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Any new mic sounding similar to vintage km84 Condenser Microphones
Old 22nd January 2018
  #31
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jwh1192's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
sorry, no pick, it's been 3 or 4 years ago...

if remember right, we were running a 3-5mm wide tape across tha capsule in order to prevent some direct sound getting to the capsule and maybe creating a 'bonsai early reflection' (we cut away some of the sticky adhesive where it was running atop the capsule).

we also tried applying tape just on on side which of course changed the pickup pattern in a weird way...

the other thing that worked was wrapping tape and velvet (i know, sounds weird) around the mic very close to the grill: think of the velvet as very small diffusor/absorber?!

the result was quite nice: we got rid of some of the hf bump yet could keep the advantage of the better spl handling and lower noise of km184's.

oh, to enhance the effect, we also used pop filters, but i wouldn't remember whether we left them on for recording? (for sure on the hi-hat, but there it stays always on)

haven't been doing this since as i switched to mostly schoeps and less neuheiser...
ok, thx for what you do remember .. makes some sense .. and Velvet - gives me a chance to go and mingle with the ladies at the Fabric Stores !! "Hey there Fabric Babe, how do you think this Velvet would feel against your Skin ??" .. "I mean on a microphone" ... wink wink
Old 22nd January 2018
  #32
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p.s. mics needed bit of external cleaning afterwards, but mics/capsules stayed fine
Old 22nd January 2018
  #33
Anybody heard these? Guy still around?

condenser microphone

All the Gefell offerings transformerless now.
Old 23rd January 2018
  #34
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[QUOTE=jwh1192;13089442] Velvet - gives me a chance to go and mingle with the ladies at the Fabric Stores/QUOTE]

'Black velvet and that little boy's smile.
Black velvet with that slow southern style.
A new religion that'll bring ya to your knees.
Black velvet if you please.'
Old 23rd January 2018
  #35
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jwh1192's Avatar
[QUOTE=deedeeyeah;13089469]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 View Post
Velvet - gives me a chance to go and mingle with the ladies at the Fabric Stores/QUOTE]

'Black velvet and that little boy's smile.
Black velvet with that slow southern style.
A new religion that'll bring ya to your knees.
Black velvet if you please.'
reading my sick mind !!!
Old 23rd January 2018
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWTON IN ORBIT View Post
Anybody heard these? Guy still around?

condenser microphone
looks interesting - however:
Self Noise 25dB SPL A weighted
ain't good...
Old 23rd January 2018
  #37
15 would be better. Yeah, maybe not for quiet sources.

and dba at that.
Old 23rd January 2018
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Stone View Post
The origin has been a nice surprise. Great on acoustic.

Maybe I'll give this little guy a go.
Old 23rd January 2018
  #39
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laperlestudio's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by brockorama View Post
The origin has been a nice surprise. Great on acoustic.

Maybe I'll give this little guy a go.
It looks like a nice mic, but I don't think it's the same kind of vibe.. right? More like a cool SDC, but not necessarily a vintage km84
Old 23rd January 2018
  #40
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brockorama's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by laperlestudio View Post
It looks like a nice mic, but I don't think it's the same kind of vibe.. right? More like a cool SDC, but not necessarily a vintage km84
Sorry for OT reply. Just responding to the Starlight reference made. As you were.
Old 23rd January 2018
  #41
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Troy Engle's Avatar
 

Closest I've found (in my price range) is a Sterling Audio ST-44 tube pencil condenser. Same as the Groove tubes, or Alesis badged ones. Has the clarity (without harshness) of the KM84, with that little hi/mid thickness, that the 84's have, that I love so much. To me the new KM184's are decent mics, but nowhere near the KM84's sonically.
Old 24th January 2018
  #42
I was wondering about that. A while back I contacted zenpro about the chameleon ts-1, which is sadly no longer made.

I loved the clips of it.

It was the only real stand out for me, out of all the mics there Maybe a couple of the chi zigma whatever mics were too.. Maybe not super clear, but at least different with some character. I don't need 12 mics that sound really similar, with tiny , subtle differences.

I have been avoiding the sterlin stuff, and I probably shouldn't.
Thank you man.
Old 24th January 2018
  #43
Not to get wayyyy OT, but has anybody tried the mojave tube sdc's?

Now you got me thinking.
We bought some cmc4s months back, and had that converted to p48 from t power, but I want something totally different.

