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HW Worth Owning for Mixing Hybrid?
Old 17th September 2017
  #1
HW Worth Owning for Mixing Hybrid?

I know this can be interpreted as very open-ended, so let me clarify and be more specific.

I mixed all ITB for the last year or so and, after many a/b tests, returned to the conclusion that some HW is greatly beneficial over plugs.

For example, I recently shot-out the original Focusrite Red 3 against the VBC-Red and FF Red 3 plug and the HW results were revelatory and gratifying. The HW gave me everything I was missing from the ITB plugin... depth, width, separation. I also, have been inserting my Dolby A301 on a vocal parallel (plugins sound wicked harsh in comparison), Serpent Audio Spice MKII's on lead & bgv over the UAD 1176's.

My thought was that I would continue a/b'ing various pieces of HW against the plugs and where there is a noticeable improvement, make the switch back to HW. In no way do I want or plan to go all HW... just key pieces.

Next search is for my 2-buss eq... which I've been using either the UAD Pultec or Massive Passive. That one can be expensive as I really have my eye on the Pulse. I've listened to enough files of the Warm to know I don't want it. AML may be a cost-effictive option.

So.... Here's the question...

For those that have experience with mixing Hybrid, what pieces do you find MOST beneficial to use HW?

Dynamics?
EQs?
FX?

Thanks in advance for any thoughtful feedback.
Old 17th September 2017
  #2
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlesicily View Post
I know this can be interpreted as very open-ended, so let me clarify and be more specific.

I mixed all ITB for the last year or so and, after many a/b tests, returned to the conclusion that some HW is greatly beneficial over plugs.

For example, I recently shot-out the original Focusrite Red 3 against the VBC-Red and FF Red 3 plug and the HW results were revelatory and gratifying. The HW gave me everything I was missing from the ITB plugin... depth, width, separation. I also, have been inserting my Dolby A301 on a vocal parallel (plugins sound wicked harsh in comparison), Serpent Audio Spice MKII's on lead & bgv over the UAD 1176's.

My thought was that I would continue a/b'ing various pieces of HW against the plugs and where there is a noticeable improvement, make the switch back to HW. In no way do I want or plan to go all HW... just key pieces.

Next search is for my 2-buss eq... which I've been using either the UAD Pultec or Massive Passive. That one can be expensive as I really have my eye on the Pulse. I've listened to enough files of the Warm to know I don't want it. AML may be a cost-effictive option.

So.... Here's the question...


For those that have experience with mixing Hybrid, what pieces do you find MOST beneficial to use HW?

Dynamics?
EQs?
FX?

Thanks in advance for any thoughtful feedback.
I'd be looking at the Silver Bullet for an incredible flexible box.

EQ wise the Avalon 2055 has just been made obsolete and it's one of my ultimate favourites. There may be some great "open box" deals floating around.

Retro 2A3 if you want stereo "Pultec" style valve?

OTO FX are great but you can stay ITB for most FX.

Dynamics would be high end Vari Mu & VCA. Plenty to choose from. Check the mastering forum.
Old 17th September 2017 | Show parent
  #3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_G View Post
I'd be looking at the Silver Bullet for an incredible flexible box.

EQ wise the Avalon 2055 has just been made obsolete and it's one of my ultimate favourites. There may be some great "open box" deals floating around.

Retro 2A3 if you want stereo "Pultec" style valve?

OTO FX are great but you can stay ITB for most FX.

Dynamics would be high end Vari Mu & VCA. Plenty to choose from. Check the mastering forum.
Paul, thanks!

Yes, I wanna demo the Silver Bullet.
I didn't think about the 2055 but great idea.
Retro 2a3... I'm told is "very" colored... in a...well..."retro" way and I do mostly pop. Not sure it's the right color but will try and demo.

Btw, ur music sounds great on ur soundcloud
Old 17th September 2017 | Show parent
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_G View Post
I'd be looking at the Silver Bullet for an incredible flexible box.
Do you use the Silver Bullet?
Old 17th September 2017
  #5
Lives for gear
 

There is a great Silver Bullet thread on the site. It has so much useful information. I am on the silver bullet fence right now.
Old 17th September 2017
  #6
Lives for gear
 
cheu78's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlesicily View Post
I know this can be interpreted as very open-ended, so let me clarify and be more specific.

I mixed all ITB for the last year or so and, after many a/b tests, returned to the conclusion that some HW is greatly beneficial over plugs.

For example, I recently shot-out the original Focusrite Red 3 against the VBC-Red and FF Red 3 plug and the HW results were revelatory and gratifying. The HW gave me everything I was missing from the ITB plugin... depth, width, separation. I also, have been inserting my Dolby A301 on a vocal parallel (plugins sound wicked harsh in comparison), Serpent Audio Spice MKII's on lead & bgv over the UAD 1176's.

