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Any new mic sounding similar to vintage km84
Old 3 weeks ago
  #211
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alrod View Post

I have not heard a single mic that sounds exactly like the KM84. There has to be a reason why. I am just trying to figure out the "why". Why can't it be duplicated?
But, but....have you heard ANY single mic that sounds exactly like any other, different mic? Why would different mics sound the same?? Most of the sound is in the capsule, and no one's is like the km84, and every transformer has an identity, etc. Different mics sound different. Should be obvious. lol
Old 3 weeks ago
  #212
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Different mics sound different. Should be obvious. lol
Should be. I'd like to introduce you to scores of former employers, colleagues, and even a Beatle-associated Abbey-Roadster who'd disagree. They're why I have a permanent self-inflicted bruise on my forehead.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Should be. I'd like to introduce you to scores of former employers, colleagues, and even a Beatle-associated Abbey-Roadster who'd disagree. They're why I have a permanent self-inflicted bruise on my forehead.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #214
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG BUDDHA View Post
the old silver AKG 451eb are lovely things, that i have used many times, in places where 84s often reside.

i still have a couple of the old ones. excellent mics.

Buddha
I have several 451 e / eb's as well. Great mics for a bright shimmery sound. But nowhere close to 84's in their voicing. Significantly brighter - in a good way if that's what you're after.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #215
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robert82's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
hahaha mercury is banned, except if it's in your teeth, that's totally cool. What a world.
Don't forget fluoride and contrails, too.

https://www.dentalwatch.org/hg/myths200.html
Old 3 weeks ago
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
Don't forget fluoride and contrails, too.

https://www.dentalwatch.org/hg/myths200.html
You choose to.buy whatever story you prefer and I'll pick my ones.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #217
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
But, but....have you heard ANY single mic that sounds exactly like any other, different mic? Why would different mics sound the same?? Most of the sound is in the capsule, and no one's is like the km84, and every transformer has an identity, etc. Different mics sound different. Should be obvious. lol
The question is why are they no longer being made. Is it because they can't be made? There is apparently a market for them. People are trying to clone them for a reason, right? And yet, no one seems to be able to. Sure KM84 capsules are still available, but it's the other parts that seem to be missing from the equation. Or is it that Neumann sees no market for them so could care less about building them for the few folks who would purchase them?

Someone mentioned that the transformers are no longer in production. My guess is that it played a HUGE role in the sound of the mic. So there is one piece of the puzzle. Then there is the body. Unique, but no longer being made.

The folks at Neuman are smart people. The more I type, the more I think that it would not be cost effective to start manufacturing them again. I may have answered my own question.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
You choose to.buy whatever story you prefer and I'll pick my ones.
I get it. We live in a time when we get to choose our own reality, our own facts.

I'm not going to argue with you. I just think it's an interesting phenomenon that two intelligent people can have opposing views on an otherwise neutral, scientifically verifiable topic, based entirely upon the second hand sources they choose to listen to.

It helps to explain much of the divisiveness in the world today.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #219
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toledo3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alrod View Post
The question is why are they no longer being made. Is it because they can't be made? There is apparently a market for them. People are trying to clone them for a reason, right? And yet, no one seems to be able to. Sure KM84 capsules are still available, but it's the other parts that seem to be missing from the equation. Or is it that Neumann sees no market for them so could care less about building them for the few folks who would purchase them?

Someone mentioned that the transformers are no longer in production. My guess is that it played a HUGE role in the sound of the mic. So there is one piece of the puzzle. Then there is the body. Unique, but no longer being made.

The folks at Neuman are smart people. The more I type, the more I think that it would not be cost effective to start manufacturing them again. I may have answered my own question.
They aren’t made anymore because at the time they were discontinued there were a lot of complaints about noise floor, and even the top end. People even complained about the transformers! There was really a constant refrain, especially in classical recording where these were most popular. Hard to believe now but it’s true.

The noise floor IS arguably high compared to what competitors were doing at the time they were discontinued.

This many years later, it has been borne out that there were many positive factors despite the things people complained about.

Haufe made a run of the transformers awhile back. The KM184 diaphragm (only) is the same as the KM84, while the rest of the bits are different. Presumably some of the replacement KM84 capsules for servicing aren’t NOS from way back in 1992 and are new production.

