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Any new mic sounding similar to vintage km84
Old 8th June 2019
  #151
Deleted 691ca21
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It's terrible because I have a lot of money invested in my KM84s (two mics, the servicing, and two brand new capsules from Neumann), and confirmation bias yadda yadda, but OMFG there REALLY is something special about them. I sold ALL my other mics after getting them. Only thing I am still Jonesing for is a nice ribbon, probably pick up a 4038 one day.
Old 8th June 2019
  #152
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bash's Avatar
 

The sad takeaway I pull from this thread is that the good KM84s are being held onto and the crap ones are exchanging hands for big money. ffs, Neumann, reissue them!
Old 8th June 2019
  #153
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I don't know if it's been mentioned in this thread before, but it'd be great if Neumann would do a reissue.
Old 8th June 2019
  #154
Quote:
Originally Posted by bash View Post
The sad takeaway I pull from this thread is that the good KM84s are being held onto and the crap ones are exchanging hands for big money. ffs, Neumann, reissue them!
I can't speak to how my pair holds up against a 'good' pair, but I purchased them from Reverb, and they sound very very nice to my ears, and they also sound the same.

I would like to think I'm cautious about buying expensive 2nd hand vintage microphones. Reverb would have, after all, allowed me to return them if they didn't perform 'as described'. Thankfully I didn't feel the need to navigate those waters, as I'm very happy with how they perform, and, to my ears they perform identically.

I did encounter an issue removing the capsule from one of them, which may or may not be a common problem (there is a thread on GS asking about a broken kk84 with a photo similar to the situation I encountered removing the capsule from one of my km84s) but I was able to reassemble the capsule to the body without issue and it still performs identically to its sibling, at least to my ears.

I've read this anecdote about good and bad km84s too, and honestly have no idea which camp my pair would fall into, as I've got no perfect specimen with which to compare them, but I'll be damned if these don't sound every bit as lovely as I'd hoped they would.

If I can find a pair on the open market that sound this good, I'm willing to bet that all the good km84s are not, as yet, locked down. Either I won the lottery, or they're not as rare or risky a purchase as this suggestion may lead us to believe.

Big money. Sure. My pair was listed at $2550 including a pair of vintage EA21 shock mounts and free shipping. Sure I see pairs listed at 3500, but there are also plenty asking ~$1200 that are probably great sounding.

If $1200 for an all purpose sdc is too much, I hear an oktava mk012 gets pretty close for a lot less.
Old 8th June 2019
  #155
Deleted 691ca21
Guest
I got "good" ones last year, on Audiofanzine. €1500 for the pair. Dude had nine from a Belgian TV studio, all gone in 24 hours. Mine are all but one number consecutive, from 1977. However, the capsules were from very different eras and sounded a bit different. When I got the new capsules they became pretty much identical and are everything I hoped they would be. Now I just need to flip the old capsules on Reverb so I can get me a new KK83...
Old 8th June 2019
  #156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 691ca21 View Post
It's terrible because I have a lot of money invested in my KM84s (two mics, the servicing, and two brand new capsules from Neumann), and confirmation bias yadda yadda, but OMFG there REALLY is something special about them. I sold ALL my other mics after getting them. Only thing I am still Jonesing for is a nice ribbon, probably pick up a 4038 one day.

After allot of experimantion with different setups I really like km84 for OH and coles for rooms. Perfect combo where coles bring all the weight you want and km84 presence and highend sparkle.

Go for it
Old 8th June 2019
  #157
Regarding good or bad examples of km84.

The most common thing I've heard with bad ones is that they are allot thinner then good ones which is all you'd expect, Full body, and good transient response.

Also the good ones I've come across all look really good cosmetic wise too. And all the bad ones looked awful. Not that thats a guarantee of anything but worth taking in to consideration if youre out looking for a pair.
Old 8th June 2019
  #158
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I predict Neumann will reissue the KM84.... T minus 2 years from now.
By NAMM 2021.
Chris
Old 8th June 2019
  #159
Quote:
Originally Posted by bash View Post
The sad takeaway I pull from this thread is that the good KM84s are being held onto and the crap ones are exchanging hands for big money. ffs, Neumann, reissue them!
And there are NO substitutes!
Old 9th June 2019
  #160
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Are there no workhorses, for those in their poor houses?... (to paraphrase Charles Dickens)
Chris
Old 13th June 2019
  #161
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Using the same core components is always going to create a truer sound (such as the 2N3918 and the proper spec transformer). Neumann’s capsule was revolutionary in its day with the cross hatched backplate design. Many cheap imitations have not got a capsule that comes remotely close to this design.

