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"BEST" mic pre for an SM58 Dynamic Microphones
Old 2 weeks ago
  #31
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScumBum View Post
If you could choose whatever mic pre you wanted to use with an SM58 what would it be ?
58 is a sibilant mic and very hyped, so you'd want something dark IMO
Neveish
Old 2 weeks ago
  #32
Gear Maniac
 

That's why I suggested the VTB-1 & Aphex 107, for those without the budget for a more pricey pre. IMHO I don't think of the 58/57 as "sibilant" though, for most singers. Especially compared to many of the "Chinese capsuled" LDC's.

Chris
Old 2 weeks ago
  #33
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardinal_SINE View Post
58 is a sibilant mic and very hyped, so you'd want something dark IMO
Neveish
Most people put it on a stand and sing directly into it a few inches away . That WILL get you a sibilant sound .

If you hold it in your hand , about chest level , and sing over the top on the Mic......no more sibilance .......unless the mic pre is adding the sibilance .

I'm actually using the SM58 because I'm tired of dealing with sibilance .

And you can crank the monitors and record vocals like a live show .
Old 2 weeks ago
  #34
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
That's why I suggested the VTB-1 & Aphex 107, for those without the budget for a more pricey pre. IMHO I don't think of the 58/57 as "sibilant" though, for most singers. Especially compared to many of the "Chinese capsuled" LDC's.

Chris
I had never heard of the Aphex 107 . Looking it up online its got a good reputation and it was only $100 . So I just bought one
Old 2 weeks ago
  #35
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by EV676 View Post
DAV BG1 gave me the best sound I ever heard from an SM57. I’ll venture that it would be a good match for the lowly 58. YMMV.
The DAV BG1 is the mic pre I'm gonna get . I don't think I've read one bad review of that mic pre . And I highly doubt it will add sibilance like many colored mic pres seem to do .
Old 2 weeks ago
  #36
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herecomesyourman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScumBum View Post
If you could choose whatever mic pre you wanted to use with an SM58 what would it be ?
I would pick a vintage Neve 1272 (with an a Marinair LO1066 transformer, not a Carnhill) if you wanted distortion. In a THD sense where it's pleasant, and adding depth of field.

Or I would probably pick an Aurora preamp/channel strip of some kind if I needed to pick something new and in production that fits that description (I don't own one, but I'm thinking it would be in that ballpark).

If I wanted something cleaner, but with a similar depth of field/image...I would pick a Great River MP-2NV. Going cleaner than that wouldn't help the limited frequency response of an SM58 to my mind. The 500 series version or the 1NV are fine too if budget/space is limited (the same exact design), but I'd want the flexibility of getting an EQ-2NV to pair it with later that a 2NV has via TRS patch cables. In the long run, if I was building towards something bigger, that would be my choice.

A tube pre could work too, I would say D.W. Fearn Preamps and the Thermionic Culture Earlybird would be the ones to beat. That would smooth things out if you need to make it all sound "prettier"/more opulent.

Chandler TG preamps would be a good thing to look at too for an option with a different kind of top and bottom end response. Maybe extending things in those directions without being harsh.

Last edited by herecomesyourman; 2 weeks ago at 03:11 AM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #37
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herecomesyourman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScumBum View Post
The DAV BG1 is the mic pre I'm gonna get . I don't think I've read one bad review of that mic pre . And I highly doubt it will add sibilance like many colored mic pres seem to do .
I don't own a DAV, and haven't used one in person...but if you're on a budget, an FMR RNP might beat the DAV in a head to head. They are fantastic for the money, reliable, and have a bit of a pleasant "tone" for not having a transformer in the line which imparts a bit of that three dimensional quality I'm always looking for in transformer based designs. There is still some of that dimension I want, and they take EQ very, very well. Also they pair well with the FMR compressor line.

Last edited by herecomesyourman; 2 weeks ago at 03:07 AM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #38
Gear Maniac
 

Congrats on the 107. They were $400+, back in their day.

They were known to help smooth out the "digital harshness", of early 16 bit recorders ala ADAT. Folks, like Craig
Anderton, like them.

For me, the baseline of something decent. are the Mackie Onyx pre's.

Both the 107 & VTB-1, are a couple notches smoother.

Another step up IMHO would be the UA610, in addition to the other posts.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #39
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bicarbone's Avatar
There are classic chains like U47->1073->LA2A and SM58->MACKIE VLZ3->ALESIS 3630, respect them, master them, then experiment.

