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D & R Console Experience? Consoles
Old 21st October 2002
  #1
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RSMITH123's Avatar
 

D & R Console Experience?

Anyone used a D&R Console? I would appreciate any feedback as I am looking @ getting a Cinemix.
Old 22nd October 2002
  #2
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Re: D & R Console Experience?

Quote:
Originally posted by RSMITH123
Anyone used a D&R Console? I would appreciate any feedback as I am looking @ getting a Cinemix.
Yep - as I type this, I've got a 48 input Cinemix sitting behind me. I've been real happy with it. I have a couple of other names that I could give you who are also Cinemix owners - if you have any specific questions, let me know.

Are you getting a good deal on it? Is it new or used? Is the center section the Cinemix or the Cinemix 2?
Old 22nd October 2002
  #3
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I'm also a very happy D&R owner - not as high profile as a Cinemix, but my little Orion is behaving really good. The only drawback is the automation on it.
Dave how is your automation. Isn't it from the stone age? :eek:

Jo
Old 22nd October 2002
  #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by studjo
I
Dave how is your automation. Isn't it from the stone age?
Well, it's fader/mute automation, with moving faders on upper and lower channels, and mutes on all EXF sends as well as the returns. And the panning on the two surround joysticks is also automatable. What am I missing to bring me up to the 21st century?

I also have to say that I haven't used the automation in 4 years - I generally don't have time for it; it's quicker for me to mix the songs in real time. (one of the joys of using great session musicians...)
Old 22nd October 2002
  #5
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I wish my automation had the off line editor from my old automation system (Behringer btw. - I have the flame suit on )
I think this is really a problem for the bigger desks. If you like to do some off line editing on fades (or trimming something) you have to put some numbers in the computer (I hate it).

But you're not missing that much if your working with top notch musicians.
Btw I realize that you work quite the same way as I do (not much overhead processing and almost no eq on vocals) I like that.

Jo
Old 23rd October 2002
  #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by studjo
I'm also a very happy D&R owner - not as high profile as a Cinemix, but my little Orion is behaving really good.
I've got a Dayner which is even lower profile than the Orion, but I love it. It came with C-Mix VCA automation which runs on an Atari 520ST...

Now THAT is from the stone age.

- jon
Old 23rd October 2002
  #7
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Knox's Avatar
 

I bought a large frame D&R 2000 (pre Daynor) in the 80s. Never let me down.
Old 23rd October 2002
  #8
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Quote:
It came with C-Mix VCA automation which runs on an Atari 520ST...
At least the atari could be sold as vintage

Jo
Old 23rd October 2002
  #9
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Any thoughts on the Vision series? The 8/4/2 Vision 19" for $3000 looks pretty interesting. In general what are the D&R mic pres and eqs like? From the comments I've read elsewhere it seems that D&R runs toward the clean & transparent side of things. Is this a transparency that could still be useful for heavily colored rock recordings (with color added outboard) or is it a bit on the sterile side? Can anyone make any comparisons to A&H, Soundcraft, Mackie, Speck, whatever. Thanks
Old 23rd October 2002
  #10
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Dave,
I haven't made the deal yet al though I have talked to the rep here in Texas. Right now there is a deal on a C2 they want to sell that was ordered and cancelled.

I am hoping to mix a bunch of channels from Nuendo and want the flexibility of 5.1. Any idea how the automation works in relation to DAW's like PT or Nuendo?

BB,
You asked my biggest question. How do they compare to the big boys?
Old 23rd October 2002
  #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by initialsBB
Any thoughts on the Vision series? The 8/4/2 Vision 19" for $3000 looks pretty interesting. In general what are the D&R mic pres and eqs like? From the comments I've read elsewhere it seems that D&R runs toward the clean & transparent side of things. Is this a transparency that could still be useful for heavily colored rock recordings (with color added outboard) or is it a bit on the sterile side? Can anyone make any comparisons to A&H, Soundcraft, Mackie, Speck, whatever. Thanks
A few years back I was seeking to upgrade from my Trident series 24 console (not an 80B--definitely inferior), and one of the contenders was the Cinemix. On 2 separate occasions I took some tunes I'd mixed on my Trident to a Cinemix studio and mixed them there. It was easy to put together a mix, the eq's were useful, everything was very clean sounding. I also did the same thing with a Neotek Elan, thanks to Chris Walsh out at Martinsound. The resulting mixes I lived with for awhile, and finally decided that I missed the warmth and depth and funky character of my little Trident compared to the more bland Cinemix mixes. I concluded that if I wanted that much surgical clarity I would just go ahead and get setup to mix digitally, which is what I did (currently PTHD, previously Mixplus with Apogees). I'm still happy with my decision, (although I liked the Elan a lot, but it was too expensive.)

