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Overheads: Gefell UMT70s vs AKG c414 xls Condenser Microphones
Old 1 week ago
  #1
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Overheads: Gefell UMT70s vs AKG c414 xls

Hi, i want to replace my TLM102 with the best quality ldc. Do I replace with AKG c414 XLS or Gefell UMT70s? I already have one Gefell UMT70S.
I have a pair of Neumann km184, Coles 4038 pairs.
Thanks
Old 1 week ago
  #2
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While the xls is not a bad mic by any stretch, I’m not certain I would ever grab it before a umt70, so if I were in your shoes, I’d get another gefell.
Old 1 week ago
  #3
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If it‘s just for overheads, the MG is less analytical than the AKG, has a more pronounced character.
But for versatility, the 414XL-S is hard to beat.
Old 1 week ago
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andychamp View Post
If it‘s just for overheads, the MG is less analytical than the AKG, has a more pronounced character.
But for versatility, the 414XL-S is hard to beat.
I find the UMT70 quite analytical, precise would perhaps be a better term. The UM70 is the one with the character.
Old 1 week ago
  #5
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if c414, check into older variants - or get another gefell!
Old 1 week ago
  #6
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ok guys. now I try umt70s as mono overhead. I want to hear if it's annoying on the high end like tlm102 and km184. I tried these microphones with various preamps (Neve1073, CAPI VP28, Dacking mic-pre VI) and are always annoying. Coles 4038 is not the solution because I get too much drum kit and less cimbals. I'll let you know. thank you all
Old 1 week ago
  #7
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Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
if c414, check into older variants - or get another gefell!
no one sell older version in Italy :(
Old 1 week ago
  #8
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andychamp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPower View Post
I find the UMT70 quite analytical, precise would perhaps be a better term. The UM70 is the one with the character.
I have a pair of UMs that are my 1st choice LDCs oh OHs, and thought the UMTs would just be a tad lighter in the lows. But never as neutral and precise as the AKG.
My XLS is what I get out when I wanna be ready for anything (like when I know the band will bring in some unusual instruments, but not which ones).

(On a side note, my 1st choice on OHs these days are either Coles or Beyer MC930 SDCs. A pair of these will cost you roughly 1/2 of a Gefell)
Old 1 week ago
  #9
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I did some tests with Gefell UMT70S as mono overhead, trying out the polar patterns. What I got is a sound that is certainly softer on the high end and very focused on the mid-range. My room is very small and has a bad sound, but with some trick I can make it sound decently. I also put a test with TLM102 which is not bad, but has an uncontrollable high end.
I'm not completely satisfied with Gefell as an overhead. What do you think?
Attached Thumbnails
Overheads: Gefell UMT70s vs AKG c414 xls-img_20180212_132223.jpg  
Attached Files

TLM 102 + CAPI VP28 (HPF180Hz).wav (2.82 MB, 633 views)

UMT70S (cardioid) + CAPI VP28 (HPF180Hz).wav (2.93 MB, 613 views)

UMT70S (figure 8) + CAPI VP28 (HPF180Hz).wav (2.93 MB, 684 views)

UMT70S (omni) + CAPI VP28 (HPF180Hz).wav (2.84 MB, 591 views)

Old 1 week ago
  #10
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pgghione View Post
I did some tests with Gefell UMT70S as mono overhead, trying out the polar patterns. What I got is a sound that is certainly softer on the high end and very focused on the mid-range. My room is very small and has a bad sound, but with some trick I can make it sound decently. I also put a test with TLM102 which is not bad, but has an uncontrollable high end.
I'm not completely satisfied with Gefell as an overhead. What do you think?
I think you'd get more improvements with a cloud and bring the mics a little lower and thus away from the ceiling.

FWIW I'm a UM70 fanboy so would go with the UMT70 over the 414.

HTH

Tony
Old 1 week ago
  #11
A pair of old km84 would go very well with your coles I find the newer 414 super bright much like the km184. Otherwise the um70 with transformer is very nice!
Old 1 week ago
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bambony View Post
I think you'd get more improvements with a cloud and bring the mics a little lower and thus away from the ceiling.

FWIW I'm a UM70 fanboy so would go with the UMT70 over the 414.

HTH

Tony
I think my room is worst room in the story of recording.
Old 1 week ago
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crille_mannen View Post
A pair of old km84 would go very well with your coles I find the newer 414 super bright much like the km184. Otherwise the um70 with transformer is very nice!
No km84 in Italy..you have a pair ti sell?
Old 1 week ago
  #14
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I think you need to work more on your room
Old 1 week ago
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pgghione View Post
No km84 in Italy..you have a pair ti sell?
I have 4, non for sale though haha! But they are one of the best investment i've done. They sound beutiful, natural, detailed and works on anything you throw at them. Nothing like the km184 whis everything you would expect from a newer mic, overly bright and have non of its transformer weight of its older brother km84, same goes with the 414 vs older 414ebs
Old 1 week ago
  #16
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pgghione View Post
Hi, i want to replace my TLM102 with the best quality ldc. Do I replace with AKG c414 XLS or Gefell UMT70s? I already have one Gefell UMT70S.
I have a pair of Neumann km184, Coles 4038 pairs.
Thanks
You can hear a variety of OH options here - along with Gefell and AKG's although slightly different versions that the ones you have :

Drum Mic Madness!!!!

