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Anyone still using PZM mics out there?
Old 11th March 2017
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
Don't you essentially end up with a micro-capsule omni mic this way?
Yes. With no bottom. But it's a very natural-sounding no bottom.
Old 11th March 2017
  #32
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Quote:
I remember it was very "realistic" sounding.
Pun?
Old 11th March 2017
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fritz.john View Post
I bought a stereo PZM mic many years ago and had it modded for a touch more output by the guy that made it at Crown. Don't remember the model number but it looks like a head rest.
Ahh - the SASS-P

Old 11th March 2017
  #34
That's it John!! Thanks for the pic!
Old 11th March 2017
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
If, by PZM, you mean a boundary mic. - then, yes.

NB: A PZM is a boundary mic., but a boundary mic. need not necessarily be a PZM.
see also
Kleenex
Xerox
Band-Aid
Escalator
Dumpster
Old 13th March 2017
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
see also
Kleenex
Xerox
Band-Aid
Escalator
Dumpster


Not the same though - the way they work is different.

A PZM (Pressure Zone Microphone) is a specific type of boundary mic. and has the microphone capsule above the boundary, pointing back towards it.



This was patented by Crown.

Other boundary microphones have the capsule flush with the boundary itself and pointed up instead of down.



PZM is *not* a generic term for a boundary mic. but describes a specific type of boundary mic.
Old 13th March 2017
  #37
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I learned a lot today! Thanks Gearslutz!
Old 13th March 2017
  #38
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A couple years ago Guitar Center's used site had a bunch of NOS Radio Shack PZMs that had never been used. I bought all ten of them for $5 each.

I have a pair mounted in my room and the occasionally see some use. I had one I put on a sheet of glass that was kind of interesting and once I put one on a large sheet of metal.

IIRC there were rumors that Crown made the RS mics, but I don't think it was true. The other thing you can do is wire up an XLR connector. There is a spare wire if you snip the end off.
Old 13th March 2017
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post


Not the same though - the way they work is different.

A PZM (Pressure Zone Microphone) is a specific type of boundary mic. and has the microphone capsule above the boundary, pointing back towards it.



This was patented by Crown.

Other boundary microphones have the capsule flush with the boundary itself and pointed up instead of down.



PZM is *not* a generic term for a boundary mic. but describes a specific type of boundary mic.
thanks for the clarification
I always thought it was just brand-name thing
Old 13th March 2017
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah330 View Post
A couple years ago Guitar Center's used site had a bunch of NOS Radio Shack PZMs that had never been used. I bought all ten of them for $5 each.

I have a pair mounted in my room and the occasionally see some use. I had one I put on a sheet of glass that was kind of interesting and once I put one on a large sheet of metal.

IIRC there were rumors that Crown made the RS mics, but I don't think it was true. The other thing you can do is wire up an XLR connector. There is a spare wire if you snip the end off.
You can also easily convert them to 48V phantom power.
Old 14th March 2017
  #41
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Also quite easy to cut off the battery pack and wire it for 9volt use. It increases the spl handling and output.
Somewhere out there in Internet land there's a tape op "build your own omni condenser mic" article. The power supply works with the RS pzm as well.
Old 14th March 2017
  #42
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SASS-P makes a great stereo mic addition to put a few feet in front of the drum setup.

I used PCC 160s extensively with Houston Grand Opera. Very low visual profile and great backside rejection from the pit.
Using modern technology you can isolate them incredibly well from onstage foot noise too, much better than clips.
Old 20th April 2019
  #43
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
If, by PZM, you mean a boundary mic. - then, yes.

NB: A PZM is a boundary mic., but a boundary mic. need not necessarily be a PZM.

I have a pair of the Neumann GFM 132 and I also use the Maier Sound "Turtle" that will convert almost any small diaphragm condenser into a boundary mic.

I don't use them all the time - but there is definitely a need to use them at times.

The best boundary mics, IMHO, were the Neumann and Shcoeps - though the Neumann is now discontinued; and the Crown PZM was good.

A lot of modern boundary mics weem to be low cost devices designed to be used on stage by a band - which is why I find the "Turtle" so useful as I can use any mic. I want.


Are these Turtles as good as using a dedicated PZM John? What do you use, omnis?
Old 20th April 2019
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Poulton View Post
Are these Turtles as good as using a dedicated PZM John? What do you use, omnis?
They are as good as the mic. You use in it.

IMHO there are only two excellent boundary mics - the Schoeps and the Neumann GFM.

With the Turtle you can use any mic. you want - with a top end mic. like a Schoeps, Neumann, Gefell, DPA, etc. it would, I would guess, about equal the Schoeps or Neumann. And the designer *did* design the Turtle with help from Schoeps.

But you can use it with almost any SDC you want and in many cases would, I think, be a lot better than some of the cheaper boundary mics. - with the bonus that you can use the mic. normally when you don’t need a boundary mic.
Old 20th April 2019
  #45
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
They are as good as the mic. You use in it.

IMHO there are only two excellent boundary mics - the Schoeps and the Neumann GFM.

