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Using a presonus Firestation for "tube-ness grit". Or a doorstop.
Old 11th March 2007
  #1
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Using a presonus Firestation for "tube-ness grit". Or a doorstop.

Remember the Presonus Firestation, the product that simply didn't work for nearly everyone? Well I missed the upgrade path and still have one unused since new.
It has two tube pre-amps on it which I was wondering if I should patch into a couple of sends from my desk and use them to route VSTi's etc through for a bit of out of the box grit. Anyone out there using Presonus tube pres? What are they like? Should I change the stock tubes? Should I go in as XLR or jack?
If I do this, which return route back into the box would offer better fidelity: use the onboard Presonus converters and go via lightpipe or come back into the input section of my desk, route to tape send and go from there into the PC through my LynxOne converters?
Or should I just use the whole thing to stop the studio door swinging too wide?
Old 11th March 2007
  #2
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ricknaqvi's Avatar
 

I still use a Firestation as a stand alone a/d/d/a. The preamps will definitely add a little grit if you boost the drive and turn the gain down. Watch out, they have a ton of gain (72dB) so you might need to be careful not to overload them by attenuating the send in your DAW.

When you are in 'stand alone' mode, the Firestation treats the pres and the a/d section totally separate. So you can come from the line out, hit the preamp, then go out of the preamp, hit any other outboard processor you want, and then return it back to a line input.

It will work solidly for what you want to do.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Old 11th March 2007
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juicylime View Post
. Anyone out there using Presonus tube pres? What are they like? Should I change the stock tubes?

Will this pig look good with the peach lipstick or the tangarine?

Seriously...I believe the 12ax7s in that unit have about 16 volts on the plates. I'm guessing the tubes aren't really giving you any color at all.
Old 12th March 2007
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricknaqvi View Post
I still use a Firestation as a stand alone a/d/d/a. The preamps will definitely add a little grit if you boost the drive and turn the gain down. Watch out, they have a ton of gain (72dB) so you might need to be careful not to overload them by attenuating the send in your DAW.

When you are in 'stand alone' mode, the Firestation treats the pres and the a/d section totally separate. So you can come from the line out, hit the preamp, then go out of the preamp, hit any other outboard processor you want, and then return it back to a line input.

It will work solidly for what you want to do.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Wow. Answer direct from Presonus. You gotta love gearslutz!! A few months ago I sent this email to your company:
Hi,<o:p></o:p>
I have a Firestaion I bought new when it was released. After many unsuccessful attempts I gave up on getting it to work on my Mac ibook. I now have a set up on XP. I have seen very mixed reports on line about problems and bugs, can I expect to get the unit working without problems?<o:p></o:p>
Regards,

The answer I got was:
Hi,<o:p> </o:p>
If you want the short and honest answer, I would say no. [followed by technical don't blame us blame Yamaha/Microsoft blurb]



To which I replied:
Hi,
So I bought a unit from you that pretty much won’t work as it’s supposed to? Wow, that’s a bit of a shock. Where does that leave people like me who bought brand new machines upon release and never got them to work?

A quote from the answer:
In today’s computer envi<st1:PersonName w:st="on">ron</st1:PersonName>ment I do not recommend it being used as an interface product.


<o:p></o:p>
But it is an interface product!!! Can you believe that buying this unit was one of the reasons I took a weekend in NYC? I live in f*cking Ireland! It wasn't cheap either. Expensive mistake for a peice of gear that NEVER, EVER, EVER worked. NOT ONCE! You can blame whoever the bloody hell you want. Yamaha for mLan or Bill Gates for having the cheek to release SP1 & SP2 for XP. I bought the product of YOU. It has left me with a sick feeling in my stomach that makes me balk whenever I see the name Presonus. Well done to the folks at Presonus.

Old 12th March 2007
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juicylime View Post

But it is an interface product!!! Can you believe that buying this unit was one of the reasons I took a weekend in NYC? I live in f*cking Ireland! It wasn't cheap either. Expensive mistake for a peice of gear that NEVER, EVER, EVER worked. NOT ONCE! You can blame whoever the bloody hell you want. Yamaha for mLan or Bill Gates for having the cheek to release SP1 & SP2 for XP. I bought the product of YOU. It has left me with a sick feeling in my stomach that makes me balk whenever I see the name Presonus. Well done to the folks at Presonus.

Amen to that. I bought not one but two of those unfortunate products. Same bs run-around blaming Yamaha, Apple, etc. but not once offering to do the right thing and take the products back for a full refund. In any other market with more product volume, no company could get away with that. Imagine a DVD player that cannot play DVDs, a car that's not recommended for driving, etc.. Unfathomable and untenable.