It all starts with a decent capsule. And then using the same base components. After that, you can tweak some of the values of various components to tweak the sound. You can get close, but it’ll never be exactly the same.

Sebastiaan | MicMods Australia
www.micmods.com.au

Last edited by micmods; 14th June 2019 at 09:49 AM.. Reason: fix spelling mistake
Old 14th June 2019
  #162
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by micmods View Post
Using the same core components is always going to create a truer sound (such as the 2N3918 and the proper spec transformer). Neumann’s capsule was revolutionary in its day with the cross hatched backplate design. Many cheap imitations have not got a capsule that comes remotely close to this design.

It all starts with a decent capsule. And then using the same base components. After that, you can tweak some of the values of various components to tweak the sound. You can get close, but it’ll never be exactly the same.

Sebastiaan | MicMods Australia
www.micmods.com.au
So far the capsules I've found to be most reliable and closest sounding to the original are the ones used by a number of the better OEM models as pictured in attached image. Where they all fail is the circuitry. Most are a glorified Shoeps circuit.
Attached Thumbnails
Any new mic sounding similar to vintage km84-cap1.jpg   Any new mic sounding similar to vintage km84-cap2.jpg  

Last edited by micmods; 14th June 2019 at 09:49 AM.. Reason: fix spelling mistake
Old 14th June 2019
  #163
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That's interesting because the circuit appears to be quite simple and requires little more than quality components and a good transformer.
Old 14th June 2019
  #164
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by micmods View Post
So far the capsules I've found to be most reliable and closest sounding to the original are the ones used by a number of the better OEM models as pictured in attached image. Where they all fail is the circuitry. Most are a glorified Shoeps circuit.
I literally JUST discovered your 84 clones on Reverb!! I purchased another Australian brand’s SDC pair a week or so ago, but I think I’m going to purchase a pair of yours too and have all 4 of them as interchangeable pairs for drum OH’s and close mic’s on cymbals (hihat + ride).

I read your item description. Do you have a picture of the completed mic’s internals?
Old 14th June 2019
  #165
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreySlothStudio View Post
I literally JUST discovered your 84 clones on Reverb!! I purchased another Australian brand’s SDC pair a week or so ago, but I think I’m going to purchase a pair of yours too and have all 4 of them as interchangeable pairs for drum OH’s and close mic’s on cymbals (hihat + ride).

I read your item description. Do you have a picture of the completed mic’s internals?
Will get a couple of pictures to you soon.
Old 16th June 2019
  #166
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Meriphew's Avatar
 

I'd be surprised if Neumann doesn't reissue the KM-84 in the not too distant future.
Old 16th June 2019
  #167
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Oldone's Avatar
Reporting back on the Lewitt LCT 140 air mics. I would not say they are quite in the KM84 range but I didn't have a pair of the Neumann here to compare directly. I've used the 84s prior and would say there's a bit more upper end suspension of the signal from the Neumanns i.e. the magic glow of a good condenser mic. This as opposed to the spiky transits that the KM184 has, also more flat sounding, versus the KM84.

That said the Lewitt LCT 140 air mics did have a bit magic of their own more in the upper midrange and I definitely would rate them better than the KM184s in terms of natural sounding. In fact that's the most obvious characteristic of the Lewitt LCT 140 air mics, they have a very natural sound which has suspension of guitar frequencies and notes above B on the high E string and generally in that range up. Another characteristic is that they pull a rich and clear low end out of a guitar even with dull sounding strings. The have a pad switch, air lift (which pulled a little more transient action of the upper strings) as well as high pass filter. So I am a fan of these mics.

Contrast the Lewitt mics against the MC012 Oktavas, which I did have on hand, and they are considerably a better mic for capturing acoustic guitar. The Oktavas being less distinct and not as clear sounding. The Oktavas do have the 2-5k sparkle thing but it pails with its rounded low and midrange of that same mic versus the Lewitt which is more balanced and clear.

