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Silver Bullet vs. Chroma 500 Series EQ\'s
Old 24th March 2018
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Silver Bullet vs. Chroma

Wasnt sure if the Silver Bullet thread was proper, so I thought a new thread would be the way to go.

What is the primary difference between the Silver Bullet vs. Chroma 500 series, in terms of sound and tone shaping? I know the Silver Bullet has an EQ, but I think the Chroma is based off of the Silver Bullet, right? If so, do they sound alike, and basically do the same thing? Or are they completely and totally different?

Thanks
Old 24th March 2018
  #3
Gear Maniac
 



Do I really need to read through ten pages to find an answer that I dont know that's there or not?

Nice response, thank you.
Old 24th March 2018
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
Animesh Raval's Avatar
Yup as Twenty Staxx has said, there are dedicated threads and also quite a bit of info on the dedicated Silver bullet thread:

Louder than Liftoff Silver Bullet first impressions

FWIW, I'd suggest emailing Brad who is very helpful (and quick) in answering questions. But briefly, it will depend on your workflow and what problem you're hoping to solve.

I was debating chroma vs SB and after talking to Brad I opted for the Silver Bullet because it seemed more suitable to how I work. Yes they are in the same ball park sonically but the SB has a few more features that may (or may not) make it more practical for you. So have a read of those threads, chat to Brad, and hopefully you'll arrive at the answers you need

Best wishes
Animesh
Old 24th March 2018
  #5
Gear Maniac
 

Nope - those threads are not at all a good place to start, as I cant go through page after page looking for something that I dont know is there or not. A few pages, sure. But not that many. Does the Louder than Liftoff Silver Bullet first impressions thread have comparison information between the two? I don't know. And nobody in their right mind is going to read thorough 65 pages to hopefully find something that they dont know is there or not. That's why I asked here.

Thank you.
Old 24th March 2018
  #6
Lives for gear


Quote:
Originally Posted by salbinti View Post
Nope - those threads are not at all a good place to start, as I cant go through page after page looking for something that I dont know is there or not.
Old 24th March 2018
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
Animesh Raval's Avatar
Ok then, well the reasons I went for Silver Bullet rather than Chromas were:

1. In the Silver Bullet not only do you get the API and Neve saturation, but can also cascade into them i.e. A > N, or N > A, for different combos of flavours. I believe chroma is just A or N.
2. You can get 2 Chromas and cascade from one into the other to mimic the silver bullet, but of course that's 1 single channel.
3. The Silver Bullet EQs can be boosted or attenuated. With the Colour module aspect of the chromas you are blending in an effect, you don't have the same control.
4. With the SB you have a number of ways of integrating it into your workflow. It has stereo mix in (so you can strap it onto your 2buss), it has 2 "track" channels - essentially another 2 line ins you can record audio through it, and then another 2 mic ins, so it can act as a mic pre. Plus inserts for further integration with consoles etc.
5. There is some other functionality not present in the chroma - like the vintage mode.

So you need to figure out what your needs are. Perhaps the Chromas are a bit more like mic pres with the silver bullet flavours but not the versatility. Whereas the SB really is the kit and caboodle for mixbuss processing (and also mic pres etc). Do you want mic pres with a choice of colour function? Or do you want mix buss processing and mic pres rolled into one with more versatility for EQing mixes?

I hope that helps? Though I do think you should still check out those threads because people are sharing experiences with how they're using their products. DrBill has around 5-6 silver bullets and a number of chromas integrated into his workflow and talks about it there - so there's far more info packed into those threads that I can write here.
Old 24th March 2018
  #8
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by salbinti View Post
Wasnt sure if the Silver Bullet thread was proper, so I thought a new thread would be the way to go.

What is the primary difference between the Silver Bullet vs. Chroma 500 series, in terms of sound and tone shaping? I know the Silver Bullet has an EQ, but I think the Chroma is based off of the Silver Bullet, right? If so, do they sound alike, and basically do the same thing? Or are they completely and totally different?

Thanks
Hi There salbinti!

