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help. tried everything. still ground noise in the monitors Monitor Controllers
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1
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help. tried everything. still ground noise in the monitors

having high pitched noise in the speakers that I cannot get rid of.

I have 2 separate power circuits in the studio.
tried having everything on one circuit, and mixing and matching gear between 2 circuits. no luck.

tried different audio cards (RME, Focusrite, now Steinberg). no luck.
all interconnects are mogami gold balanced cables.

made sure all gear is grounded (except interface and monitor controller which have ac adapter).

everything is going thru furman power conditioners. I even put computer, audio interface and monitor controller on 'digital components' and tried different variations between PC, interface and monitor controller on 'digital components' no luck.

also tool long wire inserted it into ground prong, and tried touching to metal casings of interface, monitor controller, shields on cables etc. no luck.

nothing else I can think of.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2
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this is the noise changing at different buffer settings
Attached Files

pc noise in speakers.mp3 (1.43 MB, 451 views)

Old 2 weeks ago
  #3
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I guess all this audiophilery like power conditioners and balanced cables is just snake oil.
Old 1 week ago
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I guess just try hooking one thing up at a time, adding one piece of gear at a time to see if the there's something causing it. Or maybe there's something going on with the ac in the building your'e in.
Old 1 week ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TS-12 View Post
having high pitched noise in the speakers that I cannot get rid of.

I have 2 separate power circuits in the studio.
tried having everything on one circuit, and mixing and matching gear between 2 circuits. no luck.

tried different audio cards (RME, Focusrite, now Steinberg). no luck.
all interconnects are mogami gold balanced cables.

made sure all gear is grounded (except interface and monitor controller which have ac adapter).

everything is going thru furman power conditioners. I even put computer, audio interface and monitor controller on 'digital components' and tried different variations between PC, interface and monitor controller on 'digital components' no luck.

also tool long wire inserted it into ground prong, and tried touching to metal casings of interface, monitor controller, shields on cables etc. no luck.
i would try hooking things up without the computer powered up .. if you can .. the computer interferrence might be coming through your system .. may i ask, if you move your move around while listening does the sound chnage or follow along with your movements ?? as vernier is saying, eliminate as many things as you can - narrow it down ..
Old 1 week ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vernier View Post
I guess just try hooking one thing up at a time, adding one piece of gear at a time to see if the there's something causing it. Or maybe there's something going on with the ac in the building your'e in.
Tried that. Have it right now at the quiestest but still the noise is very annoying and audible
Old 1 week ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 View Post
i would try hooking things up without the computer powered up .. if you can .. the computer interferrence might be coming through your system .. may i ask, if you move your move around while listening does the sound chnage or follow along with your movements ?? as vernier is saying, eliminate as many things as you can - narrow it down ..
If daw isnt open yes mouse movements cause noise. But when I open any daw the noise is constant.

The noise goes away if either I turn off a computer or sound card or presonus monitor station or all speakers.

Strange that the noise is in all monitors (ns10s, Adam P11A and jbl lsr308)
Old 1 week ago
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Originally Posted by TS-12 View Post
If daw isnt open yes mouse movements cause noise. But when I open any daw the noise is constant.

The noise goes away if either I turn off a computer or sound card or presonus monitor station or all speakers.

Strange that the noise is in all monitors (ns10s, Adam P11A and jbl lsr308)
need to narrow it down farther ... sounds like it might be a ground issue with your sound card inside the computer .. i should ask what exact sound cards are you testing ???
Old 1 week ago
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also if I unplug the audio cables from jbl lsr308 monitors the noise gets much quieter.
Or when I touch the tip or ring of the cables going to jbls with my finger the noise sounds the same as when they are plugged.
Swapped different cables. Tried XLR and trs inputs still no luck.


I thought of putting transformers on the audio cables going to the speakers. but that will color the sound alittle ?

Or put isoltaio transformers on power going to computer and speakers. But furman already has transformers on 'digital components' outlets.
Old 1 week ago
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Originally Posted by jwh1192 View Post
need to narrow it down farther ... sounds like it might be a ground issue with your sound card inside the computer .. i should ask what exact sound cards are you testing ???
Had motu (FireWire) ultralite before this one and rme Babyface (USB) before motu.

Now using steinberg ur44 (USB)
Old 1 week ago
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Originally Posted by TS-12 View Post
Had motu (FireWire) ultralite before this one and rme Babyface (USB) before motu.

Now using steinberg ur44 (USB)
all USB right ?? ... hmm ... have you tried them in a USB Hub ?? just thinking out loud

what comuputer are you using .. i see win 7
Old 1 week ago
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Originally Posted by jwh1192 View Post
all USB right ?? ... hmm ... have you tried them in a USB Hub ?? just thinking out loud

what comuputer are you using .. i see win 7
Didn't try USB hub. Will try.

Custom built win7 x64 PC:
Asus p6t Mobo. i7-920 (1st Gen) overclocked cpu to 2.9ghz. Kensington ram 24gb.
3 internal ssd drives.
Old 1 week ago
  #13
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Is it connected to a network or wifi? Is the router in same room? Try shutting off video monitor, too. How close is the monitor to your speakers. Any fluorescent lights nearby?
Old 1 week ago
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Your "snake oil" has nothing to do with your balanced cables or power conditioners. Balanced cables are much more useful than unbalanced in isolating grounding issues. You've got a good old fashioned grounding issue that's presenting in HF hash it sounds like. Make sure all your wiring is telescoped with the ground shield lifted at the speaker end. The HF indicates that it's most likely in your computer, (especially as it's custom built) or the computer perhiperals such as your interface(s), sound card, etc..