I will never buy another piece of PreSonus gear after my FireStation experience. I spent a year in constant contact with them and they never stood up to do the right thing. Not the sort of company that will get my money again.
Old 12th March 2007
  #6
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i can't even count how many different emotions were conveyed in that last post! my favorite was arrogance.
Old 12th March 2007
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treymonfauntre View Post
i can't even count how many different emotions were conveyed in that last post! my favorite was arrogance.
You obvioulsy weren't one of Presonus' victims....

I can only imagine you have no clue as to what happened with the Firestation. This was a short lived product that was supposed to be a firewire audio interface for the PC. Unfortunately, it never actually worked. Presonus kept promising a driver update, but finally realized it was a hardware issue. Once this WAS realized, they dropped the product, leaving all customers with a very expensive paperweight.

Sincerely,
Victim # 3782
Old 12th March 2007
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treymonfauntre View Post
i can't even count how many different emotions were conveyed in that last post! my favorite was arrogance.
Frustration? Yes. Arrogance? Please tell me how I am being arrogant. I spent $1500 and a year with unstable or inoperable equipment before I finally moved on. I did sympathize with the company initially, but regardless of where the source of the problems ultimately lied, I bought a product manufactured and marketed by PreSonus and on one else. Not Yamaha. Not Apple. If PreSonus was helpless to correct the issues faced by their users (which I believe they were), that's unfortunate for them, but they did release this flawed product and the obligation to support it adequately rested with no one other than them. If they were not able to do this, they should have issued a recall. Again, that sucks for them but they are the culpable party.

If believing in honesty, integrity, and meeting all reasonable obligations to your patrons equates arrogance for you, then so be it. A company should never expect a customer to bear the burden of their poor business decisions. This may be principled, perhaps, but I am a principled individual and treat others the same way I expect to be treated myself.
Old 12th March 2007
  #9
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DontLetMeDrown's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sizzleboy View Post
...Presonus kept promising a driver update, but finally realized it was a hardware issue. Once this WAS realized, they dropped the product, leaving all customers with a very expensive paperweight...
I see no indication that the product has been dropped. It is still on their website and they are still being sold at Sweetwater and Musician's Friend. Maybe you can explain more.
Old 12th March 2007
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DontLetMeDrown View Post
I see no indication that the product has been dropped. It is still on their website and they are still being sold at Sweetwater and Musician's Friend. Maybe you can explain more.

???

please send me a link to any retailer selling the Presonus Firestation....

You may want to clear your browser's cache every few years.
Old 12th March 2007
  #11
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DontLetMeDrown's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sizzleboy View Post
Will this pig look good with the peach lipstick or the tangarine?

Seriously...I believe the 12ax7s in that unit have about 16 volts on the plates. I'm guessing the tubes aren't really giving you any color at all.
I'm reading the product description for the Firestudio and I don't see anything about any tubes in the unit. Are you guys talking about the Presonus TubePre or Firestudio?
Old 12th March 2007
  #12
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lozion's Avatar
 

To answer the O.P. yes you can send line leve signal to the Firestation's pres for color, I've used this a couple occasion for keys tracks. I have 2 firestation that I use for AD/DA with my Profire Lightbridge and Pro Tools. Works great in standalone and I couldnt care for the mlan protocol... I just dont use as an interface.
They sell for really cheap on ebay and as a matter if fact I'm thinking about getting a couple more... Especially now that my LB allow me to record up to 32 tracks in M-Powered... Yes you have read correctly!!
So for around 250$ a pop, its a steal... I find the pre's to be very usable. Ymmv.

Cheers,
Old 12th March 2007
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DontLetMeDrown View Post
I'm reading the product description for the Firestudio and I don't see anything about any tubes in the unit. Are you guys talking about the Presonus TubePre or Firestudio?

We're talking about the Presonus FIRESTATION...a short lived product from about 4 or 5 years ago.
Old 12th March 2007
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DontLetMeDrown View Post
I'm reading the product description for the Firestudio and I don't see anything about any tubes in the unit. Are you guys talking about the Presonus TubePre or Firestudio?
fireSTATION


anyway, yes, i did own one of these. i think after somebody on craigslist gave it a try its in a guitar center now. and no i haven't bought another piece of presonus gear since then. i wasn't calling you arrogant, presonus's response was arrogant. the entire post summed up nearly every emotion known to man between your rant and their replies.
Old 12th March 2007
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treymonfauntre View Post
fireSTATION


anyway, yes, i did own one of these. i think after somebody on craigslist gave it a try its in a guitar center now. and no i haven't bought another piece of presonus gear since then. i wasn't calling you arrogant, presonus's response was arrogant. the entire post summed up nearly every emotion known to man between your rant and their replies.
Ah, PreSonus' arrogace. Yes, quite! Sorry if I misinterpreted your post. Those feelings of frustration are still with me even several years later!
Old 12th March 2007
  #16
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DontLetMeDrown's Avatar
 