Yes, the Chroma is based off the Silver Bullet, and for the most part, has the same circuitry, but packed into a smaller footprint, with (obviously) mono signal path. Neither are built to a "price point" and are effectively the best we could do within the form factor and build work flow designs. The Chroma uses the same transformers as the Silver Bullet, and most of the parts and circuit design are the same.

So no, they are not completely different. They are pretty similar - and in many situations, you will not be able to discern a difference "sonically" between the two. But due to the different form factor, there are significant differences that may affect your expenditure and / or workflow depending on your use and how you want to work. IMO, layout and user interface are very important to what we end up with sonically - so there are differences in that regard. (Again, obviously)

For me, the most obvious difference is the ability to cascade mojo blocks on the Silver Bullet. Although I do not cascade every time I use a Silver Bullet, this is a significant and huge determining factor for me in normal use. For me to be able to do with the Chroma's what I can do with the Silver Bullet - it would take 4 Chroma's and twice the knob spinning.

Cost wise, if you don't have a 500 rack, the Chroma's can get almost as expensive as a Silver Bullet. The benefit is....you can go 5.1 with the Chroma's - AND - they have a very creative expansion option called a "colour" slot. Lots of fun there. In terms of bang for buck per square inch of rack space - the Chroma's win. In terms of single channel flexibility - the Chroma wins. In terms of creative user workflow - the Silver Bullet wins - FOR ME due to the way the cascading feature is laid out on the front panel. (The Chroma can do a bit of cascading too with the Mass Drivr and/or Royal Blue color modules but it is diffferent. And that may be better or not as good depending on your perspective and work flow.) In terms of 2 bus EQing, the Silver Bullet wins due to it's front panel ability to sculpt the sound with the EQ. I didn't think this would be as big a deal for me as it has ended up being. I'm absolutely dependent on that EQ for my mixes now.

It should also be noted that the Chroma's have the Silver Bullet's EQ as well, but they are "preset" amounts of boost - with no option of "cutting". Nice, but nowhere near as versatile as the Silver Bullet topography.

There are work flow differences. Chroma's are mono units, the Silver Bullet is dedicated stereo without an option of "dual mono" - which 2 Chroma's afford. for applications like drum overheads, the stereo aspect of the Silver Bullet is awesome. For Kick/Snare or two guitar mics, the Chroma is a better call.

Without knowing your exact work flow and uses, it's hard to hone in on exactly which might be better for you. Perhaps you can elaborate on how you would use the unit(s) for us and we can be of further assistance.

Here's a couple of posts that I had in one of the other threads that may be of help in your decision. If you have more specific questions or want to explore your work flow more....shout out and I'll try to help you dial this in.

Here's some posts I made earlier that may be of help.....







Quote:
Originally Posted by joninc View Post
You'll get a lot of the mojo - but no all of it.

The one major difference is probably in the eq side - with the chroma it's a fixed boost and with the SB it's variable and can be cut as well as boosted. plus the "tight" and "vintage" settings...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco1Disco2 View Post
Thanks. I'm not too concerned about the EQ, as I already have an RND 551 and may pick up another Neve-style EQ in the future. I was more curious about the ooompf factor from the gain stages. How about two Chromas in series, with Mass Drivrs (Blue) in each? Wouldn't that be more ooompf than the SB?
The topologies and signal flows are a touch different as well, with the cascading mojo blocks on the SB vs. the Color slot on the Chroma. There are definitely similarities, and it's obvious they are in the same camp / family - but there are differences as well. As to which suits you better you better..... That's a hard call. The cascading and swappable mojo blocks are a game changer for me, and that probably pushes me a touch more towards the SB - although the Chroma with it's color slot is super powerful, and I wouldn't want to mix without that those either.