We have enough to make records, would be cool to have some really cool, different sounding stuff for creativity purposes.
Old 24th January 2018
  #44
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antichef's Avatar
If transformerless SDCs are not off the table, it's worth checking out the Beyerdynamic MC930
Old 10th March 2018
  #45
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jpgerard's Avatar
I have a number of customers who picked Line Audio CM3's to take KM84 duties for orchestral recording as well as studio acoustic instrument and perc. tracking. Both were designed to be ruler flat. The CM3 has a wider sweet spot, it's less directional, but in therms of sound they're not miles apart. I suspect that engineers who use multiple CM3's on Classical sessions couldn't afford vintage 84's or Schoeps... which is of course an incentive, but first and foremost it's the linear response that does it.
Old 10th March 2018
  #46
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Thread Starter
I bought a pair of BeesNeez tube LULU. They are more like KM54 than 84, but I have to say I'm really impressed they really have the quality I was looking for in a km84 style mic, works reallly great on Guitars and Mandolins. I tried it on the Hi-hat too, that's a good sound. I still have more places to try it out, but I'm really not disapointed! I am still waiting on my omniball shipping, but I hope I can try them in omni soon.
Old 11th March 2018
  #47
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antichef's Avatar
Nice - I have a pair of the tube Lulus. I'm liking them a lot - next drum project I do I plan to try them on top and bottom snare. They don't sound much like my KM86 pair (that's as close as I get to KM84s) but sound great in their own way. I have not ever used a KM54

I also got a pair of omniballs - haven't tried them yet.
Old 11th March 2018
  #48
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kennybro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismercifulfate View Post
I have a pair of Pearls. I really wanted to like them, but so far I have not been impressed. I did an initial test with one against a KM84 on piano and shaker and in both cases I could hear a pretty hard rise in the top-end on the Pearls.
No, they are not 84's, that's a sure thing. $29 vs. a grand. I do find them useful in a lot of situations, but not usually where I'd put an 84. There's that pushy top end, which works oh-so-well on my voice in particular. I like it on darker acoustic guitars and nylons. Put one in front of an upright bass recently in combo with a LDC, and got a punchy track.

Haven't found anything that matches a good sounding old 84, but that's a slippery issue. As mentioned, a lot of old 84's don't sound all that good, and there's a lot of variation in how the better ones do sound. A guy had four of them for sale a few years back. I drove a long way to check them out, and came home with cash in pocket, no mics, very disappointed. They all sounded strangely EQ'd. Could have been the environment, but I didn't feel like gambling.

I have a pair of Studio Projects C4's that I'll use in similar situations, and a pair of Rode NT5's that I'll also use similarly. Not 84's for sure, but sometimes a close vibe, depending on room, source and song. Just used the Rodes last night on a project, and very much like the result. Not usually a fan of Rode mics in general.
Old 12th March 2018
  #49
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Tube Lulus
Attached Files

Lulu Tube.mp3 (2.57 MB, 1401 views)

Old 12th March 2018
  #50
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James Lehmann's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWTON IN ORBIT View Post
Doesn't Gefell make anything?
The Gefell M300s are sometimes mentioned as doppelgängers in KM84 threads, but in truth they are much brighter and lack the characteristic warmth and fullness of the KM84 magic.

Which is not to say they aren't extremely good SDCs in their own right, like so many of the other suggestions here.

Just not KM84s!
Old 13th March 2018
  #51
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DrSax's Avatar
Been on the fence about a pair of KM84’s for a while. If a manufacturer knocks it out of the park on a modern replacement that sounds that good, they’d be sitting on a gold mine. I hope someone gets it right soon.