Old 2 weeks ago
  #40
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Chris
Old 2 weeks ago
  #41
Gear Head
In a budget, the Black Lion Audio Auteur mkII could be great for it
Old 2 weeks ago
  #42
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kennybro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post

for the money you would spend on some of the recommended preamps, you could, for example, buy a much clearer microphone!
Haha! My very first thought seeing the OP. Although some do use 58 for studio vocals, it's usually not because of the sound. It's because the singer feels good holding it, so that gets a better performance. I've always thought that there are better mics the singer could hold in the studio, if holding a mic is the key. But hey, that's me.
Old 1 week ago
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro View Post
Although some do use 58 for studio vocals, it's usually not because of the sound..
Agreed. If your good paying client insists on it for hand-held vocal tracking (with the monitors on, of course!) and won't consider anything else, that's one thing.

If you felt that the SM58 was in some way a 'Goldilocks' mic - that it had just the right amount of dynamic stage-mic 'ordinariness' for a specific artist, that would be another thing.

But the OP is also complaining about the lack of clarity of the SM58. He never fully shared his thinking with us, but I wonder if he had, if there wouldn't be more suggestions to just get a different mic - a Telefunken M80, a Shure KSM8 for example.

A great preamp will bring out the best in any mic, and quite a number of great preamps have been recommended. I don't think any of them would cause regret. (Except maybe for bicarbone's #2 "classic chain" , ) But if if the mic has failings, like a lack of 'clarity', even a great preamp will only go so far to address those failings. IMO, not far enough to justify keeping that mic!
Old 1 week ago
  #44
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koder_kanin's Avatar
 

my Neumann pv76 brings the best out all my dynamic microphones sm57 inclusive.
Old 1 week ago
  #45
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kennybro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
But the OP is also complaining about the lack of clarity of the SM58. He never fully shared his thinking with us, but I wonder if he had, if there wouldn't be more suggestions to just get a different mic - a Telefunken M80, a Shure KSM8 for example.
A vocalist came into my studio a while back toting a KMS104. Very nice mic. Great tones. I've been thinking about one for some time, but got a great deal on a pair of Blue Encore 300's. I've used these for recording vocals a few times, and they sound quite nice. Better than a 58 for certain.
Old 1 week ago
  #46
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Ian Brown + SM58 = All Stone Roses lead vocals on classic debut album.

Just one example...

Chris
Old 1 week ago
  #47
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12ax7's Avatar
 

My favorite preamp for most Shure dynamic mics:
.
Old 1 week ago
  #48
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doorknocker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Ian Brown + SM58 = All Stone Roses lead vocals on classic debut album.

Just one example...
Björk used a 58 often as well, according to her it was to keep out the noises from the apartment/loft she recorded in.

Paul Rodgers allegedly mostly used a 57 in the studio, hand-held in front of the blasting studio monitors.

Though it's guesswork I also assume that Robert Plant sometimes uses a 58 in the studio (and always live). The vocals on his 'Dreamland' album sound like a 58 to my ears - a very organic 'rock' sound with a slightlly hyped presence that makes the voice stand out in the mix.
Old 1 week ago
  #49
Gear Maniac
 

Yes, around 10 years ago at a party, I met an AE who recorded Paul Rodgers.
He confirmed that the SM57 was his main vocal microphone.

Chris
Old 1 week ago
  #50
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ScumBum's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Prince - SM57

“He always had a mic on a boom stand over the console for vocals. He’d grab that mic — with the console and the tape machine remote in front of him — and cut all the vocals from the engineer’s chair. Every vocal you’ve ever heard on every Prince record was cut sitting in a chair at the console.

he’d have an SM57 on an arm, lean that over the console crank the mains and deliver an inspiring and emotive vocal and he’d track by himself.”

Frank Sinatra - SM58 on his duets 1993 album .

Chili Peppers Californication - SM57

Deftones Around the Fur - SM58

Pantera Vulgar Display of Power - SM58

smashing pumpkins infinite sadness -SM58

The examples could go on and on...........

The only place an SM58 is not good enough is on Gearslutz .
Old 1 week ago
  #51
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker View Post

Though it's guesswork I also assume that Robert Plant sometimes uses a 58 in the studio (and always live). The vocals on his 'Dreamland' album sound like a 58 to my ears - a very organic 'rock' sound with a slightlly hyped presence that makes the voice stand out in the mix.
I have read on his newer albums he did sometimes use an SM57 into an 1176 . Don't remember which album or songs though .
Old 1 week ago
  #52
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doorknocker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScumBum View Post
The only place an SM58 is not good enough is on Gearslutz .
Spot on!
Old 1 week ago
  #53
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScumBum View Post
The examples could go on and on...........