My thought was that I would continue a/b'ing various pieces of HW against the plugs and where there is a noticeable improvement, make the switch back to HW. In no way do I want or plan to go all HW... just key pieces.

Next search is for my 2-buss eq... which I've been using either the UAD Pultec or Massive Passive. That one can be expensive as I really have my eye on the Pulse. I've listened to enough files of the Warm to know I don't want it. AML may be a cost-effictive option.

So.... Here's the question...

For those that have experience with mixing Hybrid, what pieces do you find MOST beneficial to use HW?

Dynamics?
EQs?
FX?

Thanks in advance for any thoughtful feedback.
I love what HW does on the 2bus.
Red3 is very nice indeed, for an eq look at custom audio germany, their sontec 250 is stellar imho. Highly reccomended.



Cheu
Old 17th September 2017 | Show parent
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlesicily View Post
Do you use the Silver Bullet?
Of course. I even master with it. It sounds beautiful.

Thanks for the compliments, my sound cloud page is just for mucking around with ideas, the Spotify link is my back catalogue.

Cheers

Paul
Old 17th September 2017
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
Petermix's Avatar
My $.02

Plug-ins have surgical EQ covered, but Pultecs for mojo are a must - I have a bunch iterations (Klark-Teknik, Warm, A-Design 500) but a Pair of Pulse is in my near future.

For Time & Modulation effects, plug ins also have it covered, although a Bricasti is also in my near future.

However, when it comes to compression, the real thing is a must for me. I have compression galore and loving it.

For the 2 buss, I have been following the Silver Bullet thread closely, but for now I'm pretty happy with my chain: Burl B32 -> Phoenix Audio DRSQ4 mkII -> RJR VCA Buss Comp (with sidechain filter; parallel blend control and switchable output transformers)

Hope this helps!
Old 17th September 2017 | Show parent
  #9
Lives for gear
 
BradM's Avatar
@ Mister Karloff
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlesicily View Post
Paul, thanks!

Yes, I wanna demo the Silver Bullet.
I didn't think about the 2055 but great idea.
Retro 2a3... I'm told is "very" colored... in a...well..."retro" way and I do mostly pop. Not sure it's the right color but will try and demo.
Hi,

Now is a great time to demo the Silver Bullet since I finally have a demo unit available again. Technically there are two ways to demo a Silver Bullet. All new units have a 14 day return period. If you don't dig, you can simply return it for a full refund. Or you can sign up for a demo unit and only pay one-way shipping up front. This will be a used/B-stock/demo unit so it may have some minor wear. You have 14 days to try it out. If you decide to keep it, only then do get charged. If you aren't thrilled then return shipping is on us.

Here's the full details on the demo program:

https://store.louderthanliftoff.com/...er-bullet-demo

If anyone has any questions about how the Silver Bullet works, what it does, or how to best use it in your setup feel free to give me a call and I'd be happy to chat. Or if you'd like me to run some of your music through the unit I'd be happy to do that, too.

thanks,
Brad
Old 17th September 2017
  #10
Lives for gear
 
turk sanchez's Avatar
I think this sort of thing is totally subjective. So many different opinions on this. I'd say any units you feel you can't work without. What's popular in here may or may not work for you. For instance, everyone raves about mjuc but I have spent a lot of time trying it out and it just doesn't do it for me. I've got a Chandler Zener that most on here say is too colored for mix buss, but I love it there! Gotta figure these things out by trial and error and trust your own ears/taste.
Old 17th September 2017
  #11
More thoughts...
The Wes Audio Dione and Mimas are both worth their weight in gold. Great automated VCA and Fet there. If I was building a hybrid rig right now I'd be getting the best sounding DAW controlled recallable 500 units.
Plus a used Thermionic Phoenix or Vari Mu, Silver Bullet and a quality stereo eq. All this would be a huge step up for starters.
There are some amazing mastering grade plug ins for transparent eq and dynamics. DMG, Nugen, Fabfilter etc.
I'm also a big fan of the Softube Console 1 for hybrid mixing.
Old 17th September 2017 | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
BradM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_G View Post
More thoughts...

I'm also a big fan of the Softube Console 1 for hybrid mixing.
Tell me more about the Softube Console, Paul. I'm really curious about this thing.

Brad
Old 17th September 2017 | Show parent
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradM View Post
Tell me more about the Softube Console, Paul. I'm really curious about this thing.

Brad
It's a full virtual channel strip with a USB controller. So far they have a few different flavours including SSL, Neve and you can mix and match UAD modules if you have them.

