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New life for your monitors - amazing product!!
Old 13th February 2004
  #1
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Dot's Avatar
New life for your monitors

http://www.dhcones.com/cones.html

I have the DH Cones here. These ceramic cones isolate the monitors from vibrations. The ones I have are Supers. This is no bull****. There is a vast difference with them under my monitors. I have a pair of Dynaudio AIR 15's in digital mode and a pair of KRK V8's running off a DAC1.

This is not like a little bit of difference. The imagery becomes significantly more defined with much more depth. The bass tightens up. The mids become more clear. The entire soundfield sits more right in the air in the room. The tails on reverb become more pronounced.

I've been performing lots of experiments, also with high-grade AC cable. There are many practices the audiophile community can teach the recording studio community if you're open.

Anyone with what they think are a pair of quality monitors owes it to themselves to pick up a pair of these DH Cones sets.

I can not recommend these highly enough!!
Old 13th February 2004
  #2
Gear Guru
 

I am not knocking the concept or your results, I would love to try them, but they are too expensive. Unless they are made out of solid gold, $100 for 3 of these is absurd. (and then you need 3 more for the other speaker?)

Whatever space-age ceramic they are made out of, some smart guy should be able to make something just/almost as good for ten bucks.

I am not one of those guys who thinks that ALL the audiophile stuff is Snake Oil. I could see that the audiophile community may indeed have something to teach the recording community, but I also think they have something to learn from us in terms of value for the dollar.
Old 13th February 2004
  #3
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Saucyjack's Avatar
 

$100 for 3...I felt bad paying 30 bucks for the Auralex Mopads.

I bet these are simply decoupling the monitors from the stands...I'm sure you hear an improvement but a throwaway mousepad would probably do the same thing.
Old 13th February 2004
  #4
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bigbaby987's Avatar
get some mopads from aurelex...they follow the same concept, sound very good and only $30 for a set of monitors!!!
Old 13th February 2004
  #5
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Stick's Avatar
 

Yeah, that was going to be my question... has anyone directly compared the fancy cones to the MoPads? Are the cones much better?

I like my MoPads... made a nice difference.
Old 13th February 2004
  #6
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dhughes's Avatar
 

And even cheaper: take some auralex 1*1 room treatment foam, stack 'em up, and put your monitors on it. I've got about six inches of foam underneath my monitors and it kills any vibration off the desk.
Old 13th February 2004
  #7
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dave-G's Avatar
If I'm not mistaken, the concept behind these ceramic cones, and brass cones (also popular within audiophilia) is for more efficient coupling between the cabinet and the stand, to have them "as one" rather than one vibrates, and the other vibrates "later".... I dunno... I thought I heard it described to me that way by some cable-tweaking, green-marker-toting dweeb at some point... Anyway, the MoPad concept is the opposite, to decouple the cabinet from your stand/meterbridge.

As to which approach is better for audio performance?

Hellifiknow.

-dave
Old 13th February 2004
  #8
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dhughes's Avatar
 

Ah. So now we are all going have to go out and buy new desks and stands that have good resonant properties. Do you think particle board will sound good, if so I'm in luck? He he.

Interesting idea anyway....
Old 13th February 2004
  #9
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Dot's Avatar
I've used all kinds of foam, Mo Pad, half-cut tennis balls and different materials under monitors. I have used brass cones with good success. [link--->] Michael Green Audio has sets of 3 brass cones for $68.

Using foam has nothing on these ceramic cones.

If you've got $500 in your monitors, I'm not expecting people to fork out for $33 cones. But if you have $1K-$4K+ in your monitors, these cones will simply give you a considerably better and more accurate monitoring experience. I don't think $200 is to much to ask for the amount of dramatic improvement these cones provide. Anyway, $100 for 3 is the price of the Super set. They have various ranges down to as cheap as $20 for 3. http://www.dhcones.com/cones.html
Old 13th February 2004
  #10
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quasimodonyc's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by dave-G

audiophilia
-dave
Awesome.
Old 13th February 2004
  #11
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Beezoboy's Avatar
 

Machined brass speaker spikes -

www.oregondv.com

.625" with inserts = $1.55 each



1.375" = $1.65 each



Sorry but $100 is absurd!!
Beez
Old 13th February 2004
  #12
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Dot's Avatar
Uh, Beez, what are you going to do - screw those spikes into your monitors? I ain't doin' that.