Read the links below, understand them, and implement the principles and you'll be able to find and fix the problem. Good luck. Conversely, you can hire someone to come in and troubleshoot and fix it for you. Although essential simple - one path to ground only - it is one of the most frustrating, interactively PITA issues with studio builds. Once upon a time, everyone knew these principles, or had someone on staff or on call who did. Interfacing in the analog world is a lost art.

http://web.mit.edu/~jhawk/tmp/p/EST0...ps_handout.pdf
http://www.jensen-transformers.com/w...ic-Version.pdf
http://www.bennettprescott.com/downl...g_tutorial.pdf
http://www.jhbrandt.net/wp-content/u...itlock-Fox.pdf
Old 1 week ago
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Originally Posted by mamm7215 View Post
Is it connected to a network or wifi? Is the router in same room? Try shutting off video monitor, too. How close is the monitor to your speakers. Any fluorescent lights nearby?
Connected by Ethernet cable. Tried it disconnected. Router is on another floor. Tried turning off display / monitor. No fluorescent lights. But lighting circuit is on its own circuit saparate from the 2 power circuits for outlets.
Old 1 week ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Your "snake oil" has nothing to do with your balanced cables or power conditioners. Balanced cables are much more useful than unbalanced in isolating grounding issues. You've got a good old fashioned grounding issue that's presenting in HF hash it sounds like. Make sure all your wiring is telescoped with the ground shield lifted at the speaker end. The HF indicates that it's most likely in your computer, (especially as it's custom built) or the computer perhiperals such as your interface(s), sound card, etc..

Read the links below, understand them, and implement the principles and you'll be able to find and fix the problem. Good luck. Conversely, you can hire someone to come in and troubleshoot and fix it for you. Although essential simple - one path to ground only - it is one of the most frustrating, interactively PITA issues with studio builds. Once upon a time, everyone knew these principles, or had someone on staff or on call who did. Interfacing in the analog world is a lost art.

http://web.mit.edu/~jhawk/tmp/p/EST0...ps_handout.pdf
http://www.jensen-transformers.com/w...ic-Version.pdf
http://www.bennettprescott.com/downl...g_tutorial.pdf
http://www.jhbrandt.net/wp-content/u...itlock-Fox.pdf
Thank you I read lots and lots of material on ground loops in fact I have associates degree in electrical and electronics. And grounding and electrical was my number one concern when I built this home studio.
But I will read the links you posted again.

Can you expand alittle on
"Make sure all your wiring is telescoped with the ground shield lifted at the speaker end" ?
Old 1 week ago
  #17
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so all the experts here, someone has to know what can this be
Old 1 week ago
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This is the recording of the nosies at
different buffers:
Attached Files

pc noise in speakers.mp3 (1.43 MB, 733 views)

Old 1 week ago
  #19
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Have you tried with a different PC?
Old 1 week ago
  #20
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Originally Posted by miradoclassic View Post
Have you tried with a different PC?
That was my thought....I'm using 2 tdm systems on the same circuit, one whisper quiet and the other like you are experiencing...It doesn't record the noise but it's unbearable to use beyond tracking...I've got it narrowed down to either the core card or the Mac itself....moon
Old 1 week ago
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TS-12 View Post
Can you expand alittle on
"Make sure all your wiring is telescoped with the ground shield lifted at the speaker end" ?
Studio grounding 101. The basics - no balanced audio cable has the shield attached at BOTH ends. It's in the documents. ONE path to ground.
Old 1 week ago
  #22
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cable shields

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Studio grounding 101. The basics - no balanced audio cable has the shield attached at BOTH ends. It's in the documents. ONE path to ground.
Studio grounding 101: what university?
bedroom studio basics ?
the topic has been discussed Ad nauseam.
https://www.resolutionmag.com/wp-con...nd-shields.pdf
Old 1 week ago
  #23
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Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Studio grounding 101. The basics - no balanced audio cable has the shield attached at BOTH ends. It's in the documents. ONE path to ground.
wow after all these years in audio industry I thought only monster cables have one end shielded on balanced cables. [major facepalm]

so the shielded grounds should only be at the “start” of the signal (input side of the cable that connects to output) on all balanced cables ?
Old 1 week ago
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Reading these articles from rane about connecting balanced and unbalanced inputs and outputs.

I’m really confused about signal and chassis grounding it talks about. In some cases they write its good to have just signals grounded in others cold grounded (connected to shield) i others to have one side grounded signal and shield etc etc.

But my all inputs and outputs are all balanced.


Sound System Interconnection

Grounding and Shielding Audio Devices

http://www.rane.com/note151.html

https://www.presonus.com/learn/techn...ced-unbalanced

Last edited by TS-12; 1 week ago at 06:17 AM..
Old 1 week ago
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Old 1 week ago
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Old 1 week ago
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Old 1 week ago
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Old 1 week ago
  #29
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Originally Posted by TS-12 View Post
So motherboard needs to be isolated from from computer case chassis ground and other grounds ???
The motherboard needs to be installed properly, with the correct number of stand-off screws and spacers.

Could be a bad batch of motherboards though; lots of people complaining.

Do you have another machine you test with?
Old 1 week ago
  #30
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You need to start simple and work backwards. Find a setup that works. Does playing a battery powered device i.e. ipod/iphone plugged directly into one speaker only work without noise? Ok, what about both? Ok, then through the monitor controller?

I'd also advise to to start with all mains grounds in place (don't lift these), and all conditioners and isolators removed. Find the root cause then it will be simple to fix. If it's just when the PC is connected then this can be fixed simply and easily, but you don't want to guess.
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