I like it for ITB mixing because it's tactile and I can close my eyes and it feels like real mixing. For instance with a well thought out template I can mix in a fraction of the time.
Old 17th September 2017 | Show parent
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petermix View Post
Plug-ins have surgical EQ covered, but Pultecs for mojo are a must - I have a bunch iterations (Klark-Teknik, Warm, A-Design 500) but a Pair of Pulse is in my near future.

For Time & Modulation effects, plug ins also have it covered, although a Bricasti is also in my near future.

However, when it comes to compression, the real thing is a must for me. I have compression galore and loving it.

For the 2 buss, I have been following the Silver Bullet thread closely, but for now I'm pretty happy with my chain: Burl B32 -> Phoenix Audio DRSQ4 mkII -> RJR VCA Buss Comp (with sidechain filter; parallel blend control and switchable output transformers)

Hope this helps!
Petermix… that does help, a lot. Thanks!

Agree on plugins for surgical eq and delay, mods.

Yes, HW comps rule… the plugins seem to just flatten things out without the breath and life of HW. Kinda 2d vs 3d.

Would you care to elaborator on the Pultec options you have, how they excel or not on 2buss… and I'm assuming if u still want the Pulse after owning the others… something lacking in the clones?
Old 17th September 2017 | Show parent
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by turk sanchez View Post
I think this sort of thing is totally subjective. So many different opinions on this. I'd say any units you feel you can't work without. What's popular in here may or may not work for you. For instance, everyone raves about mjuc but I have spent a lot of time trying it out and it just doesn't do it for me. I've got a Chandler Zener that most on here say is too colored for mix buss, but I love it there! Gotta figure these things out by trial and error and trust your own ears/taste.
Agreed… and that's been my mission for the past month. So far, I found I couldn't do without HW on 2 buss comp (Red 3), inserts of Dolby A301 and a pair of Spice MKIIs (1176) for vocals.
Next I'm gonna a/b HW 2buss EQ, various opto comps for gtrs and vocals.
Old 17th September 2017 | Show parent
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_G View Post
If I was building a hybrid rig right now I'd be getting the best sounding DAW controlled recallable 500 units.
I didn't even know these kinds of products have entered the market. This is great news. Hopefully, more manufacturers will follow.
I'm not a big 500-series fan but this is enticing.
Old 18th September 2017
  #17
Lives for gear
 
Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

If I was doing this now I'd be looking for the following
Dbx 160x w Jim Williams mod
1176 type of compressor.( wes audio, real Urei if you can justify, purple, hairball or mohog)
Stereo tube compressor ( mu type)
Pultec type tube eq
Neve preamp and eq (Aml 500 series)

Don't feel compelled to spend it all at once when kitting out. The above is a solid start and will allow you to make good tunes. After you get to know that kit you'll be in a better position to make a more informed purchase in terms of what you might need next.
Old 18th September 2017 | Show parent
  #18
Lives for gear
 
BradM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_G View Post
It's a full virtual channel strip with a USB controller. So far they have a few different flavours including SSL, Neve and you can mix and match UAD modules if you have them.

I like it for ITB mixing because it's tactile and I can close my eyes and it feels like real mixing. For instance with a well thought out template I can mix in a fraction of the time.
I had no idea it was capable of controlling UAD stuff. So does it work with all the UAD plugins or just certain ones. I think I'll have to go watch some videos. I'm intrigued.

Thanks!
Brad
Old 18th September 2017 | Show parent
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradM View Post
@ Mister Karloff
Hi,

Now is a great time to demo the Silver Bullet
thanks,
Brad
Brad, when will you have the SILVER BULLET - VOID CORP EDITION available?
Old 18th September 2017 | Show parent
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggy Neve Slut View Post
If I was doing this now I'd be looking for the following
Dbx 160x w Jim Williams mod
1176 type of compressor.( wes audio, real Urei if you can justify, purple, hairball or mohog)
Stereo tube compressor ( mu type)
Pultec type tube eq
Neve preamp and eq (Aml 500 series)

Don't feel compelled to spend it all at once when kitting out. The above is a solid start and will allow you to make good tunes. After you get to know that kit you'll be in a better position to make a more informed purchase in terms of what you might need next.
I already have a pair of 1176's, STA-Level, RED 3 and few others.
Working on the 2buss eq next... gonna demo Pultec originals, Retro 2a3, AML ezp1a... and possibly the Silver Bullet for 2buss use as well.
Old 19th September 2017
  #21
Deleted 99dc753
Guest
Best of both worlds here too it depends what works best so you have to try it yourself.
Start with low end hw and learn wich pieces are cheap sleepers.