Hey, you guys who aren't with it - don't be. But some people are going to buy these and try them out. They'll report back and the word will spread. These cones will be the biggest thing since the DAC1 for improving your monitoring system.
Old 13th February 2004
  #13
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dave-G's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by quasimodonyc
Quote:
Originally posted by dave-G
audiophilia
-dave
Awesome.
I was hoping someone would enjoy that.heh

-dave
Old 13th February 2004
  #14
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Beezoboy's Avatar
 

The can go the other way around right? Spike facing up. Or couldn't you make a little stand and then put a mopad on top with those on the bottom?? You'd be double covered for like $50



Beez
Old 13th February 2004
  #15
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dave-G's Avatar
Dan,

Aside from your personal impression of the performance enhancement that comes from using these cones, I'm curious: what is the technical concept behind these things? What is it that they are purported to be doing? Why do they improve things so much?

My mild poke at "audiophilia" aside, I really don't intend to sound sarcastic or incredulous. It's just in my nature keep an eyebrow raised until it gets educated back into place.

-dave
Old 13th February 2004
  #16
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hmmmm

I wonder what the profit margin is on those.

I don't doubt that they change the way the speaker sounds. but is it for the better?
They are useful for positioning you monitors I'm sure.

If you want to couple your speakers to what they are on, these types of spikes, cones, pyramids will do the job well.

So If I had cast concrete speaker stands that were sunk down to bedrock, and were isolated from the rest of the room, then I'd buy some ceramic thingys.

I have not tried them so, I am not saying they don't work exactly how you say.
But I am very skeptical.

High end a/c cables, on the other hand, I will drive right off the cliff with you. They make a big difference in high current applications like consoles and power amps, guitar amps.
Old 14th February 2004
  #17
Gear Head
 

Well, since he says on the site that the material is second in hardness only to diamond, he must be using boron nitride, which is EXTREMELY expensive stuff. I saw one place showed $7,000/lb for cubic boron nitride. Chances are though, he's using hexagonal BN, which is considerable cheaper (and also nowhere near the hardness - structure is more like graphite than diamond). Hexagonal BN is easy to machine, make complex shapes, etc. whereas cubic boron nitride is usually used as a coating on tools. So, I think the material cost could justify the high price, but I couldn't find any good reference. As for the performance and theory behind this, I'm curious as well.
Old 14th February 2004
  #18
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally posted by dave-G
some cable-tweaking, green-marker-toting dweeb
heh heh heh

I had forgotten all about the green markers! And you could buy a special "audio" green marker for $35! Do they still do that?
Old 14th February 2004
  #19
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Roland's Avatar
I've found the same effect can be had by hammering in three 6" nails to the bottom of the cabinet, cutting them off about an inch long and polishing the stubs to a point with an angle grinder!


heh heh heh heh

Regards


Roland
Old 24th February 2004
  #20
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Dot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by dave-G
Dan,

Aside from your personal impression of the performance enhancement that comes from using these cones, I'm curious: what is the technical concept behind these things? What is it that they are purported to be doing? Why do they improve things so much?
Dave, there's some interesting posts here on mechanical isolation and coupling
http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/t...tweaks&m=95714
Old 24th February 2004
  #21
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New life for your monitors - amazing product!!-conehead.jpg 
Old 24th February 2004
  #22
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Tim L's Avatar
 

I think you've got a point there... matter of fact, I think you've got three points there!

heh heh
Old 24th February 2004
  #23
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Dan-O's Avatar
 

OK here's my two cents, very briefly. Since I'm currently going through a monitor search I've also taken this opportunity to try a few things here and there as well. One being the isolation or coupling issue. Taking all the variables into consideration, room, ears, position, daily horoscope and star chart, here's what I found................for me that's is. I went to a local hardware store and bought brass acorn nuts of varying sizes, as well as, oak plugs (for in-set screws) also of varying sizes.

Mixing the same song with each of these using a pair of K&H's :

(I have an omniracks desk with two flanking shelves at ear level. Monitor in middle.)

Placed on the desk with nothing presented me with a nice picture but somewhat woolly. Mids were tough but the highs were there.

On the moPad I got a very tight picture. The low end seemed in place and the image was solid. Mids were better and the highs were pronounced a bit.

The oak plugs sounded much like the desk placement with nothing. I felt they were so similar I didn't try them again.