Last edited by DrSax; 14th March 2018 at 06:38 AM..
Old 13th March 2018
  #52
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James Lehmann's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSax View Post
If a manufacturer knocks it out of the park on a modern replacement [for KM84s] that sounds that good, they’d be sitting on a gold mine.
Didn't Mercenary Audio do exactly that a while ago with their KM69?
Old 13th March 2018
  #53
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jpgerard's Avatar
It's probably going to be like with the U87 and now the U67, some will try, most will fail, some will get close, then Neumann will offer a genuine Re-Issue when the time is right and the public realizes that some things can't be done on the cheap. Now it's my opinion but I'm fairly sure a KM84 Re-Issue wouldn't cost a ton more than a 184... the transfo would add less than 200 bucks to the end user price, the main expense probably being the extra labour but it's not that bad either. Key components are the capsule of course and the transfo, the body wouldn't be a problem to copy (for another company), or to make again (for Neumann). Senn/Neumann probably wait a bit as good KM84's will probably go up in price still, and when it's high enough, they'll offer new ones at a reasonably inflated price. We see the U67 because good examples on the 2nd hand market fetch sizeable sums of money...
Old 13th March 2018
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lehmann View Post
Didn't Mercenary Audio do exactly that a while ago with their KM69?
Yeah they did / unfortunately they are not around anymore and used KM69’s are usually just as expensive as originals.
Old 13th March 2018
  #55
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matucha's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lehmann View Post
The Gefell M300s are sometimes mentioned as doppelgängers in KM84 threads, but in truth they are much brighter and lack the characteristic warmth and fullness of the KM84 magic.

Which is not to say they aren't extremely good SDCs in their own right, like so many of the other suggestions here.

Just not KM84s!
It's just a different tone/EQ curve. I wouldn't say M300 are brighter, it's just a different kind of bright, accenting 6k and not having much extension in the "superair" part of the spectrum. Both KM84 and M300 are kind of "light" sounding to me. So is Schoeps MK21. And I like them all .

I also have a pair of KM76 (had them for a long time, KM84 are much newer addition to my miclocker). They are very similar, while KM84 is a touch rounder and saturated sounding. I guess it's the transformer (missing in KM76). KM76 are a tiny tiny bit cleaner and extended on the both sides of the spectrum while KM84 sounds more compact.
What I don't really get with the KM84 wanna-be-clones is they often add "but a bit brighter for that modern sound". Unless your mic placement (or the instrument) sucks KM84 is as bright as it gets without sounding top heavy. I'd even say that 1% of extension that KM76 has makes it 1% less desirable in most cases.

The only thing that I'd want "modernized" in KM84 is the noise. It's not a problem, though for really quiet performances it's def there. The same goes to KM76 and M300, to some extent to Schoeps too. They are nowhere near Sennheiser MKHx0. And MKHs really sound different.
Old 13th March 2018
  #56
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Sigma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSax View Post
Been in the fence about a pair of KM84’s for a while. If a manufacturer knocks it out of the park on a modern replacement that sounds that good, they’d be sitting on a gold mine. I hope someone gets it right soon.
yeah i's pretty bizarre how Nuemann fawked that one up..what the hell were they thinking? when i put up a 184 i coouldn't believe how brittle and unmusical it sounded..plus no 10dB pad ????

my 84 had to go thru 3 solvent baths but it's like new now..i'd think you could find one cheap that someone thinks the cap is bad ion when most times it's bad grounding to chassis
Old 13th March 2018
  #57
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Well it's seems because the "chain" had so many more steps back then -- with pres, faders, inserts, bussses, and so on and each adding something to the sound, that having a slightly brighter source was desired so the outcome was kinda like what a km84 that is going through a pre to converters would be like now. This is a generalization, I know.

Does anyone know specidfacally why the 84 was discontinued following the introduction of 184?
Old 13th March 2018
  #58
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matucha's Avatar
The way KM84 is "light" is really useful in many situations. Esp. how it integrates in the mix and doesn't step over the bass/lowmids, so you don't have to cut (too much). I think it's appeal is that it does that in combination of being very even/linear sounding. On the other hand there is nothing magical about it, ~$1000-1200 pricepoint is pushing it, but it's still kind of reasonable. Anything more than that and I don't think it's worth it.
Old 13th March 2018
  #59
din
Gear Nut
 

Sorry to ask a newb question, but why doesn't Neumann just make KM84's again? Clearly everybody still wants them. I don't understand.
Personally, I've used both as overheads. I thought the KM184 sounded fine, but the KM84 sounded awesome.
Old 13th March 2018
  #60
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Sigma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carabinerx View Post
Well it's seems because the "chain" had so many more steps back then -- with pres, faders, inserts, bussses, and so on and each adding something to the sound, that having a slightly brighter source was desired so the outcome was kinda like what a km84 that is going through a pre to converters would be like now. This is a generalization, I know.

Does anyone know specidfacally why the 84 was discontinued following the introduction of 184?

i thought the 184 was their "reissue " of the KM 84
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