So, I would say the Lewitt LCT 140 air mics are an inexpensive alternative you could use if you can't afford the KM84. They are brilliant at their price point and about 90% of what the Neumann's offer vs about 75% of what the KM184s bring.
Old 16th June 2019
  #168
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toledo3's Avatar
 

Did you directly compare them against 184s or just memory?

Seems surprising that a transformerless electret like the Lewitt would end up anywhere close to a KM84, but that’s cool to hear.
Old 16th June 2019
  #169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meriphew View Post
I'd be surprised if Neumann doesn't reissue the KM-84 in the not too distant future.
...and charge $5K for a pair
Old 16th June 2019
  #170
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BIG BUDDHA's Avatar
the old silver AKG 451eb are lovely things, that i have used many times, in places where 84s often reside.

i still have a couple of the old ones. excellent mics.

Buddha
Old 16th June 2019
  #171
Gear Head
For anybody interested, my pair of O.P.R (Open Plan Recording) 84 microphones just arrived from Australia and will be able to post internal pics/external pics later tonight (around 11pm eastern US).

These are transformerless however there were a few interest-posts so I figured I’d help out whoever else was wondering about these.

Also - MicMods (also Australian) transformer coupled 84 clones are on my shortlist amongst AA CM47fet’s and a pair of 3U 127-C-Flats.
Old 17th June 2019
  #172
Deleted 691ca21
Guest
I had the 3U Warbler 127 C-Flat and O, and whilst they are great mics for the money, don't come that close to the KM84 in sound (I had them both to compare).
Old 17th June 2019
  #173
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG BUDDHA View Post
the old silver AKG 451eb are lovely things, that i have used many times, in places where 84s often reside.

i still have a couple of the old ones. excellent mics.

Buddha

I'd take a pair of old 414ebs over a pair of u87 every day of the week (y) wonderfully balanced and open sounding.
Old 17th June 2019
  #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG BUDDHA View Post
the old silver AKG 451eb are lovely things, that i have used many times, in places where 84s often reside.

i still have a couple of the old ones. excellent mics.

Buddha
well, you're recording and mixing analog if i remember right? - not much love (nor any need) for any mic with a hf bump when working digital here (and hardly ever when working analog either)...
Old 17th June 2019
  #175
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
well, you're recording and mixing analog if i remember right? - not much love (nor any need) for any mic with a hf bump when working digital here (and hardly ever when working analog either)...
My experience is that vintage is just the right kind of bright not what you'd hear in newly produced mics.

414eb sounds wonderful. My m269c sounds great and in my opinion better than the u67. Never harsh just open and great.
Old 17th June 2019
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crille_mannen View Post
My experience is that vintage is just the right kind of bright not what you'd hear in newly produced mics.

414eb sounds wonderful. My m269c sounds great and in my opinion better than the u67. Never harsh just open and great.
guess we all have our preferences; the 451 is just not amongst mine (unless i decide using its built-in eq on the way in - snare bottom may also be okay but in this position, almost any mic does)...
Old 17th June 2019
  #177
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Karloff70's Avatar
 

You guys are mixing up 451's and 414's.....lol
Old 17th June 2019
  #178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
You guys are mixing up 451's and 414's.....lol
I'm not

OR apparently I am haha.

I meant 414eb though. Wobderful mic

Last edited by crille_mannen; 17th June 2019 at 01:39 PM..
Old 17th June 2019
  #179
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG BUDDHA View Post
the old silver AKG 451eb are lovely things, that i have used many times, in places where 84s often reside.

i still have a couple of the old ones. excellent mics.
I tried the AKG 451eb, back in the days of tape. I thought they were soooo ridiculously bright and unnatural-sounding. The thought of recording digitally with one of these makes me shudder, gaaah !
Old 18th June 2019
  #180
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mutetourettes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldone View Post
So, I would say the Lewitt LCT 140 air mics are an inexpensive alternative you could use if you can't afford the KM84. They are brilliant at their price point and about 90% of what the Neumann's offer vs about 75% of what the KM184s bring.
which makes me wonder if there's a further % hidden in the Lewitt LCT 340 ??
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