The brass acorns gave me a large and comfortable picture with what seemed like extended lows but clear. Mids were the same and the highs seemed somewhat subdued........................so I thought.........

Translation:

(You've got take into account the speakers at this point. These tests are a testament to the quality of these speakers.)

Flat (oak too) on the desk with nothing= woolly and undefined comparatively

Mopad, tight but smaller image. Something wasn't right on the bottom. The punch was there but not all of it.

Brass, Great image extended bottom and the highs were clear. Nice punch and everything was pretty much were it should be.

The something that wasn't right with the mopad's was bass response. Somewhere around 40-50hz or so. The kind of bass response that wraps it's self around you in mix a makes you all warm a fuzzy.

So...I found the brass to my liking. That said, I've used the mopad's since they came out with much success. But never did the testing I'm doing now. I do plan on placing the mackie's up there to hear the difference at a later date. I'll post my monitor search results when I'm done with all the speakers. Around a week or so. I'll include the mackie's with the brass acorns.


BTW, the brass acorns cost me $12. I use (2) 1/2" in the back and (1) #10 in the front to get the angle I need.

Again, my .02$

Dan-O
Old 24th February 2004
  #24
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Tim L's Avatar
 

Ok... so I'm a moroon! WTF is a "brass acorn"... do you mean brass cap-nut kinda thingies?
Old 24th February 2004
  #25
Gear Guru
 

I have my speakers on something similar to the Mopads. They are on small stands that sit on the table on either side of my monitor. the stands then sit on the table with another layer of 'dead stuff' under them.

(speaker>foam>stand>foam>table)

So lets say I get rid of the foam and place some cones (or acorns) under my speakers. Do I also put a set of cones under the stands (between the stands and the table?) Let the stands touch the table diirectly?

I will give all of these a try, but I am curious as to what the theory is.
Old 24th February 2004
  #26
Gear Maniac
 
Dan-O's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Tim L
Ok... so I'm a moroon! WTF is a "brass acorn"... do you mean brass cap-nut kinda thingies?
Yes.

Quote:
have my speakers on something similar to the Mopads. They are on small stands that sit on the table on either side of my monitor. the stands then sit on the table with another layer of 'dead stuff' under them.

So lets say I get rid of the foam and place some cones (or acorns) under my speakers. Do I also put a set of cones under the stands (between the stands and the table?) Let the stands touch the table diirectly?

I would say just the speakers.


BTW, you want to make sure to place the acorn point facing down and the flat side up. Flat side supporting the speaker that is. The idea is you focus the energies of the speaker from a wide point to a single small point(s) for coupling to it's environment. Different materials transfer differently and I preferred the brass. You might want something else. If it's wood, you want a "hard" wood... NOOOOOOO pun intended...............................well maybe.

Dan-O
Old 24th February 2004
  #27
Gear Maniac
 
Dan-O's Avatar
 

Quote:
(speaker>foam>stand>foam>table)
joeq, I just read that again. You want to remove the foam from under the stand as well. You want to whole environment to be solid and just the speakers energies focused to it I believe.
Old 25th February 2004
  #28
Gear Maniac
 
Dan-O's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by dave-G


(also popular within audiophilia)

I thought I heard it described to me that way by some cable-tweaking, green-marker-toting dweeb at some point... -dave
Hee Hee. Well hopefully I'm nowhere near one of these, but I did hear quite a difference in translation. But then again I'm always the first to sign up for placebo drug studies. The pays good and I only think I'm sick so it's a win, win.

I could feel differently in a few weeks. But than again I would only think I feel differently. I think?


"difference in translation" isn't that a movie?

Dan-O
Old 25th February 2004
  #29
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faeflora's Avatar
 

Hey check out this other "awesome" product from DH:

Acoustic Discs

To quote the product description:
Quote:
Scientific measurement shows that Acoustic Discs reduce cumulative spectral decay from 30 to 50 percent between 80 to 15000 Hz. More importantly, Golden Sound Acoustic Discs reduce only the corner early reflection after 1 millisecond. This will retain the dynamics and ambience of the original recording.
I gotta get me some o dem discs too!
Old 25th February 2004
  #30
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toledo3's Avatar
 

Most people are just changing the combfiltering when they try out different speaker isolation units. Make sure to keep the height consistent, or your tests are bs. Actually, that means most people have no way to do a real controlled test.
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