With the Turtle you can use any mic. you want - with a top end mic. like a Schoeps, Neumann, Gefell, DPA, etc. it would, I would guess, about equal the Schoeps or Neumann. And the designer *did* design the Turtle with help from Schoeps.

But you can use it with almost any SDC you want and in many cases would, I think, be a lot better than some of the cheaper boundary mics. - with the bonus that you can use the mic. normally when you don’t need a boundary mic.
I'll take a look at these, they will be cheaper too than PZMs, and with better mics in use.

I've used PZMs with great effect on occasion, but not very often.
Old 20th April 2019
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Poulton View Post
I've used PZMs with great effect on occasion, but not very often.
Which is why I like the Turtle - you only use it when you need a PZM, at other times you still have the mic.
Old 20th April 2019
  #47
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We have a Cajon instead of a drum set in our band and we were hired a lot to play at city festivals and most of the times we had the same soundman - a very professional guy. He always used a Grenzflächenmikrofon (PZM) for the Cajon. Don't know if he wanted to enhance the kick-drum effect. But sounded really great with one exception were the mic itself was resonating. What are people doing to prevent them from resonating? PZM aren't for mic-stands or elastic suspensions I guess.
Old 9th May 2019
  #48
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
You can also easily convert them to 48V phantom power.
How is that accomplisher John?
Old 9th May 2019
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Poulton View Post
Also, (because I've forgotten the name) what is that cage which you can put over omnis when they are used on the floor, similiar to PZMs? I think it was turtle, but can't find any reference to them anywhere (so far).
Yes, the Turtle.

Info HERE
Old 9th May 2019
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Poulton View Post
How is that accomplisher John?
I’m on an iPhone on a train, so am not sure which mics these are.

Tell me which and I’ll answer.
Old 9th May 2019
  #51
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
I’m on an iPhone on a train, so am not sure which mics these are.

Tell me which and I’ll answer.
Hi John

You mentioned that PZMs can be changed to be phantom powering 48v. The discussion was about the Tandy PZMs.

(I did find the Turtle in the end, and thought I'd deleted that response that you kindly answered!)
Old 9th May 2019
  #52
There's this wonderful thing called a search engine...
This was about the third listing down on duckduckgo after searching "converting radio shack pzm to phantom power".

https://www.jdbsound.com/art/art520.html

I think Method 2 is the circuit I used. I housed it in old cases from non-working direct boxes so one side had a 1/4-inch jack, and the other an XLR.
Granted, these "schematics" are confusing, but not that hard to decipher.
They work great and sound much better once you get the RS crap out of the circuit.
Now they sound like decent LDC mics.
Old 9th May 2019
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Poulton View Post
Hi John

You mentioned that PZMs can be changed to be phantom powering 48v. The discussion was about the Tandy PZMs.

(I did find the Turtle in the end, and thought I'd deleted that response that you kindly answered!)
Ahh - the Tandy PZM.

It is already balanced, even though it had a mono jack plug. Cut this off and solder on an XLR-3M.

To convert to 48V phantom you need to open the mic.

I did have the instructions, but the last time I did this was almost 40 years ago.

I will have to search when I get home, unless I can find them posted somewhere on-line.

I remember I had to solder an extra lead to the capsule, but used Chomerics tape instead as it had electrically conductive adhesive.

If I can find the details I’ll let you know.

A few minutes later ...

OK - Google “converting a Tandy PZM to 48v phantom power” - this throws up a list and the second one gives all the details and a diagram.

I tried, but I could not find out how to copy/paste the url on the iPhone - but this should give you all you need.
Old 9th May 2019
  #54
[QUOTE=John Willett;13972713]

Thanks for this John, I'll take a look.

I know when I bought them many, many moons ago, I changed the positive and negative around, Nigel Woodford alerted me to the way in which they were wired.

PZMs can just be the right thing in some cases, they're not a man for all seasons, but they certainly can offer solutions for improvements in a number of situations.

Last edited by Geoff Poulton; 12th May 2019 at 02:15 PM..
Old 10th May 2019
  #55
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THIS is what I was trying to link tol last night - I hope it helps.
Old 10th May 2019
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
THIS is what I was trying to link tol last night - I hope it helps.
As DIY mods go, that one would be brain surgery. For me, anyway. Looks like it's worth doing, though.
Old 10th May 2019
  #57
Anything that leaves the original RS transformer in the circuit will not give the best sound possible from these mics.
Old 10th May 2019
  #58
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I have one of the Radio Shack versions. I used to Velcro it to the top of an old acoustic guitar face down over the sound hole.
It actually sounded pretty darn good goo considering it was just an old Alverez acoustic I picked up at a pawn shop.
Maybe not as good as some other mics but definitely usable in recordings and I didn't have to worry about proximity
issues dealing with a mic on a stand.
Old 13th May 2019
  #59
Quote:
Originally Posted by tchgtr View Post
Anything that leaves the original RS transformer in the circuit will not give the best sound possible from these mics.
What would be an alternative I wonder? I guess it would have to fit the casing.
Old 13th May 2019
  #60
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i have regular use for both blm and pzm mic's (or use conventional sdc's to behave like those) - my latest use was for recording large glass bowls (two blm's between three bowls); i like this type of mic for higher output on soft sources (and low visibility).
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