I think making them again would be about the FET and finding a replacement they feel good about, and whether the price point the mic would be at would make sense on the market or not.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #220
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
I get it. We live in a time when we get to choose our own reality, our own facts.

I'm not going to argue with you. I just think it's an interesting phenomenon that two intelligent people can have opposing views on an otherwise neutral, scientifically verifiable topic, based entirely upon the second hand sources they choose to listen to.

It helps to explain much of the divisiveness in the world today.
No, facts are facts. I have 5 toes on each foot. That's a fact. But most people call things facts that they do not axtually know themselves to BE facts. Unless you personally have done the verifying it is a story. A story. That's all I was pointing out. There are lots of them going round. Some if them have the word 'science' in them. Neutral is the illusion. Pick to pay heed to whichever stories from whatever sources you please. Call them.neutral if you fancy. Whatever. Your choice.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #221
Lives for gear
 

You see nowadays, even Freddie Mercury in our PC world, could only be something like "Freddie Silver", or "Freddie Gold" then!
Chris
Old 3 weeks ago
  #222
Ofc they could be made again. If there are some part of the construction that has to be changed because of laws theyll figure it out.

But maybe Neumann at the time thought the 184 was an improvement. Spec wise and measurement wise. Also the fact that the 184 is cheaper to make must have felt like a win win at the time they where introduced.


Personally I would love a full legacy line. Why would not Neumann exploit their legacy while the rest of the mic business is doing it ha! Even if they where done in smaller numbers to keep up the hype train is beyond me.

They probably know their numbers very well and they have been scouting the waters with the u47f and u67RE so I'm sure more is coming if those two are meeting their sale expectations
Old 3 weeks ago
  #223
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo3 View Post
They aren’t made anymore because at the time they were discontinued there were a lot of complaints about noise floor, and even the top end. People even complained about the transformers! There was really a constant refrain, especially in classical recording where these were most popular. Hard to believe now but it’s true.

The noise floor IS arguably high compared to what competitors were doing at the time they were discontinued.

This many years later, it has been borne out that there were many positive factors despite the things people complained about.

Haufe made a run of the transformers awhile back. The KM184 diaphragm (only) is the same as the KM84, while the rest of the bits are different. Presumably some of the replacement KM84 capsules for servicing aren’t NOS from way back in 1992 and are new production.

I think making them again would be about the FET and finding a replacement they feel good about, and whether the price point the mic would be at would make sense on the market or not.
It's nice when people respond in an intelligent and dignified way. Thanks for that. Good info. It may sound odd, but I actually liked the high noise floor. To me it was part of the "magic" / warmth that it added to digital recordings.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #224
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robert82's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Pick to pay heed to whichever stories from whatever sources you please. Call them.neutral if you fancy. Whatever. Your choice.
I'm guessing that neither of us has participated in an evidence-based study on the toxicity of dental amalgam. So neither of us possesses any first-hand facts.

What's left is that the story I have read says that there is no danger in the use of amalgam, and the story you have read says there is. That about right?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #225
Lives for gear
 

I asked an attorney about all this once, but he insisted on having his retainer first!
Chris
Old 3 weeks ago
  #226
MYN
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MYN's Avatar
Here's the thing with the Haufe transformer. Last year, someone on GroupDIY arranged a group buy directly from Haufe for a run of the original BV107 transformers for those who were building a specific KM84 clone kit that another GroupDIY'er had developed, or any KM84 clone.

You can read about it here: https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=68862.0

The shorthand version is that:
- Haufe said they hadn't manufactured the BV107 in 20 years.
- The group buy order was accepted and Haufe said they'd make that small run of about 30 pieces.
- The order took 44 weeks to fulfill after being delayed twice due to equipment failure
- After the order was delivered, a few of the recipients posted how the transformer wires and even the laminations simply fell out when they were trying to install them into their DIY 84's. So, in the end, they were manufactured poorly.

I'm sure if Neumann came knocking and wanted Haufe to churn out 5,000 BV107's, it would be a different story in terms of quality control, but they aren't currently offering the BV107. And even if they were, they'd still be slightly different from the originals due to RoHS.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #227
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
I'm guessing that neither of us has participated in an evidence-based study on the toxicity of dental amalgam. So neither of us possesses any first-hand facts.