The only place an SM58 is not good enough is on Gearslutz .
Thanks, I will print this post and throw it at anyone requesting anything else than sm58 for a vocal
Old 1 week ago
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScumBum View Post
The only place an SM58 is not good enough is on Gearslutz .
Why on earth are we wasting all this money on quality vocal mics?
Old 1 week ago
  #55
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herecomesyourman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScumBum View Post
Prince - SM57

“He always had a mic on a boom stand over the console for vocals. He’d grab that mic — with the console and the tape machine remote in front of him — and cut all the vocals from the engineer’s chair. Every vocal you’ve ever heard on every Prince record was cut sitting in a chair at the console.

he’d have an SM57 on an arm, lean that over the console crank the mains and deliver an inspiring and emotive vocal and he’d track by himself.”

Frank Sinatra - SM58 on his duets 1993 album .

Chili Peppers Californication - SM57

Deftones Around the Fur - SM58

Pantera Vulgar Display of Power - SM58

smashing pumpkins infinite sadness -SM58

The examples could go on and on...........

The only place an SM58 is not good enough is on Gearslutz .


Sometimes, when it works, it's perfect. I agree that some people are snobby about the wrong things.

I did the vocal on a single my old band released on VEVO with an SM57. It was the live take from rehearsals, but we just nailed that one song and it seemed pointless to try again.

I don't think it works for everything though. When you want a really intimate sound I would gravitate towards an LDC or ribbon more often than not. But I've done many records with them. I typically prefer a 57 to a 58 though on most applications...it's rare when I would pick a 58. However a Beta 58 is a pretty good mic when I want that difference in curve from a 57 (I think the output level is different?)

If you're convinced a 57/58 best this time around, more power to you. I would still rather pick something with more THD in the realm of a Neve preamp in most cases with that mic...or a Great River MP NV preamp if I wanted something cleaner than a Neve style preamp. There's a great example here of what I'm talking about (SM57 with a Great River is the last example at the end of the video):

Old 1 week ago
  #56
Here for the gear
 

I use a sm58 with a isa one, it's my only mic (besides a sonarworks messurements mic) and since i turned to ITB mixing i had no preamp (used my snd ghost as preamp) so i needed a preamp. It was maybe a little to much moneywise in combi with the sm58 but i got a good deal overseas in the uk with the digiboard in it so hey why not. I bought the preamp with the idea that in the future i could accousticly threath my studio i could buy a warbler condensor mic but well i guess thats a far future, the sm58 is doing the job, i just needed a clean preamp since i only use it for filling in dance music. I don't sing or what so ever. Anyway i like it, and i use it as a headphone preamp to.
Old 1 week ago
  #57
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScumBum View Post
Prince - SM57 “He always had a mic on a boom stand over the console for vocals. He’d grab that mic — with the console and the tape machine remote in front of him — and cut all the vocals from the engineer’s chair. Every vocal you’ve ever heard on every Prince record was cut sitting in a chair at the console.

he’d have an SM57 on an arm, lean that over the console crank the mains and deliver an inspiring and emotive vocal and he’d track by himself.”
This is a bit misleading, seguéing from the description of the methodology to the mention of an SM57. While "every" vocal probably was cut in a chair sitting at the console, only some of them were using an "SM57", and probably not even the majority.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidZ
Prince's vocals had been recorded using a Sennheiser 441 microphone. According to Z, Prince's preference for that particular mic stems from a conversation he had with singer Stevie Nicks, who had suggested it to him. “There's a roll-off on that microphone that actually ends up boosting the high end, spiking it around 3 kHz,” Z explains. “It also has good directionality; Prince liked to sing in the control room, so he would set it up on a stand right by the console. When he wanted to sing, he would just put on headphones. He also liked doing his own punches, too.”
Classic Tracks: Prince's "Kiss" - Mixonline
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Leonard
“He does almost everything himself; he even records his own vocals using a U47 on a boom stand over the console. If he needed you to do a punch or a patch, he'd ask. Otherwise, he'd do his own punching. Classic Tracks: Prince and the Revolution's "Purple Rain" - Mixonline

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvia Massey
.... He would even have a vocal mic hung over the console, usually a Neumann U87, so he could do the vocal recording himself. Gear Stories With Sylvia Massy—Prince and the Gemini II - Mixonline
Susan Rogers also says it was a "U87". I found a number of references to a C12 as well. So it sure looks like Prince did keep a mic on a boom over the console.