This is very subjective, BTW, and I'm not making any recommendation. Only you can decide what aspects of the sonic picture are the most important to you. At that price point you're not going to get it all.

Rick Krizman
KrizManic Music
Old 23rd October 2002
  #12
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I'm not really good with comparisons, but I'll give it a try. To me the D&R sounds very clean not steril. Compared to an A&H the Orion has more weight - it's stronger in the bass departement.

There are no phasing issues in the L/R signal. A mastering engineer asked me once whether I mixed digitally, because the top end wasn't rolling of, when he switched to mono. He told me that's a problem for some analog consoles - although I wasn't aware of this problem with my old Mackie.

Speaking of Mackies - the D&R has plenty of headroom on the main bus. I never have a problem with too many channels filling my main bus.

Compared to a DAW I think my desk sounds a tad "warmer" - less steril. But I'm no expert in mixing with DAW or digital desks. I like riding all those knobs

Jo
Old 24th October 2002
  #13
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So don't expect any funk from D&R is that the consensus?
It's what I suspected. Thanks
Old 24th October 2002
  #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by initialsBB
So don't expect any funk from D&R is that the consensus?
Definitely not. With D&R, what you put in is what you get out.

I consider the D&R stuff to be a step up from A&H, & Soundcraft. Mackie isn't even close.

- jon
Old 24th October 2002
  #15
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I know that pre's in a console, especially those in a Neve, SSL, and Trident color a sound quite a bit and to most people, it is for the better. However, I hadn't thought about this in terms of mixdown.(definite oversight)

In the direction of you D&R owners, if I am using some Class A pre's for tracking, like Neve, API, etc., wouldn't a clean pallet like a newer console (Cinemix or ?) be the way to go? I would think that the board would warm things up a bit but without the color of older models, leaving me the room to add some color. Is this what you find in using your boards?

Thanks
Robert
Old 24th October 2002
  #16
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cymatics's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by RSMITH123
In the direction of you D&R owners, if I am using some Class A pre's for tracking, like Neve, API, etc., wouldn't a clean pallet like a newer console (Cinemix or ?) be the way to go? ?
I don't know if it's "THE way to go" but that's basically the way I work (colored ouboard pre's with a neutral console). I find this to be complimentary to my style... but that's just me. I like the flexibility of adding dirt/color/flavor etc. where I see fit.

Quote:
I would think that the board would warm things up a bit but without the color of older models, leaving me the room to add some color. Is this what you find in using your boards?
The D&R stuff is really accurate in terms of frequency response. You won't get any gentle roll off of the highs or subtle enhancement of the low mids (my perception of warm as it pertains to audio). I chose a D&R because of their reputation for being neutral. I like a blank canvas to work on.

- jon
Old 24th October 2002
  #17
Moderator emeritus
 

Quote:
Originally posted by RSMITH123
I would think that the board would warm things up a bit but without the color of older models, leaving me the room to add some color. Is this what you find in using your boards?
It depends, of course, on what you YOU mean by 'Color'.

Really, what you may have to do is rent a day in a studio with a Cinemix and play with it yourself. It seems that Paul told me that there is a Cinemix in Texas, so you shouldn't have to go far. If I'm wrong, I know that there's also one in Vermont, at Egan Media, Jay Garrett has one (though I'm not sure where he is) and I've got mine here.

I'm exceedingly happy with mine, and a couple of other Cinemix owners I corrrespond with are exeedingly happy with theirs.

If you decide to make the purchase, I have a couple of suggestions for you relating to spares, etc., but considering the amount of money you're about to spend, you'll most likely benefit from spending a few hours with your hands on the board.

I'm not sure who all has Cinemix 2's, though - mine's the first edition.
Old 24th October 2002
  #18
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Thanks for the info guys. Your posts made great sense and help a lot.

BTW, just out of curiosity, do any of you D&R owners use the consoles pre's to track or leave that to outboard gear?

Thanks again.
Old 24th October 2002
  #19
Han
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D&R is a Dutch manufacturer by the name of Duco de Rijk who was a guitarist in a band named "Zen" who had a big "hit" with a song from the musical "Hair" many years ago.

He had a special guitar sound because of some stomp boxes he had made himself.

That's how he started his company. They made a number of pretty neat mixing desks that were quite inexpensive too.