What's left is that the story I have read says that there is no danger in the use of amalgam, and the story you have read says there is. That about right?
Sounds about right to me. ;-) Yours probably uses punctuating words like 'science' and 'peer review' more often. lol
Old 3 weeks ago
  #228
Lives for gear
 

"Holey punctuating participle Batman!"
Chris
Old 3 weeks ago
  #229
This thread has really turned down a lame path.

In an attempt to redirect it:

has anyone tried these mics from Microphone Parts?
https://microphone-parts.com/product...ann-km84-style
Old 3 weeks ago
  #230
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by D_T_Music View Post
This thread has really turned down a lame path.

In an attempt to redirect it:

has anyone tried these mics from Microphone Parts?
https://microphone-parts.com/product...ann-km84-style
I had been eyeing those for months and they were on my to-buy list, but then that opportunity on GroupDIY came up, and I jumped on that instead. I'm definitely interested in hearing from anybody who has built this kit, though.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #231
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alrod View Post
The question is why are they no longer being made. Is it because they can't be made? There is apparently a market for them. People are trying to clone them for a reason, right? And yet, no one seems to be able to. Sure KM84 capsules are still available, but it's the other parts that seem to be missing from the equation. Or is it that Neumann sees no market for them so could care less about building them for the few folks who would purchase them?

Someone mentioned that the transformers are no longer in production. My guess is that it played a HUGE role in the sound of the mic. So there is one piece of the puzzle. Then there is the body. Unique, but no longer being made.

The folks at Neuman are smart people. The more I type, the more I think that it would not be cost effective to start manufacturing them again. I may have answered my own question.
Neumann sells mic’s costing tons - I would remove cost efficiency as a logical reason as to why the KM84’s are seemingly permanently out of productions.

I’d like to posit, using deductive reasoning (cost is not a factor, the marketable population is not either, neither the technology holding this back) that there are two conclusive reasons:

1) they do not want to, for a variety of reasons. But the point is they, as a company, conciously decide not to.

2) they cannot procure either one or mulitple parts which they, the company, know to be the “sauce” of the ‘84 hence why they have a KM184 product which they believed to be the best replacement for the time
Old 2 weeks ago
  #232
Lives for gear
 

Trust me... The 84 reissue SHALL come!
Chris
Old 2 weeks ago
  #233
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Trust me... The 84 reissue SHALL come!
Chris

Hey! I hope so!
I was just listing the two most logical conclusions on why Neumann has not reissued them as of yet.

Hopefully in 10 years somebody reads this and LAUGHS their ****ing ASS off because they own a year 2029 model Neumann KM84 Reissue Pair.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #234
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreySlothStudio View Post
Hey! I hope so!
I was just listing the two most logical conclusions on why Neumann has not reissued them as of yet.

Hopefully in 10 years somebody reads this and LAUGHS their ****ing ASS off because they own a year 2029 model Neumann KM84 Reissue Pair.
Although once it's reissued everyone will say it doesn't sound the same as the vintage ones did.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #235
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjuxtable View Post
Although once it's reissued everyone will say it doesn't sound the same as the vintage ones did.
Lol right!! Reverse confirmation bias.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #236
Gear Nut
 
lucasanything's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Trust me... The 84 reissue SHALL come!
Chris
Haha what makes you so confident, Chris?? Do you have some insider information.....? (Please say yes)
Old 2 weeks ago
  #237
Lives for gear
 

Boy, I wish!

IMHO a big factor to my intuitive guess, is that Neuman must be tired of seeing
SO much money gettting funneled into...

Various and sundry rival competing mic companies.
Must be pesky with that FLEA on their heels!

Maybe if they had been real "Rode Warriors" they might even have come out with...

The new U47-1A tube microphone, with the New "Vistor" Tube.
Or maybe a KM-56 reissue with painted racing flames to match (special Chevy '56 model)


Chris
Old 2 weeks ago
  #238
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Personally, I don''t think they are going to revive the KM84. My clairvoyant take on it. There's too many fairly low priced ones on the market. It's not like the 67 reissue where the available mics were headed towards the stratosphere. As for the 47FET. I have no idea why they reissued that mic.....
Old 2 weeks ago
  #239
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Trust me... The 84 reissue SHALL come!
Chris
Ideally I wouldn't want a KM 84 reissue - but a mic. with the same sound as the KM 84 but with an improved noise figure.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #240
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
As for the 47FET. I have no idea why they reissued that mic.....
I assume for the sake of kick drums everywhere?

Very expensive kick drums ,)
Topic:
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