The older behringer MDX 1000 are sleepers and good DBX clones.
ART PRO VLA II you can get him for cheap on e-bay.

Today there is no real bad gear anymore.
Most of it is decent stuff and you will find its spot.
Old 19th September 2017 | Show parent
  #22
Lives for gear
 
BradM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlesicily View Post
Brad, when will you have the SILVER BULLET - VOID CORP EDITION available?
Hi!

I just emailed you (I think that was you). I now have some available in my store.

Brad
Old 19th September 2017 | Show parent
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradM View Post
Hi!

I just emailed you (I think that was you). I now have some available in my store.

Brad
Yup, that was me.
Old 19th September 2017 | Show parent
  #24
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by turk sanchez View Post
I'd say any units you feel you can't work without.

Agreed. For me, that's my 5 Silver Bullets (I am a tiny bit biased), a pair of Chroma's with the implode 1176's installed, Serpent Splices, 4001's & 3a's, API 550A's, a Bricasti, and my Manley Vari-Mu. Those are on almost every mix.

Beyond that, there's a whole TON of other stuff I don't want to mix without though, but those are the biggies. I'm running 80 channels (96 next month) of i/o to get it all into the DAW.


@ littlesicily - Sal - before you pull an EQ trigger, you MUST try the EQ on the SB. For 2 bus duties, it does everything I could want, and then some. So sweet. If you need more carving style EQ, then it's not right. Shouldn't be overlooked though.

PS - sent your clips back to you.
Old 19th September 2017 | Show parent
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggy Neve Slut View Post
If I was doing this now I'd be looking for the following
Dbx 160x w Jim Williams mod
.
What uses do u like for the dbx160x?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
@ littlesicily - Sal - before you pull an EQ trigger, you MUST try the EQ on the SB. For 2 bus duties, it does everything I could want, and then some. So sweet. If you need more carving style EQ, then it's not right. Shouldn't be overlooked though.

PS - sent your clips back to you.
Bill, I just put in an order for the Void Corp SB. Gonna demo along side other 2buss units, though I realize the SB is a different unit than just EQ. Will see what makes the great impact as I'm adding 1-2 pieces at a time.

Yes, got the files and emailed you back. Many thanks!!
Old 19th September 2017 | Show parent
  #26
Lives for gear
 
turk sanchez's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Agreed. For me, that's my 5 Silver Bullets (I am a tiny bit biased), a pair of Chroma's with the implode 1176's installed, Serpent Splices, 4001's & 3a's, API 550A's, a Bricasti, and my Manley Vari-Mu. Those are on almost every mix.

Sounds like a great setup, Man!

I have gone through so much gear. There are def plugs I can't do w/out too! I LOVE TDR Nova, DMG Limitless, I've been using the Duende Channel Strip for YEARS and really like it. I love the Valahalla stuff for FX...and some of the Soundtoys too.

On the Analog front, I used to have WAY more stuff, but I have it down to just a couple really great units now. A Hendy Amps Michelangelo and a Chandler Zener.

I thought about the original post/question: "What hardware is worth owning for mixing hybrid"? I think the real answer is "anything that makes enough difference in the end result so that other people (that have no idea what gear was used or don't care) think that the mix sounds better.
Old 19th September 2017 | Show parent
  #27
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlesicily View Post
Bill, I just put in an order for the Void Corp SB. Gonna demo along side other 2buss units, though I realize the SB is a different unit than just EQ. Will see what makes the great impact as I'm adding 1-2 pieces at a time.

Yes, got the files and emailed you back. Many thanks!!
Awesome!!! Check out the manual for work flows and ways to implement it into your workflows. Shout out if I can be of any help.
Old 19th September 2017 | Show parent
  #28
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by turk sanchez View Post
I thought about the original post/question: "What hardware is worth owning for mixing hybrid"? I think the real answer is "anything that makes enough difference in the end result so that other people (that have no idea what gear was used or don't care) think that the mix sounds better.
I think you're right on your assessment. Those pieces that your clients ask for next time they walk thru the door. Those are money in the bank. I had a couple of clients keep asking for "that thing on the piece of plywood with all the wires coming out of it" when I had a prototype Silver Bullet on my console. It brought them back in. The Bricasti and 480L and Vari-Mu get/got similar requests.

A big LFAC console is always a show stopper too.
Old 19th September 2017
  #29
So the dbx 160a and Art Pro VLA ii... really??
These would be better than a high-quality plugin?
If so, in what uses?
Old 19th September 2017 | Show parent
  #30
Lives for gear
 
BradM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
A big LFAC console is always a show stopper too.
Wouldn't it be the opposite of a show stopper?

Brad
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