Aha. My bad.
Old 12th March 2007
  #17
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juicylime's Avatar
 

Come on Presonus, you answered above so you know this thread is here. Follow up on our above responses please.
Old 12th March 2007
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juicylime View Post
Come on Presonus, you answered above so you know this thread is here. Follow up on our above responses please.
Agreed. Rick, I'd like to hear about this situation direct from the proverbial horse's mouth.
Old 12th March 2007
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juicylime View Post
Come on Presonus, you answered above so you know this thread is here. Follow up on our above responses please.
this is almost a catch 22. imagine how many more manufacturers might post here giving advice on their gear if there wasn't always somebody to pick a bone with them. not to say they're all as bad as a totally unusable interface but, you know..
Old 12th March 2007
  #20
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juicylime's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by treymonfauntre View Post
this is almost a catch 22. imagine how many more manufacturers might post here giving advice on their gear if there wasn't always somebody to pick a bone with them. not to say they're all as bad as a totally unusable interface but, you know..
But that's the difference here. All gearslutz know that all companies can do both bad and good. But the situation with Presonus and the Firestation is above and beyond that though. Plus, if they are willing to come into a public and well respected forum of pro music engineers and informed amateurs to spread the good news about what this unit can still do, they should be prepared to take the flak from those who have been let down by what it can't do and should be able to do.

I can't help wondering if Presonus saw a chance here to try and get a little bit of a positive glow around the Firestation fallout by posting on here so that the search engines would pick it up? A cynical thought, yes. But no where near as cynical as the way Presonus have behaved with the hard earned cash of those who love to make music. I can genuinely relate to every excuse that they have given BUT not one of them, hell, not even all of them of them combined make me think poor Presonus Corporation. No amount of excuses about licenses expiring or unforeseen (??!!) windows XP upgrades is going to make me feel warm and fuzzy about the fact they sold me a machine that I cannot use as it was designed to be used. Well done Presonus and a hearty thanks.
Old 14th March 2007
  #21
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(first, I apologize for the delay in responding since I have been in LA for the last 2 days)

After the Firestation was discontinued, we offered an upgrade program to original customers.

Quote:
Well I missed the upgrade path
Juicy Lime, you mentioned in your first post that you missed out on the upgrade program. Please contact me and I will be glad to offer that to you again.

That also goes for any other Slutz that are original owners of Firestations.

My email address is [email protected].

To give you a little background:
Our company, like Kurzweil, Apogee and a few others licensed the mLAN protocol and purchased chips from Yamaha. Since we were licensees, we were legally not able to change or modify the drivers even if we had wanted to. We built the hardware and Yamaha provided the software and we purchased chips and 'the right' to use the drivers from them. The only thing we could do is report bugs and wait for driver updates from them. And we did....... and so did our customers....

After waiting over a year we felt that there was not going to be a stable driver solution so we did the only thing that we could do: move on and try and upgrade the customers that purchased the original product to one that they could actually use and we could actually stand behind.
Old 14th March 2007
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricknaqvi View Post
(first, I apologize for the delay in responding since I have been in LA for the last 2 days)

After the Firestation was discontinued, we offered an upgrade program to original customers.
Yeah. "Upgrade". $500 (if memory serves correctly) to replace a piece of hardware that was totally defective? Nice. The FirePod lacks some of the niceties of the FIREStation, namely lightpipe. So, if I relied on that format to get other inputs into my computer, the FirePod would not suffice. But, I digress. How can you honestly justify charging a customer ANYTHING (even shipping) to "upgrade" from a device that never worked as intended, marketed, and promised? That does not speak well to the moral fiber of your organization, Mr. Naqvi. The right thing to do would have been an even swap since, at your own admission, you essentially lacked any ability to provide a solution to your customers problems. Bravo, my friend. Well played, indeed.
Old 14th March 2007
  #23
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Actually the upgrade was $300 not $500. And at the time, the product that we were offering the upgrade for had eight preamps, not two.

Yes, I know it was not a full refund. But one of the issues we had with Yamaha was that the chip in the Firestation was not a 100% defective component. It worked perfectly for some and believe it or not still works for some people:

Viewing a list of posts - mLAN Forums. Discuss mLAN issues with people all over the world. - Forums powered by UBB.threadsT

Anyway, if you still have a Firestation and bought it originally, we will upgrade it for you to any of our products.

Thanks,
Old 14th March 2007
  #24
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FIREStation for an ADL-600?
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