement in the beginning.
Old 26th March 2018
  #8
Gear Head
 

I like a tlm103 about 6" out and a d112 around 6 inches in the kick. distressor on the d112 and I don't have to time align! d112 gets the click tlm103 the beefy lows and low mids you request but no room sound from the tlm103 for me cause I put a moving blanket setup over the kicks and a room mic around 20 feet away for the room sound
Old 26th March 2018
  #9
Lives for gear
 
GreenNeedle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by derrek_clay View Post
Hey all —

So I’m looking for a second microphone to compliment my Heil PR40 on kick drum.

I love the PR40 for it’s tight low-end and pleasant attack.

However, while it is tight, it doesn’t have the beefiest lows/low-mids - I’m hoping a second microphone can help supplement this.
I also want a more natural room tone to come out a bit - making the kick feel less direct and a bit more true to how it sounds in person.

Additionally I’m also looking to add more of that papery attack and punch that one achieves from mic’ing the outside of the kick - with the PR40 being placed inside the port hole to achieve more attack and focus.

So essentially —
I’m looking for a microphone that will add girth, weight and low-end punch — without being flubby or boomy.
I also want it to add just a little bit of room tone and dimension along with a “papery” attack/punch — to make the kick feel less direct and more natural instead.

From what I’ve read, the U47 FET seems to fit this bill pretty well...
But I’m not gonna spend $4000 on a kick drum microphone - especially considering how low and subtle this mic will be in the final mix.

Both mics will be summed through a Chandler TG-2 Preamp.

Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated here.

I’m looking to spend $500 or less.

Thanks!
Try an Akg 414b-uls out front, just what you described. Vari the pattern for more or less room tone. Great mic for many other things as well.
Old 27th March 2018
  #11
Here for the gear
 

I often use an audio D6 for more punch and weight but you can also try the warm audio WA47 of WA47jr. It will work well.
Also try a 10 “ speaker for a change.

YouTube
Old 28th March 2018
  #12
Here for the gear
Give the DTP 640 REX Go!

I own several kick mics (AKG D 112, Audix D6, EV ND 68, Heil PR40, SE Electronics X1D, Yamaha Subkick to name a few).

One kick mic I own that I have grown fond of is the Lewitt DTP 640 REX dual element kick mic. The dynamic element has beefy low end (don't even need the Subkick!) and extends deep into the subterrenian territory. The condenser picks up crisp high end attack and upper mids. Neither element covers the spectrum on its own but together they cover an extended range and complement one another (in perfect Phase!)

It is designed for close mic placement so not sure if it answers your need for room ambience or papery attack but it is one fine mic for kick! You can always choose to use just one element to add to your PR 40.
Old 28th March 2018
  #13
Gear Maniac
 

sennheiser e602
I’ve used one for more than a decade and it’s still my primary kick mic.
Lots of thick low end and girth
Old 28th March 2018
  #14
Lives for gear
 
druhms's Avatar
Try a good ol' 421.
JJ
Old 28th March 2018
  #15
Gear Nut
 

Beyer M88 is becoming my new favorite. On a well tuned bass drum ,it kills inside or outside equally.

The Neumann FET47 is fantastic, but yea... $$$$. Someday. ugh.

In that lineage, I've used the Lawson FET47 and was VERY impressed (also a great vocal mic). Most recently I got to try out the Advanced Audio FET47 thing and thought it sounded pretty good. Definitely not a FET47, but fine in its own right. There's a thing in the low end with the real deal that is so sick.
Old 29th March 2018
  #16
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggot Brain View Post
Beyer M88 is becoming my new favorite. On a well tuned bass drum ,it kills inside or outside equally.
What pre are you using? My M88 blows out all the pre's I've tried. But it does sound great!
Old 30th March 2018
  #17
Gear Nut
 

Sytek usually. Never once had an issue with the M88 overloading my pre on any source, and I typically record LOUD bands. I suppose it would on a hardcore screamer vocalist, but I use a Daking because it has a pad and EQ for that stuff typically.
Old 30th March 2018
  #18
Gear Maniac
 
Jon Harter's Avatar
Adding a mic to the outside head will definitely help add some girth to your sound.

Try using the overheads and/or the room mics to bring out some of the papery quality you're looking for. Room mics or a front-of-kit mic can really help with a natural sounding kick drum.

