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Relfection filter for recording vocals
Old 2nd May 2017
  #1
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Relfection filter for recording vocals

i m looking for a reflection filter but i have no idea if this is the best solution for better records
are they as good as being in a vocal booth or its a waste of money and just a duvet make the same job?

so if they re good which are the best?
i found these

SE Reflexion X https://www.seelectronics.com/reflexion-filter-x

SE Reflexion Pro https://www.seelectronics.com/reflexion-filter-pro


SE Reflexion Space https://www.seelectronics.com/rf-space

also we re recording in an appartment and the acoustic is bad,but we re Looking to make our home studio progressively as professional as it can be
thanks
Old 3rd May 2017
  #2
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anyone who knows?
Old 3rd May 2017
  #3
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Real Traps portable vocal booth or a aston halo
Old 3rd May 2017
  #4
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thanks twenty both seem good and the previews i read are good,for now i m between real traps pvb and se electronic reflexion space
an other solution i found is to have real traps pvb behind the singer and an other reflection flter like se electronic space in front of mic,but it costs too much(i think buy at first one of these filters and building a small diy booth in the future is better solution and cheaper)
so these for now
if anybody else can help or has something else to suggest i would appreciate that
thanks
Old 3rd May 2017
  #5
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I've used all that you have mentioned specifically for your intended purpose and in my opinion the real traps is the most effective and flexible due to mic placement options. Due to esthetics I would go with the halo. Very effective and not extremely heavy like the se options although similar to the se in mic placement capabilities.
Old 4th May 2017
  #6
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sleepyhollos's Avatar
I have a couple of the reflection filter pros.I think that they are great at what they do and I literally use them on every recording that I make at one point or other. For vocals they can really work wonders in a room that isn't ideal.

That said, as mentioned by somebody above, they are very heavy so I find it best to use it with a separate Mic stand as the actual filter itself will connect and man you have no call for the heavy, cumbersome mount.
Old 4th May 2017
  #7
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antichef's Avatar
I have never had any luck with reflection filters - at first I tried to build one, and now I have a commercial one, but they always seem to make things sound worse - that is, I've had much better results treating the corners and walls of the room instead. Maybe I just don't know what I'm doing with them (except I'm convinced the one I built was horrible)

I still hang onto mine, though - I think maybe one day there will be a specific reason that I'll want to use it - maybe to help isolate some high frequency source away from some other high frequency source.
Old 4th May 2017
  #8
Gear Nut
 

I have the Aston Halo, and it works well. I doubt the SE ones work half as well.
Old 4th May 2017
  #9
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tkaitkai's Avatar
 

I tried the Aston Halo for two days and returned it. I'm sure it would work well in a different environment, but in my small, semi-treated room, it didn't seem to do much in the way of improving the sound.

It sounded best with the mic positioned as far outside the Halo as possible — moving it inwards produced a more muffled and honky sound, and when the mic was pushed 100% inside, the sound was so boxy as to be virtually unusable.

That said, when in the aforementioned sweet spot, it certainly didn't sound bad; just not what I would call a substantial improvement. I also have several gobos that I place around me while tracking, so adding a reflection filter might have been a little overkill.

I'd definitely be curious to try it again in a larger, more reflective room.

Last edited by tkaitkai; 5th May 2017 at 12:37 AM..
Old 5th May 2017
  #10
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I tried the halo in a small empty room with hardwood floors and it completely tamed the reverb. It did sound best at or near the furthest position from the halo. Funny how that works.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tkaitkai View Post
I tried the Aston Halo for two days and returned it. I'm sure it would work well in a different environment, but in my small, semi-treated room, it didn't seem to do much in the way of improving the sound.

It sounded best with the mic positioned as far outside the Halo as possible — moving it inwards produced a more muffled and honky sound, and when the mic was pushed 100% inside, the sound was so boxy as to be virtually unusable.

That said, when in the aforementioned sweet spot, it certainly didn't sound bad; just not what I would call a substantial improvement. I also have several gobos that I place around me while tracking, so adding a reflection filter might have been a little overkill.

I'd definitely be curious to try it again in a larger, more reflective room.
Old 5th May 2017
  #11
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tkaitkai's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twenty Staxx View Post
I tried the halo in a small empty room with hardwood floors and it completely tamed the reverb. It did sound best at or near the furthest position from the halo. Funny how that works.
Nice! I've seen several instances of people using it to get really dry vocals in super reverberant rooms, and these definitely pushed me to try it out.

Unfortunately, I was using a mic I wasn't too crazy about, so I wasn't able to get the most out of the Halo while I had it. Might have to look into trying one out again.

How'd it fare in terms of tone? Did it sound boxy or nasally to you?
Old 5th May 2017
  #12
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My buddy has an Aston Origin and coupled with the halo I was extremely surprised at the quality of the vocal recording. Nice and full, warm and articulate. Caught me off guard!


Quote:
Originally Posted by tkaitkai View Post
Nice! I've seen several instances of people using it to get really dry vocals in super reverberant rooms, and these definitely pushed me to try it out.

Unfortunately, I was using a mic I wasn't too crazy about, so I wasn't able to get the most out of the Halo while I had it. Might have to look into trying one out again.

How'd it fare in terms of tone? Did it sound boxy or nasally to you?
Old 5th May 2017
  #13
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Would be hard to get an angle like this going with the halo...
Attached Thumbnails
Relfection filter for recording vocals-20170504_194354.jpg   Relfection filter for recording vocals-20170504_194415.jpg  
Old 5th May 2017
  #14
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kennybro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by antichef View Post
I have never had any luck with reflection filters - at first I tried to build one, and now I have a commercial one, but they always seem to make things sound worse - that is, I've had much better results treating the corners and walls of the room instead. Maybe I just don't know what I'm doing with them (except I'm convinced the one I built was horrible)

I still hang onto mine, though - I think maybe one day there will be a specific reason that I'll want to use it - maybe to help isolate some high frequency source away from some other high frequency source.
Yeah, you need a really horrid room, combined with increased distance between singer and mic to notice an improvement. I've recorded vocals in a lot of rooms that were not treated specific recording rooms, and have very seldom found need for some kind of isolation device like this.

When I do need it, I put my own together looking something like Twenty Staxx's post photos above.
Old 4th May 2019
  #15
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tkaitkai's Avatar
 

I finally caved and bought an SE Space filter. I am absolutely floored. This thing is the real deal.

My studio room is in disarray at the moment (currently in the process of moving), so apart from a few panels I still have hung on the walls & ceiling, the acoustics are pretty out of control.

I was pretty skeptical, having been let down by the Aston Halo. But I really needed something to get by during this move, so I went ahead and bought one, figuring I'd just send it back if I didn't like it.

DEFINITELY keeping this one. Unlike the Halo, it's literally set it and forget it — just line up the capsule with the outer edge of the filter and you're pretty much ready to roll. No fussing around with mic-to-filter proximity. No lower midrange buildup, no dull high end, and no weird comb filtering. Room reflections, while not eliminated entirely, are reduced to a point where they're essentially a nonissue.

Using this with an M149, I'm getting results that contend with stuff I've recorded in high end pro studios. I'm in disbelief. Highly recommended. I'll try and share some clips when time allows.
Old 5th May 2019
  #16
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Al Rogers's Avatar
 

I had a Reflexion filter. I replaced it with a RealTraps Portable Vocal Booth. No regrets!
Old 5th May 2019
  #17
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Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Rogers View Post
I had a Reflexion filter. I replaced it with a RealTraps Portable Vocal Booth. No regrets!
I'm skeptical of anything that's not behind the mic and performer, but that one looks like it's big enough that it could work. Have you tried it with guitar as well?
Old 5th May 2019
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
I'm skeptical of anything that's not behind the mic and performer, but that one looks like it's big enough that it could work. Have you tried it with guitar as well?
I tried the same thing with their MondoTraps as an experiment (2×4' angled the same way), which are much thicker and higher performance. They lose some of their low frequency effectiveness free-field like this away from walls, as the "coupled" air space between the back of the trap and the wall is integral in helping low frequency absorption. Still much better than without them behind the mic for sure, but still not comparable to a well-trapped room or a ring of large tube traps surrounding the performer and mic, for example.
Old 5th May 2019
  #19
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Al Rogers's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
I'm skeptical of anything that's not behind the mic and performer, but that one looks like it's big enough that it could work. Have you tried it with guitar as well?
Howdy Brent. Yes the PVB works OK for acoustic guitars as well as vocals. It absorbs sound that would otherwise hit the walls and reverberate. Not perfection but as you note it's large enough to do some good. It also sits nicely on the floor in front of a guitar amp when you want a gobo there.

After having some success with the PVB I also bought 4 of Ethan's Mini Traps (2' x 4') and put them on stands so that I can experiment with different placements. By combining the PVB with the mini traps I can get a pretty clean sound in the small spare bedroom which I use as a recording studio.

Regarding placement behind the mic, I should probably have mentioned that I use figure 8 ribbon mics more often than cardioid mics. In a small room it helps if you put some absorption behind the figure 8 mics. I usually put one or two of the sound absorbing panels behind me as well.
Old 5th May 2019
  #20
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tkaitkai's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aural Endeavors View Post
...or a ring of large tube traps surrounding the performer and mic, for example.
This is the exact type of setup I have the most experience with, and I’m not kidding when I say the SE Space is giving me comparable results. The only other treatment I have going on at the moment are a few panels on the ceiling. I’m totally shocked by how well it performs.
Old 5th May 2019
  #21
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badmark's Avatar
My cheap 'n' cheerful solution, the dog frisbee reflector shield:

Old 5th May 2019
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkaitkai View Post
This is the exact type of setup I have the most experience with, and I’m not kidding when I say the SE Space is giving me comparable results. The only other treatment I have going on at the moment are a few panels on the ceiling. I’m totally shocked by how well it performs.
And I'm not kidding there is absolutely no comparison. To compare the two is a joke and quite comical. We're talking $20K+ worth of heavy duty trapping effective down to about 30 Hz. The SE filter is good down to about 500 Hz at best. Anything below that will pass right through it and into the mic. Physically impossible. Have you been in a ring of 10 20" diameter tube traps, and better yet, measured the difference?
Old 5th May 2019
  #23
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tkaitkai's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aural Endeavors View Post
And I'm not kidding there is absolutely no comparison. To compare the two is a joke and quite comical. We're talking $20K+ worth of heavy duty trapping effective down to about 30 Hz. The SE filter is good down to about 500 Hz at best. Anything below that will pass right through it and into the mic. Physically impossible. Have you been in a ring of 10 20" diameter tube traps, and better yet, measured the difference?
I don’t have to conduct scientific analyses to tell you that the sound is comparable. I have used the same mic & preamp in both scenarios (M149 + Wunder PEQ2R) and while there are certainly differences, the Space filter is very impressive and absolutely holds its own. I will happily share recordings when I have time.
Old 5th May 2019
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkaitkai View Post
I don’t have to conduct scientific analyses to tell you that the sound is comparable. I have used the same mic & preamp in both scenarios (M149 + Wunder PEQ2R) and while there are certainly differences, the Space filter is very impressive and absolutely holds its own. I will happily share recordings when I have time.
Measurements, when performed properly, are highly representative of what these devices physically can and cannot do; in this case decouple the effects of the room over the range of human hearing, and more importantly the effective range the instrument generally operates at. If you were to properly measure the SE filter's effectiveness at around 500 Hz and below, you'd see it would likely be doing pretty much nothing to the sound in that area. Therefore, the room's sound is still coming at the mic in that range of frequencies (20 - 500 Hz). However, if your room by itself or mic positioning already gives a decent result in the lower ranges, then the SE device can appear more effective. However, most small rooms suffer from heavy lower early reflections in the form of boxiness a little filter on a stand won't help with at all. Again, physically impossible.

Sure, it can help quite a bit otherwise, but comparing the two is still laughable. They really shouldn't be compared at all. It's definitely a good product for the money, though.
Old 5th May 2019
  #25
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tkaitkai's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aural Endeavors View Post
Sure, it can help quite a bit otherwise, but comparing the two is still laughable. They really shouldn't be compared at all. It's definitely a good product for the money, though.
How is it laughable to make a comparison between two products I have actual, real-world experience using?
Old 6th May 2019
  #26
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkaitkai View Post
How is it laughable to make a comparison between two products I have actual, real-world experience using?
No use in continuing this discussion since measurements don't hold any value to you. I've made my case, while you insist the SE filter is the answer to decoupling poor room acoustics from a microphone. I guess we can all not worry about room treatment now and just use this device with all our mics instead. Suddenly I feel like I'm on a snake oil esoteric audiophile site arguing that discs the size of quarters on walls and cable lifters aren't doing anything to help the sound.
Old 6th May 2019
  #27
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tkaitkai's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aural Endeavors View Post
No use in continuing this discussion since measurements don't hold any value to you. I've made my case, while you insist the SE filter is the answer to decoupling poor room acoustics from a microphone. I guess we can all not worry about room treatment now and just use this device with all our mics instead. Suddenly I feel like I'm on a snake oil esoteric audiophile site arguing that discs the size of quarters on walls and cable lifters aren't doing anything to help the sound.
Where did I say any of that???
Old 6th May 2019
  #28
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cjogo's Avatar
We use the MONO PRICE ...Like the controllable "wings"

Well-built >> Heavy Duty . We mount the filter on it's own stand -- and a separate stand for the mic .











Old 6th May 2019
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badmark View Post
My cheap 'n' cheerful solution, the dog frisbee reflector shield:

What I want to know is...

How did you train Fido to bring back the Frisbee, the microphone, AND the shockmount?
Chris
Old 6th May 2019
  #30
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badmark's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
What I want to know is...

How did you train Fido to bring back the Frisbee, the microphone, AND the shockmount?
Chris
Trained Fido to run around in a figure-of-8 pattern!
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