Sure, plenty of handheld dynamics have made the cut onto a commercial recording, but let's keep a little perspective here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro
Why on earth are we wasting all this money on quality vocal mics?
Old 1 week ago
  #58
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herecomesyourman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
This is a bit misleading, seguéing from the description of the methodology to the mention of an SM57. While "every" vocal probably was cut in a chair sitting at the console, only some of them were using an "SM57", and probably not even the majority.


Susan Rogers also says it was a "U87". I found a number of references to a C12 as well. So it sure looks like Prince did keep a mic on a boom over the console.

Sure, plenty of handheld dynamics have made the cut onto a commercial recording, but let's keep a little perspective here.




I can double confirm something you're saying here in a way man. My old boss Shelly Yakus is the one who originally got Stevie Knicks to try a Sennheiser 441. It's still one of the top Dynamics I've ever tried on multiple sources. I was thinking that Prince using an SM57 on everything felt a bit "mythological". But if he preferred dynamic mics there are other choices which don't suck at all.

Also it seems from the sources your provide that Prince generally just used whatever was around. And that the Prince "sound" was Prince himself.

Heilsound also makes some great dynamics that beat out a 57 or 58 most of the time...but a 441 would be far better than a 57 or 58 in most cases in my world if I was restricted to using dynamics. Also an SM7b was used for Thriller and that is another dynamic mic which can work on some people in an amazing way (not for everyone though). I know when Dave Grohl isn't using a Bock 251 he'll sometimes use an SM7b for the screamy bits where he imitates Black Francis from the Pixies for example. =P
Old 1 week ago
  #59
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ScumBum's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
This is a bit misleading, seguéing from the description of the methodology to the mention of an SM57. While "every" vocal probably was cut in a chair sitting at the console, only some of them were using an "SM57", and probably not even the majority.








Susan Rogers also says it was a "U87". I found a number of references to a C12 as well. So it sure looks like Prince did keep a mic on a boom over the console.

Sure, plenty of handheld dynamics have made the cut onto a commercial recording, but let's keep a little perspective here.


And heres some more perspective.....

Susan worked with Prince until 1988....

Paisley Park Studios was completed in 1988....So before Paisley Park Studios he recorded at other facilities with Susan and probably used the mics you mentioned .

But I quoted from an interview with Chuck Zwicky who worked with Prince from 1987-1989 at Paisley Park Studios , so this was after Susan . He said Prince had a mic on a boom and cranked the monitors and sang sitting in a chair in front of the console .

Scott LeGere worked with Prince from 2005-2006 at Paisley Park Studios and he said the same thing but mentioned it was an SM57 .

And heres some more "Perspective"........you record music right ?? So you must have an idea of how BAD it would sound to have a U87 or C12 on a boom , right above the console with the monitors cranked a few feet away !! Do you know how much bleed you'd have ??? For rock music maybe the bleed would be ok , but for the music Prince does , it would be WAY too much bleed into a U87 .

Another thing ......if you can't for sure pin point by listening to Princes songs which mic he used , either a U87 or an SM57.....thats a pretty good testament on the fact that the SM57 is a damn good vocal mic .
Old 1 week ago
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScumBum View Post
Paisley Park Studios was completed in 1988....So before Paisley Park Studios he recorded at other facilities with Susan and probably used the mics you mentioned
Either that or she is part of the International Anti-Dynamic Mic Conspiracy. Maybe Sylvia Massy and David Leonard are part of it, too. At no time did I try to claim he never used a 57, but I think I have found rather convincing evidence that he did not always use a 57.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScumBum
... how BAD it would sound to have a U87 or C12 on a boom , right above the console with the monitors cranked a few feet away !! Do you know how much bleed you'd have ??? For rock music maybe the bleed would be ok , but for the music Prince does , it would be WAY too much bleed into a U87 .
The interview you read said he 'cranked up the monitors'. The interview I read said he 'used headphones'.
I can post it again:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidZ
Prince liked to sing in the control room, so he would set it up on a stand right by the console. When he wanted to sing, he would just put on headphones. He also liked doing his own punches, too.”
Classic Tracks: Prince's "Kiss" - Mixonline
Unless DavidZ is also lying, I would say that probably means that he used a number of different mics and techniques as he saw fit. That would mean that the SM57 does not appear on "EVERY" Prince vocal recording. Which is the implication that I was objecting to. The only real constant seems to be Prince kicking out the staff and singing alone in the CR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by herecomesyourman
I was thinking that Prince using an SM57 on everything felt a bit "mythological".
It sure got my Spider-Sense tingling, and when I checked, it seems to indeed be One Of Those.
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