Leave your thoughts on the thread if it's helpful.
Old 1 week ago
  #17
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Originally Posted by nnajar View Post
I think you need to work more on your room
i think so, but it too small an like a tunnel..weird stuff :(
Old 1 week ago
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crille_mannen View Post
I have 4, non for sale though haha! But they are one of the best investment i've done. They sound beutiful, natural, detailed and works on anything you throw at them. Nothing like the km184 whis everything you would expect from a newer mic, overly bright and have non of its transformer weight of its older brother km84, same goes with the 414 vs older 414ebs
i know this old story..but no way to find older km84 also older 414 :(
Old 1 week ago
  #19
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
You can hear a variety of OH options here - along with Gefell and AKG's although slightly different versions that the ones you have :

Drum Mic Madness!!!!

Leave your thoughts on the thread if it's helpful.
Thanks!!
Old 1 week ago
  #20
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pgghione View Post
I think my room is worst room in the story of recording.
i agree with lowering the overheads a bit will help. also, i find that doing a wide spaced pair helps too.

xy, ortf and patterns like that are great at capturing the instrument and the space they're in really well. but in this case that's not what you want. a spaced pair above the kit does a really lousy job at representing the room they're in while also presenting a very wide kit image.
Old 1 week ago
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crille_mannen View Post
A pair of old km84 would go very well with your coles I find the newer 414 super bright much like the km184. Otherwise the um70 with transformer is very nice!
km 184 and tlm102 are superbright in bad way because too colored. I want them to be superbright and surgical. Owners of Akg c414 xls does this?
Old 1 week ago
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrovertigo View Post
i agree with lowering the overheads a bit will help. also, i find that doing a wide spaced pair helps too.

xy, ortf and patterns like that are great at capturing the instrument and the space they're in really well. but in this case that's not what you want. a spaced pair above the kit does a really lousy job at representing the room they're in while also presenting a very wide kit image.
it's a test whether to buy another umt70s or buy c414 xls. In spaced pair configuration I have a good result, with less room sound. I do not think umt70s go well as overheads for rock / pop music. I think they are more indicated for acoustic / jazz stuff
Old 1 week ago
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pgghione View Post
km 184 and tlm102 are superbright in bad way because too colored. I want them to be superbright and surgical. Owners of Akg c414 xls does this?
No, they sound just as bad as a km184. Scout ebay and reverb and you'll find a pair of km84 or 414b-uls
Old 1 week ago
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crille_mannen View Post
No, they sound just as bad as a km184. Scout ebay and reverb and you'll find a pair of km84 or 414b-uls
Ok thanks!!!
Old 1 week ago
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andychamp View Post
(On a side note, my 1st choice on OHs these days are either Coles or Beyer MC930 SDCs. A pair of these will cost you roughly 1/2 of a Gefell)
You sir, are clearly deranged. You need KM84s as OH, and Coles as FOK.
Old 1 week ago
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pgghione View Post
I think my room is worst room in the story of recording.
Work on fixing the room before getting more microphones.
Old 1 week ago
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdelsolray View Post
Work on fixing the room before getting more microphones.
If you don’t use km84 on overheads you can’t make a records..be careful
Old 1 week ago
  #28
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdelsolray View Post
Work on fixing the room before getting more microphones.
yep! also, the choice of cymbals/sticks/playing technique can affect the sound quite a bit - actually, a lot in this room! try positioning the cymbals lower, hit them softer, use maple sticks with round tips.

and from looking at your kit in this room, i suggest you may not need to put up a spaced pair of overheads: why not have a single center mono overhead, a little lower to avoid reflections from the ceiling? i'm sure you can get decent results with the mics you already own...
Old 1 week ago
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPower View Post
You sir, are clearly deranged. You need KM84s as OH, and Coles as FOK.
Ahahahahahahahah
Old 1 week ago
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
yep! also, the choice of cymbals/sticks/playing technique can affect the sound quite a bit - actually, a lot in this room! try positioning the cymbals lower, hit them softer, use maple sticks with round tips.

and from looking at your kit in this room, i suggest you may not need to put up a spaced pair of overheads: why not have a single center mono overhead, a little lower to avoid reflections from the ceiling? i'm sure you can get decent results with the mics you already own...
ok thanks for the suggestions, mono center overhead could be an option. But with which microphone? TLM102 and KM184 have a high annoying frequency. UMT70S I do not think it's the right choice for rock / pop overheads. The AKG c414 XLS sucks apparently. I sell a kidney to buy a pair of 414 uls
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