One of the special things were the "floating sub groups" of the desks. Although not comparable with hi end gear like Neve, D&R was pretty good bang for the buck.

They made some crappy things too. I remember some ten years ago they made a noise gate which most Dutch engineers called "oise ate"

By that time one of the D&R "nick names" was "Dreun & Ruis, which is in English " Rumble & Hiss". Of course this is only joking.

I have worked a while with a "Triton" before I got myself a DDA-AMR, which is a different "peace of cake".

You can't go wrong with a big D&R board, but you must know the D&R gear has always been inexpensive when new.

On a Dutch "Ebay" kind of website is a Dayner 24 channel inline board offered for $1000.-

Peace, Han
Old 24th October 2002
  #20
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Han is right regarding the different quality of older D&R desks. I also worked on some crappy ones - so it took a while until I was convinced about my board. I think they made some major improvements in the '90.

I actually work with the D&R preamps and some colored outboard preamps. Sometimes I prefer the D&R preamps over the Daking preamps - sometimes not. One of my own favorit recordings was done without any other preamps than the D&R.yuktyy

Jo
Old 25th October 2002
  #21
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Somebody mentioned the Neotek Elan. I just got one and I'm very happy with. It seems to have transparency and balls. . I can't quite explain it. Try one if you can . I to find the D&R consoles to be very interesting. I spoke with the distributor about a year and a half ago. If I were buying a brand new console, I'd want to teat drive a Cinemix.
Old 25th October 2002
  #22
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Congratulation to your Neotek Tony. I worked a bit on an Elite and I liked it very much. What a killer preamp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jo
Old 25th October 2002
  #23
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Quote:
I'd want to teat drive a Cinemix.
Pretty kinky. I thought we were supposed to be the sluts, not the gear.

Bear
Old 26th October 2002
  #24
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Jon-

BTW, I have a great steriod cream for dry skin. You may need it more than I.

robert

grudge :eek: heh

kiddin
Old 11th June 2003
  #25
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Old thread, I know, but has anyone used their outboard compressor? I think it's a half-rack unit, and it's pretty cheap. How about the stand-alone pres? Are they the same as the ones in a Merlin or Orion, for example?
Old 11th June 2003
  #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by StuartMac
Old thread, I know, but has anyone used their outboard compressor? I think it's a half-rack unit, and it's pretty cheap. How about the stand-alone pres? Are they the same as the ones in a Merlin or Orion, for example?
I was told that the circuitry of the stand-alone is the same as the dynamics cards in the Cinemix; and when I bought my board, the seller (who, by the way, stood to profit if I bought some of the Dynamics cards), said that I shouldn't worry about it. the D&R compressors are clean and transparent, but nothing to get excited about. I'd be interested in learing if this is not true of the stand alone boxes.
Old 11th June 2003
  #27
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The facility were I work used to have 2 Cinemix consoles. We had to sell them because the workflow needed to be more streamlined, so now we use PT for mixing as well. (We still got an Octagon BTW).

In general the sound we got from the D&R's was really good. Compared to mixing completely inside PT, there's definitely more warmth when using the Cinemix. Allthough its colouring is subtle, its a nice color. And you've got all those EQ's right there ready to be used, instead of selecting a channel on a DAW (ProControl).

The only problems we've had were: the automated panner doesn't follow as smoothly as when you actually did the panning (might be improved in V2), sometimes some faders weren't reacting, or stayed down or went tilt, but I could get around it with going one step back in the automation, no real problem. And it's an analog console, so it needs service from time to time. Also had a little crosstalk sometimes between 2 track returns, but that could also be something of the patchpanel.

I actually liked the automation, very simple, but effective, all I need, except that the EQ's weren't automatable.

regards,
Geert
Old 11th June 2003
  #28
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Hi Dave

same here I was interested in the dynamics package for my little Orion and the dealer said, that they aren't very good (too many VCA's for my little signal).

Does anybody know why they don't take the VCA from the automation (volume) for the dynamics package? Would I lose my volume automation when they take the same VCA?

Jo
Old 12th June 2003
  #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by studjo
Hi Dave
Does anybody know why they don't take the VCA from the automation (volume) for the dynamics package? Would I lose my volume automation when they take the same VCA?

Jo
I dunno - but I bet an e-mail to Duco at D&R will answer the question.
Old 2nd November 2005
  #30
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I have the octagon in my studio with the dynamics installed. Well to put it simply...the're not so nice. Rest of the desk is super though.
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