Bottom line - choose which work flow suits you more and go with that.

re: EQ. The 551 isn't anything like the Silver Bullet EQ. Two different beasts. The SB EQ is quite unique. Check out the SOS review.

re: 4 Chroma's in series vs SB. Again, different beasts - with the Chroma's costing a bit more. But....again, my best suggestion is to figure out your preferred work flow and go that direction.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco1Disco2 View Post
Thanks, Brad. I was referring to drBill's comment about the different power supply. Not really an "issue", just a difference. I'm using a Heritage MCM-8, which I think is a good supply, and works like a mini-console in some ways. The Chroma should be a good match. My goal is to sit that on my desk and try to do everything with it. Since I'm just one person self-recording, it should be fine.
You really can't go wrong either way. From what I hear, that MCM-8 is a great 500 rack, and the differences between Chroma and SB are again - mostly about the work flow. The cascading element of the SB is so effortless and elegant, and I can spin 4 knobs instead of 8+, bounce back and forth between A only, N only, A>N, N>A and swap the cascade with a perfect - true stereo balance in a couple of seconds. I can do it literally with my eyes closed. The Chroma might take 12-15 seconds, but it's got the Color slot....... tre cool!!

That elegance and speed is one of the main reasons I contacted Brad and started brainstorming with him on the SB. Elegance, speed and an interface that beckoned me to twist knobs. I think the SB is perfect in that respect. The other pieces of gear I was using previously to "try" to come up with what I heard in my mind were clunky and a PITA to experiment with or swap around.

As for the SB EQ - I could not continue to live and work on this spinning orb without the SB EQ (mostly variable amounts of air and sub), tight and the badass punchiness it brings and the way vintage de-digitizes my mixes. They are - for me - irreplaceable. But that's just me perhaps.....

They both have Uber-Cool metering. The SB's are bigger, but the Chroma's are bi-directional.

The SB is a locked in architecture, but the Chroma beckons to be tweaked with because of it's color slot. Good times await those willing to experiment and tweak.

Flip a coin, and get the other option later. After you experience one, you'll definitely find a use for the other. IMO this is one of those (rare for me) situations where more is MORE!!

Last edited by drBill; 24th March 2018 at 06:50 PM..
Old 24th March 2018
  #9
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twenty Staxx View Post
Old 24th March 2018
  #10
Gear Maniac
 

Thank you Bill and Animesh

See, this is what I was looking for. Straightforward answers with useful info. Not facepalms, and go read this thread - if it doesn't have a comparison in it, well, too bad on you.

Thanks again.
Old 24th March 2018
  #11
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by salbinti View Post
Thank you Bill and Animesh

See, this is what I was looking for. Straightforward answers with useful info. Not facepalms, and go read this thread - if it doesn't have a comparison in it, well, too bad on you.

Thanks again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by salbinti View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twenty Staxx View Post
I'm not a fan of people telling others to go read threads, personally, but just a heads up that you can search for a keyword within a thread (click on "search thread" at top left of any thread) so those large threads you could have searched for "Chroma" probably quicker than responding to the other posters and *if* there had been any chroma talk it would have been revealed.

Just for the future in case you get forum police/face palmers chasing you.
Old 25th March 2018
  #12
Gear Maniac
 

Ok, that's good to know. Thanks for that.

So, that kind of works. Not completely, as it doesn't give you the post, but a quote from the post. And you are forced you to wade through a whole bunch of pages anyway. But it might help in the future.

Still, it would have been nice if someone had given me that info instead of a faceplam, which insinuates I have done something wrong - or not followed a certain etiquette. Neither of which I feel are the case here.

Thank you.
Old 8th August 2018
  #13
Gear Head
 

Hey Salbinti, what did you end up choosing? I'm trying to make a decision myself as I don't have a 500 rack, but the Chroma's are on sale at 600 a pop so its pretty tempting.
Old 8th August 2018
  #14
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by kev1n28 View Post
Hey Salbinti, what did you end up choosing? I'm trying to make a decision myself as I don't have a 500 rack, but the Chroma's are on sale at 600 a pop so its pretty tempting.
Yeah, I'm in the same club!
Old 8th August 2018
  #15
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Guys -
@kev1n28 & @Friedrik83 Here's the basic design criteria that might push someone one way or the other :