Best of luck!
Old 2nd April 2018
  #19
Gear Head
 

Very happy with an e602. I think it ended up producing some of my most useful kick captures. Definitely sounds proper in the low and low mids. High end is really responsive to mic position. Don’t know if it would be my first choice for roomy kick ambience though. A condenser or ribbon FOK serves well to fill the gap in the e602’s mid scoop.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #20
Old 2nd April 2018
  #21
Gear Addict
 

Used a pr40 inside and a m88 tg outside and had great results.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #22
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
I use an EV ND868 outside kick. I know there are more elaborate setups, but this one gives me what I want, with a very basic setup and small investment.

I wouldn't want to try to get my entire kick sound from one inside the hole mic. At least these days, I prefer to have more control in the mix. So two mics gets me there.

This is my all time favorite kick drum mic and I almost never hear anyone else singing it’s praises...
Old 2nd April 2018
  #23
Lives for gear
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNYC View Post
This is my all time favorite kick drum mic and I almost never hear anyone else singing it’s praises...
I've seen some people using it here and there. I guess it is a little less well known than some of the more 'standard' brands.

I've had mine since 2005. I think it was my first "good mic" other than an SM58 from the late '90s/earliest 2000's. And an EV RE11 I got from a friend in the mid-90s, that I still have.

I was so floored when I heard it in a kick hole for the first time. I think maybe that was the beginning of my microphone fetish.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #24
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNYC View Post
This is my all time favorite kick drum mic and I almost never hear anyone else singing it’s praises...
Can vouch for that mic too. Was tracking at a studio that had all the usual mic suspects, but the owner told me I needed to try the EV. Took as long as it takes to put the thing on a mic stand to get an almost finished bass drum sound.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #25
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggot Brain View Post
Can vouch for that mic too. Was tracking at a studio that had all the usual mic suspects, but the owner told me I needed to try the EV. Took as long as it takes to put the thing on a mic stand to get an almost finished bass drum sound.
I’m still baffled why it doesn’t get more love...I went through every usual suspect and wasn’t happy....the instant I put up that EV it just right to me.
Old 3rd April 2018
  #26
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
I've seen some people using it here and there. I guess it is a little less well known than some of the more 'standard' brands.

I've had mine since 2005. I think it was my first "good mic" other than an SM58 from the late '90s/earliest 2000's. And an EV RE11 I got from a friend in the mid-90s, that I still have.

I was so floored when I heard it in a kick hole for the first time. I think maybe that was the beginning of my microphone fetish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNYC View Post
This is my all time favorite kick drum mic and I almost never hear anyone else singing it’s praises...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggot Brain View Post
Can vouch for that mic too. Was tracking at a studio that had all the usual mic suspects, but the owner told me I needed to try the EV. Took as long as it takes to put the thing on a mic stand to get an almost finished bass drum sound.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNYC View Post
I’m still baffled why it doesn’t get more love...I went through every usual suspect and wasn’t happy....the instant I put up that EV it just right to me.

Seems like they’ve since replaced/updated this mic with the ND68
Old 3rd April 2018
  #27
Lives for gear
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by derrek_clay View Post
Seems like they’ve since replaced/updated this mic with the ND68
Yeah, they did something funky with what used to be the ND468... so I'd be curious if they funked with the 868 as well with the new mic. May not be the same thing.
Old 4th April 2018
  #28
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
Yeah, they did something funky with what used to be the ND468... so I'd be curious if they funked with the 868 as well with the new mic. May not be the same thing.
They did, I looked up the freq curves. Some EV mics keep frequency respone through generations, these did not. The 767/ND76 also changed, that's the 468 capsule handheld mic I want.

Not crazy for kick mics, I like some of the very common ones, but would get an 868 at the right price.
Old 17th April 2018
  #29
Here for the gear
 

I purchased my first original AKG D12 20 years ago. I immediately got it cleaned and rebuilt to original specs, I have never looked back. I use nothing else on kick drums. If your interested here is what I do with it: Firstly (and most importantly) I tune the Kick to my liking with decisions on wood or felt pedals, click pad or no click pad, sandbag and acoustic dampening inside or not. Once I have the drum itself sounding good to my ears when kneeling in front of it (from the back nearish where my mic might be placed) I position my D12. For separation and less spill purposes I will often place a heavy blanket over the back end of the kick drum and mic stand. From here I use a GML mic pre to GML EQ to a Urei 1178 then believe it or not a BBE 802. I may not always use all in the line but this gives me ultimate control of how I want the kick to sound. Just a touch of 1178 comp can make a big difference. The speed and front end of the GML mic pre is perfect for me. The GML EQ lets me tune the sound without sounding over EQ'd even when I hammer or de-hammer some frequencies and the BBE just adds more click or more overall body if I wish to use it. With this combo, I always get what I want and I never have to use samples to replace my original recorded kick drum. Its just my take on it fellow Slutz.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump