The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Avantone mixcubes remorse?
Old 29th May 2019
  #121
Lives for gear
 
ionian's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post

I don't love the idea that my main speakers need a second or third safety check but that's where I'm at right now. Maybe there's something about learning the speakers and how they translate. But that concept also includes checking on other systems... D'oh!
I just look at it that there's a trade off for everything. The focals are great for detail work and really hearing if there's any issues, adjusting reverb and compression, eq, etc. So because of their ability to reveal detail, they have to lack somewhere else so that's where the auratone comes in.
Old 11th August 2019
  #122
Gear Maniac
 

Is anyone producing techno (or other instrumental electronic dance music) finding Mixcubes essential?

I'm very curious about them, but mostly people mention checking vocals...?
Old 11th August 2019
  #123
Lives for gear
 

I rely on the mixcubes for two things and two things ONLY:

1) Vocal levels&reverb. Much easier to get it right than on full range monitors IMO.

2) Bass guitar level. Yep, this was a bit of a surprise. But I find that if the bass guitar is too low on the mixcubes it usually means it is lacking in the midrange. My starting point for mixing bass is now to FIRST raise the bass to roughly the desired level on the mixcubes and THEN start tweaking the lows on the full range monitors. My mixes improved massively overnight when I started doing this. To some extent I take the same approach to all low frequency instruments, like kick, but some synth basses are obviously not meant to have much (if any) mid content and will remaing more or less inaudible on small speakers no matter what.
Old 6th March 2020
  #124
Gear Head
 

I just got some active MixCubes to pair with my Focal Alpha 65s (LOVE the Focals). MixCubes sound weird as heck, but I'm going to give them a go and see if I get used to them, as seems to be the case with a lot of people.

The problem is that they are way quieter than the Focals. Is this right? I have to turn them way up on the back of the monitors to get them to match levels with the Focals, which I've never adjusted the volume of. I mix at the recommended volume (85db) or usually lower than that, so it's not like I'm trying to blast these things, but it's feeling like I have to crank the MixCubes almost all the way just to get them to level match with Focals at half volume.

Worried about distorting the Cubes and/or blowing them or something.
Old 6th March 2020
  #125
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
I have been finding that my Focal Aria 906 along with the Topping DX7s DAC is kind of giving me a midrange focus anyway. So I hardly ever even turn on my DIY mix cubes any more. Or the small computer speakers. There are trade offs to any monitor situation but some seem to be more effective than others. I don't know if this is objective though or if everyone's ears are completely different.
Old 6th March 2020
  #126
Lives for gear
 
3rd Degree's Avatar
 

I have never had passive studio monitors. I had been considering the actives but I inherited a Marantz 2330 from my grandmother when she passed. I am wondering if an amp of the same time frame of Avantones would be a good thing, or just stick with actives? The main pro of using this receiver is both volume, and I could use both my mixer's eq's and my receiver's eq's if I choose, but my main idea here is to have a pretty period correct amp (and volume control), and it just sits at top my rack doing nothing.
Old 6th March 2020
  #127
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd Degree View Post
wondering if an amp of the same time frame of Avantones
What do you mean?
Old 6th March 2020
  #128
Lives for gear
 
3rd Degree's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hello people View Post
What do you mean?
Sorry, I meant Aurotones. I was just asking if a 70's consumer amp for a passive Avantone Mixcube would be appropriate or if I should just get the active instead. I have the amp laying around not doing anything.
Old 10th March 2020
  #129
Gear Nut
 
MoTech's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by blueflake View Post
Is anyone producing techno (or other instrumental electronic dance music) finding Mixcubes essential?

I'm very curious about them, but mostly people mention checking vocals...?
Using them for that. For me they are not essential but they are an important and very helpful tool in the monitoring process. Once you learn them they become very valuable nailing that perfect balance. IMHO electronic (especially -dance) music tend to have much unused space in the mids that very few use it since those producers are mostly "foot-hunters", a common dance music tradition or heritage if you will. Lots of action in highs as well to energize the rhythmic vibe, but the "body" is often neglected due to too much emphasize on those two extremes. Mixcubes opened up that area for me.

I do have a subwoofer to check super lows this style of music requires somewhat fundamentally, but I find I use Mixcubes 80+% of the production time since they don't tire me (they did in the beginning though, needed quite some time to get used to) as much as my other 2-way monitors. So it is another less talked pro about Mixcubes - you can spend more time at the workdesk on creative ideas without tiring out or leaving like a zombie (especially true when working long time with subwoofers)

YMMV applies, as always.
Old 10th March 2020
  #130
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd Degree View Post
I have never had passive studio monitors. I had been considering the actives but I inherited a Marantz 2330 from my grandmother when she passed. I am wondering if an amp of the same time frame of Avantones would be a good thing, or just stick with actives?
For the most part, an amp is an amp. Its job is to provide clean power. Even old tube amps from consumer stereo systems were trying to be as clean as possible. I think you can use any amp for this purpose. If the amp colors your sound so much that it fits/doesn't fit the "age" of your speakers, IMO it's not a very good amp.


Quote:
The main pro of using this receiver is both volume, and I could use both my mixer's eq's and my receiver's eq's if I choose,

Applying EQ to your power amp is something your grandmother might have done in her living room for her own musical enjoyment. But she did not have a mixer. Applying EQ to the amp driving the speakers will change what you hear in the room, but it will not change the actual mix. Except in the sense that your mix will be 'pushed' in the opposite direction. i.e. if you added bass to your speakers with an EQ in the power amp, you would probably tend to create a mix with less bass because you will feel that you are hearing "plenty" of bass.

I would keep the amp flat, unless you are going to scientifically tune it to the room. In which case, the tone controls of the receiver will probably be inadequate.

Quote:
but my main idea here is to have a pretty period correct amp (and volume control), and it just sits at top my rack doing nothing.
As long as it is in good shape, I don't think it will hurt to have an old amp, but I think "period correct" is something would only matter if your receiver was a prop in a movie about the 1970's. Coloration in a monitor system is not desirable in the way that coloration in your Front End might be. The sound of a colored preamp or mic actually ends up in your recordings. A colored monitor system is audible only in your room and could even fool you into doing odd things to your mix in compensation.

I have a pair of the older Auratones. I use a modern amp with plenty of headroom. That amp has no EQ! Even if I spent more than 5% of my time on them - I don't - I would be fine with using 'whatever' amp to power them. But if it had tone controls, they would be set flat.
Old 10th March 2020
  #131
Lives for gear
 
3rd Degree's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
Applying EQ to your power amp is something your grandmother might have done in her living room for her own musical enjoyment. But she did not have a mixer. Applying EQ to the amp driving the speakers will change what you hear in the room, but it will not change the actual mix. Except in the sense that your mix will be 'pushed' in the opposite direction. i.e. if you added bass to your speakers with an EQ in the power amp, you would probably tend to create a mix with less bass because you will feel that you are hearing "plenty" of bass.

I would keep the amp flat, unless you are going to scientifically tune it to the room. In which case, the tone controls of the receiver will probably be inadequate.
I have not used this type of speaker with EQ, but with my other two sets of monitors (one may be replace by one or a pair of these), it is sometimes helpful to turn up the bass, for example, to see where it may translate with subs. Obviously, that takes a lot of referencing over time and it's not accurate, just ball park but I have found it to be helpful, though I don't mix with any EQ ever. Not saying it is right, it just works for me on my other monitors for certain things as a basic check.

All other points make sense and are very helpful. Thank you.
Old 11th March 2020
  #132
Lives for gear
 

I have both Auratones (original) and NS10. I prefer Auratones. They make problems much more obvious than NS10s and unlike NS10s they tell you clearly when you actually fixed them if you don't have extensive experience with both. For low end obviously I only trust my monitors and headphones but for everything else Auratones are absolutely great.

I wonder how well Behringer copied the original. They really fell flat on their face with their recent BD DT770 headphones, so I'm a bit worried if they copied anything else but the looks.
Old 11th March 2020
  #133
Gear Guru
Coming from a TV BG Auratones were a reference of what was clear on a TV speaker and translate well to any small speaker. Car testing makes zero sense as a car is essentially like a booth, not a room....very artificial environment and car systems vary greatly. That used to be the AM radio test......

Auratones weren't known as great sounding which was the point. NS10's same thing but more range.... I'd say guys that mix on Auratones have to really know their stuff because mids are there but not made to be full range.......
Old 22nd September 2020
  #134
Lives for gear
 
Shaggy2039's Avatar
Bought my Mixcubes about 3 months ago during quarantine before I could move back into my studio. So far, I don’t understand the need for these and like others here, I’m having a hard time seeing what they’re trying to tell me to do with my mix. My other monitors are Amphion Two 15’s which I personally think are the coolest monitor I’ve ever used and they’re very detailed in the mid range so maybe it’s just overkill to have the cubes.
Old 22nd September 2020
  #135
Deleted 2848499
Guest
I worked at a studio that had the Avantone's in every room. I never could get them either. That said, some people really do get them and swear by them.

When the Auratone reissues came out, I swooped a pair with the matching Auratone/Bettermaker amp. All I can say is, I FULLY get them now, and after breaking in they have been amazing and revealing super tiny moves that help me reach the end result faster. I'm in a room with ATC's, Neumann, and Focals so there's nothing earth shattering about a pair of Auratones. That said, I'm game for anything that pushes my mixes to be another few percent better quickly, and at $600 its a real no brainer.

The Auratones aren't making anything REALLY jump out besides the slight organ/rhodes/rimshot/pokey mid range source a dB or two, or subtle eq dips. They are also a good tool for quick mid range leveling. The other speakers are doing 97%. I will always spend some time on them though to see what I can be doing better, or to check levels quickly. If I make a subtle move or two, then switch back to the other monitors, most of the time I realize its a little better now. I also like to do a quick check on the low mid range of the vocal.

For me, they are liability insurance for the mid range, iphones, airpods, and homepods/alexa/beatspill.

When I turn something into a client, I want that 2-3% so there's less updates and they are more impressed with mix version 1.0. I'd spend $600 on anything that helps me do that faster.

Last edited by Deleted 2848499; 22nd September 2020 at 07:22 PM..
Old 23rd September 2020
  #136
Lives for gear
 

You may just be too good at mixing.

I guess if you can make a 100% perfect mix on your main monitors and it sounds just fine on Auratones you won't find them useful because your skill doesn't require second checks and they're not gonna tell you much.

For those of us who are not there yet and who still need a "teacher/supervisor" to double check our work, Auratones are those teachers.

As I'm growing as a mixer I noticed that too, a year ago switching to Auratones was like an explosion of horror... these days I rarely hear anything on them that I don't already hear on my primary monitors of headphones. I don't remember the last time I corrected anything on them (not because I'm good but because I was verifying crap I heard on my mains that it's really crap).

However I feel like they're nice to have even your mixes 100% ready before you switch to double check as a final confirmation that you did a good job. So even you use them for literally one song pass after finishing the mix, it won't hurt.

They look cool too and don't take up any space.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #137
Here for the gear
 

i'm in an untreated room and i want a small speaker to check my mixes like the OP with the car test. I am considering one single active mixcube or a Yamaha HS5. The mixcube appeals to me to have something small on the desk. would the one speaker be a good call? also is it risky to buy one speaker because if you want to add a second down the line you don't know if it will be matched?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #138
Lives for gear
 
Shaggy2039's Avatar
I just want to clarify my post from earlier...I have not heard Auratones which are apparently way better than the Avantone Mixcubes. When most people say they love their mixcubes, the big pro guys are usually referring to the Auratone passive run through a good amp. The Avantone Mixcubes, in my opinion, don't really tell you much if you already have a mid foward or detailed monitoring system, IMHO. I'd prefer to hear my mixes on NS-10's, honestly.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #139
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtunes View Post
would the one speaker be a good call?
If you are checking in mono, IMO, one-speaker mono is the way to go. Many people combine the Auratone check with the mono check. Combining this makes some sense since the Auratones "represent" the kind of speaker that often is mono: what you might find on a clock radio, "kitchen" TV, or Bluetooth box.

Quote:
Also, is it risky to buy one speaker because if you want to add a second down the line you don't know if it will be matched?
I can listen to mine in stereo or mono, but I don't really spend enough time in stereo to worry them "matching"
Old 4 weeks ago
  #140
Deleted 2848499
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
If you are checking in mono, IMO, one-speaker mono is the way to go. Many people combine the Auratone check with the mono check. Combining this makes some sense since the Auratones "represent" the kind of speaker that often is mono: what you might find on a clock radio, "kitchen" TV, or Bluetooth box.



I can listen to mine in stereo or mono, but I don't really spend enough time in stereo to worry them "matching"
Really solid point, I also do the mono check on the Auratones.
Old 39 minutes ago
  #141
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneHall View Post
Hi, Genuinely curious, which award winning top mixers can you cite that use the Avantones?
I've been studying mix via tutorials with everyone from Mick Gazcauski to Andrew Sheps to Fab Dupont to Warren Huart, Masarati, Brauer etc and few more.., I've never once seen an Avantone MixCube or heard so much as a mention regarding them. I would bet my bottom dollar they do not use them, mostly for the reasons so uneloquently listed above, but everyone has their own perspective and rightly so.
Most all of them seem to use small radios of varying personal preference and a few suggested boutique passive speakers based on the Auratone. 5 pro studios home to top engineers I have visited also did not have a single Avantone MixCube between them.
Not that any of this matters but I was curious about this a few years back but could not find any professional reference to support my naive consideration of the need for , in particular, the Avantone powered speaker. Seriously not trying to have a pick or dig but if there is a professional reference pertaining to the Avantone, I would appreciate learning about it. kind regards

I just read this entire thread and found it fascinating. I'm particularly intrigued by this question. I don't even want to get into it, but my speaker journey has been nuts. I've collected so many speakers it's insane. For me, the original 5c has been impossible to mix without. But I think that you make a great point here. (Side note: Tom Elmhirst does use the reissue Auratone 5c's alongside his ATC SCM50's and has mentioned in interviews that he spends most of his time mixing on the Auratones.) My record collection is huge and encompasses tens of thousands of records. I only bring this up, because it's relevant in the sense that if you were to work forward through my collection from about 1975 to 2020 you would notice that today's music is in fact much more hi-fi and full range than even the best recordings from 1975 were. That's not to say that they weren't great recordings. Massenburg's work with Earth Wind & Fire or Bill Szymczyk's work or John Wood / Joe Boyd's Sound Techniques work, Aja, etc etc were all incredible recordings. But none of them have the low frequency information that today's mixes have. Random Access Memories just sounds "technically" better. I feel like 70's and 80's recordings were focused on the types of reproduction systems in cars and houses that were being used at the time. So they mixed in certain ways that reflected how the consumer would experience music in the end. That is to say, I think that they were just more focused on the midrange in general. But nowadays, you have to have that extended bottom, stereo width and sweet but not harsh top that everyone expects from a modern recording. So the 5c and the like have sort of become somewhat irrelevant in a way. I mean even apple earbuds sound "scooped". This may explain why top mixers simply don't bother with mix cubes these days for the most part.

Just a thought.
📝 Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 106 views: 20535
Avatar for Avenue Road
Avenue Road 4 weeks ago
replies: 507 views: 259611
Avatar for Bluzzi
Bluzzi 23rd May 2018
replies: 45 views: 15458
Avatar for mainstreamdjs
mainstreamdjs 14th February 2017
replies: 0 views: 433
Avatar for TBZ_092
TBZ_092 26th March 2015
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
🖨️ Show Printable Version
✉️ Email this Page
🔍 Search thread
🎙️ View mentioned gear
Forum Jump
Forum Jump