Portability : Chroma
Dual Mono Workflow : Chroma
Stereo Workflow : Silver Bullet
Super Cool, but Left Of Center Metering : Chroma
High Resolution Worldclass Metering : Silver Bullet
Best expansion opportunities : Chroma (via Colour Slot)
Best overall DAW workflow options : Silver Bullet
Best & most versatile i/o : Silver Bullet
Best Filters : The Chroma shows up, but the Silver Bullet comes out ahead
Best EQ : Again, the Chroma shows up, but the Silver Bullet comes out far ahead
Best setup for textural saturation options : Silver Bullet
Ability to Cascading console topologies : Silver Bullet, but Chroma gets honorable mention if the colour slot is employed.
500 Series : Chroma
19" Rack Series : Silver Bullet
Black Face "Void Corp" editions : Silver Bullet

That should give you all you need to know. Choose, but choose WISELY.....

Maybe some of the other guys that own both will weigh in.
Old 8th August 2018
  #16
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Guys -
@kev1n28 & @Friedrik83 Here's the basic design criteria that might push someone one way or the other :

Portability : Chroma
Dual Mono Workflow : Chroma
Stereo Workflow : Silver Bullet
Super Cool, but Left Of Center Metering : Chroma
High Resolution Worldclass Metering : Silver Bullet
Best expansion opportunities : Chroma (via Colour Slot)
Best overall DAW workflow options : Silver Bullet
Best & most versatile i/o : Silver Bullet
Best Filters : The Chroma shows up, but the Silver Bullet comes out ahead
Best EQ : Again, the Chroma shows up, but the Silver Bullet comes out far ahead
Best setup for textural saturation options : Silver Bullet
Ability to Cascading console topologies : Silver Bullet, but Chroma gets honorable mention if the colour slot is employed.
500 Series : Chroma
19" Rack Series : Silver Bullet
Black Face "Void Corp" editions : Silver Bullet

That should give you all you need to know. Choose, but choose WISELY.....

Maybe some of the other guys that own both will weigh in.
THIS doesn't help.




...Because now I want BOTH.
Old 8th August 2018
  #17
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Friedrik83 View Post
THIS doesn't help.




...Because now I want BOTH.



I hear ya, I hear ya. I am in the same position. Wanting more of all the above. I currently have 5 Silver Bullets and 4 Chroma's and they are all in constant rotation during mixing AND tracking (which I do less of these days....).

Find the one that suits you BEST, then plan for getting the other(s) in the future! Good luck,.
Old 8th August 2018
  #18
Gear Addict
Ok, seriously: I think I'll pull the trigger on the Chromas, but first I will have to start a new lunchbox as my first one is full.

But yes, I was told: once you enter the 500 world, you can't come out.
The point is that I have a shop here where the API 8 is pretty convenient, nothing for free of course but a reasonable price. So I'm somehow encouraged to move towards the 500 options. And I'm running low of spaces for racks, two units is a lush.
Old 8th August 2018
  #19
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Friedrik83 View Post
Ok, seriously: I think I'll pull the trigger on the Chromas, but first I will have to start a new lunchbox as my first one is full.

But yes, I was told: once you enter the 500 world, you can't come out.
The point is that I have a shop here where the API 8 is pretty convenient, nothing for free of course but a reasonable price. So I'm somehow encouraged to move towards the 500 options. And I'm running low of spaces for racks, two units is a lush.
The API 8 channel LB comes out on top in a lot of tests.

But you will eventually want to leave enough space for a SB. Once you taste, you will want big brother....
Old 8th August 2018
  #20
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
The API 8 channel LB comes out on top in a lot of tests.

But you will eventually want to leave enough space for a SB. Once you taste, you will want big brother....
Yup! I was following some thread here about the power supplies and other technical differences between lunchboxes, I don't want to go off topic but I think the API 8 LB is a good tank.

I have 5 empty slots and planning to fill 8. Sorry, now 10. It's a bad world.
Old 8th August 2018
  #21
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Friedrik83 View Post
Ok, seriously: I think I'll pull the trigger on the Chromas, but first I will have to start a new lunchbox as my first one is full.

But yes, I was told: once you enter the 500 world, you can't come out.
The point is that I have a shop here where the API 8 is pretty convenient, nothing for free of course but a reasonable price. So I'm somehow encouraged to move towards the 500 options. And I'm running low of spaces for racks, two units is a lush.
Keep in mind, to get two channels of cascaded amps like the SB, you need four Chromas. That's well over the SB price. The MassDrivr/Blue modules are not the same as another gain stage, but they do add some weight.
Old 8th August 2018
  #22
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco1Disco2 View Post
Keep in mind, to get two channels of cascaded amps like the SB, you need four Chromas. That's well over the SB price. The MassDrivr/Blue modules are not the same as another gain stage, but they do add some weight.
Things get complicated. And to add it's worth reminding that while Chromas got the add-on colours, the SB doesn't... Am I right? But some of the add-ons are features the SB got already, correct?
Old 8th August 2018
  #23
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Friedrik83 View Post
Things get complicated. And to add it's worth reminding that while Chromas got the add-on colours, the SB doesn't... Am I right? But some of the add-ons are features the SB got already, correct?
I don't know how to lay it out any simpler than I did above. Yes, you are correct - the Silver Bullet does not have colour slots. If you need those, chose Chroma's. If you want the cascaded textures of API and Neve console topologies - choose Silver Bullet. The other features are pretty much laid out above - or visit the LTL website.

If you just want me to tell you which one to buy.....I say Silver Bullet. But I won't be offended if you buy Chroma's. And I don't think you'll be disappointed either.
Old 8th August 2018
  #24
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
I don't know how to lay it out any simpler than I did above. Yes, you are correct - the Silver Bullet does not have colour slots. If you need those, chose Chroma's. If you want the cascaded textures of API and Neve console topologies - choose Silver Bullet. The other features are pretty much laid out above - or visit the LTL website.
Your explanations have been very clear, thank you! I wasn't refering to what you wrote, but to the fact that the choice is not simple. Also on the LTL website it is easy to get an idea, but I think here we are talking about a new idea of processing which is different than a compressor or a preamp or an Fx. Some month ago I was close to place an order for two Chromas, but then I was stopped by the fear of buying something I wasn't totally understand. Perhaps it's only something I have to deal with, I am sure that after some more research I will be ready to make my move!
Old 8th August 2018
  #25
Lives for gear
 
BradM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Friedrik83 View Post
Your explanations have been very clear, thank you! I wasn't refering to what you wrote, but to the fact that the choice is not simple. Also on the LTL website it is easy to get an idea, but I think here we are talking about a new idea of processing which is different than a compressor or a preamp or an Fx. Some month ago I was close to place an order for two Chromas, but then I was stopped by the fear of buying something I wasn't totally understand. Perhaps it's only something I have to deal with, I am sure that after some more research I will be ready to make my move!
Hi Friedrik,

Feel free to email me and myself or Michael will be able to answer whatever specific questions you have in depth. If you have FaceTime or Google Voice I'd be happy to talk to you virtually as well. Please do get in touch! I don't want anyone to stress over purchasing audio gear. If I haven't done a good job explaining what Chroma does on the website then I'd love to get direct feedback about how I can make the message clearer.

Hope to hear from you.

Brad
Old 9th August 2018
  #26
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Friedrik83 View Post
Your explanations have been very clear, thank you! I wasn't refering to what you wrote, but to the fact that the choice is not simple. Also on the LTL website it is easy to get an idea, but I think here we are talking about a new idea of processing which is different than a compressor or a preamp or an Fx. Some month ago I was close to place an order for two Chromas, but then I was stopped by the fear of buying something I wasn't totally understand. Perhaps it's only something I have to deal with, I am sure that after some more research I will be ready to make my move!

LOL OK. I get it. Yes, you are absolutely right. It's a new style of processing designed for an analog workflow / sound in a digital world. Here's the bottom line :

Years ago, in an effort to conjure back the sonic textures and console sound of my analog youth, I was kludging together a work flow with mic pre's used as line cards on my Mix bus. I talked about it a lot on GS and other forums and after awhile, I found it became popular to do this with other folks who read my posts. So much so that there are many guys still using the exact pre's I recommended way back when....

Why did I do that? Because I wanted a "console" sound to my DAW. Well, the methodology I was using was not elegant, it didn't inspire experimentation, and it was pretty kludgy. A bunch of mono devices strung together with coarse adjustments on the mix bus. Not exactly great for experimentation or elegant for fast mixing. But sonically, it was pointed in the right direction.

Over a couple of years of mixing with this approach, I got so that I didn't even want to touch it once I got it into the sweet spot. And that just goes again the grain of my approach so....

Fast forward to 4 years ago. I was fed up with the CAPI and AML mic pre's on my mix bus and I wanted something that had more finesse, was easier and more elegant to tweak, something that sounded better and that had more features. Enter my relationship with Brad McGowan @ LouderthanLiftoff.

Brad and I both saw things the same way, and at that point in time, we created something unique. We didn't even know how to categorize it for a year because there was nothing else on the market like it. We (appropriately I think) called it the Silver Bullet. At that point in time, there were no other boxes that claimed to do what it did. Honestly, there's some competition now with "saturation" plugins and hardware devices, but the Silver Bullet is still unique in several categories.

So what is it? Think of it as a 2 channel console - one that you can "drive" into a euphonic, 3D sweet spot. A box that does not require summing out to 16+ channels for OTB summing, but that still gives you a "console" sound. And not just a SINGLE console sound, a "tracked on API, mixed on Neve or Tracked on Neve, mixed on API" or "tracked and mixed on API or Neve" style sound. It's unique. It's high end. It's sonically top notch. And it's a fantastic way to get back to "that sound".

You may ask "why do you need that sound"... Rather than clutter this thread any more, I'd suggest you download the Silver Bullet User Manual from Louderthanliftoff.com and read the preface / prelude to the manual which I wrote. It will clue you in to WHY I felt it so necessary to invent and create a new style of processor.

As for the Chroma - that's where we're at right?? Well, it's a compact, stripped down MONO Silver Bullet in 500 format. It has some advantages, and has some compromises (not a full EQ, no ability to cascade mojo blocks like the SB, less metering, no Tight filter, etc.. - all laid out above). But it's cut from the same cloth. It's going to take you to the same places a Silver Bullet will, albeit with some compromises.

The bottom line is that I have a bias towards the Silver Bullet because it's like my firstborn child, but I also love the Chroma and think that it's an unbelievable bargain, and a top notch creative tool.

It's been a difficult journey to get to where we are today, but the satisfaction of LTL's clients and those using the gear has been so inspiring and humbling. When I hear that one of the guys who I look up to as an industry leader is trying one out and using it, and comes back with glowing reviews....well....humbling. Brad and I are blessed to be able to make these things and hear the comments that come back.

There's been a few guys that didn't resonate with either the SB or the Chroma, but it's honestly been very few. The hundreds of guys that are rocking them every day who report in with stories of successes they have had make the journey worthwhile.

So again.....time's up. Which do you choose??
Old 9th August 2018
  #27
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
PS - just saw Brad's post. Take him up on his offer. Even if you don't buy either one, you'll come away with a lot of insight and knowledge!! Brad is top notch. So is Michael.
Old 9th August 2018
  #28
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradM View Post
Hi Friedrik,

Feel free to email me and myself or Michael will be able to answer whatever specific questions you have in depth. If you have FaceTime or Google Voice I'd be happy to talk to you virtually as well. Please do get in touch! I don't want anyone to stress over purchasing audio gear. If I haven't done a good job explaining what Chroma does on the website then I'd love to get direct feedback about how I can make the message clearer.

Hope to hear from you.

Brad
Thank you Brad, I'll get in touch after the summer holidays!
Old 9th August 2018
  #29
Lives for gear
 
BradM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Friedrik83 View Post
Thank you Brad, I'll get in touch after the summer holidays!
Okay sounds good. Enjoy your holiday!

Brad
Old 9th August 2018
  #30
Gear Head
 

After reading all this Im really liking the Silver Bullet cascading tone abilities. Any chance the SB sees a end of the year sale so I can enjoy an SB and getting my rent paid?

Jk, but.. seriously


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