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"Loop record" ?? - DAW vocal recording tecniques thread
Old 15th October 2002
  #1
"Loop record" ?? - DAW vocal recording tecniques thread

I had a R&B vocalist used to Logic Audio in a while back and I couldn't give em what they wanted with my PT rig, how do folks set vocalists off and running on 'loop record'?

To me it sounded like sheer hell, a constantly repeating chorus!

I had NO IDEA how the f**k I was going to make head or tail of the zillions of takes / warm ups... It made my head spin!

In truth, the vocalist was half baked and more "way off" than "on" but that is no excuse for my technical ineptness.

How do DAW folks out there do this?

I tend to use my DAW like a tape deck. Shamefully, I'm not so hip with the playlist editing / zippy key commands etc, I usually prefer to create a new track.

Looping? Does it drive you LOOPY!

Old 15th October 2002
  #2
Lives for gear
 

I couldn't agree more Jules. I always try to work with say four tracks that are either kept or wiped over as the session goes on, so that the end comp doesnt induce a nervous breakdown.

I had a guy in last week who is a logic user. Loop record was the order of the day. We ended up with 120 to 130 takes, which we then had to listen back to once the singer had left. Luckily they were ad libs and mostly very short. We binned them like mad til we ended up with a reasonable selection.

There are a few reasons why I think this approach is dodgy for vocals...

Firstly it instills a false sense of security. After a 20 take loop, there is an overwhelming urge to assume that a good take must be in there somewhere. We've got loads so there's bound to be something good. so often not true of course.

Secondly, it doesn't allow time for the part to evolve. The singer is more likely to keep repeating the same thing. Mistakes in the take might be corrected, but the part is not so likely to change.

Thirdly, I have heard a few singers say that they dont mind the long lock up times with tape, because it gives them time to collect themselves. I always try to give people a few moments. Looping totally takes it out of the equation.

In short, I think it turns what should be a process into an event.




If you option click with the selector on the region it gives you the takes list from which you can select a different take. Frustratingly this does not work with the selection icon of the multitask clever whatnot icon. I found this method really frustrating. In the end it was better to create tracks and spot the takes in manually.

If someone has a good way please post!

Jack
Old 15th October 2002
  #3
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davemc's Avatar
 

Yeah been there done that, actually did that last week.
I am a big fan of if you cannot get close in 3 takes then you really need to work on things outside the studio.
Had a guy who would loop record normally 20 takes then would listen to them all and then I would try to cut up words together. Like to-mor-row. Then the next week he would come in scratch them and start again, no wonder I am going bald .

Then you get a great singer and they keep the guide vox with the guitar spill as it has energy.

I agree with a lot of comments, players are no where as good as they were even 5-10 years ago, to much yah you can fix that can't you.
Old 16th October 2002
  #4
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e-cue's Avatar
 

A vocalist that knows about Loop Record can be your worst enemy. You're bound to hear "Well, there was this one ad lib, on this one day, where I did this one thing, that was a double, You know which one I'm talking about?" from the vocalist.

I try to lay my foot down and say something like "We always have better results getting one good take and going from there" but if they insist..."Well, I'll keep recording until I hear one that sounds good.... " Then, I'll let it loop say, 50 times, then stop and go "Why don't we try this one at a time" and then say "YES! PERFECT" after the 1st non-loop recorded one. I'm a bastard sometimes, but I don't like my time wasted by untalented knobs in the studio.
Old 16th October 2002
  #5
Oh OK then!



I bet it is handy for the self producing artists AND singers that REALLY know what they are doing.

Good, I am glad I didn't unleash it on the semi pro I was working with! Man the 'car crash', bogus, pseudo harmonys they were coming out with were enough for several horror soundtracks! Dark & NOT WORKING dosn't get close to describe em! KER-AAAAAASH!

heh
Old 16th October 2002
  #6
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e-cue's Avatar
 

If I hear one more dumbass try to sing a wack Minor harmony on a Major chord... I'm waiting for the day singers can give ME as many recording tips as I can give them singing tips.
Old 16th October 2002
  #7
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5down1up's Avatar
 

in logics loop recording is easy , you define a loop and press record , logic creates a new track to the recorded loop and mutes it . afterward you can listen to it .

why do we need that ? is it any good ?

i dont know , the singers argue that way :

" well i dont have the skills to sing through the whole song "

the editors argue that way :

" well we dont have the time till the performer could sing the song in one take "

as far as i am concerned :

this technique isnt any good . you just have the ability to record something you can spend years on editing and fixing . but thats whats most thoughts are about daws . a tool for idiots making music

if there wouldnt be those machines the record stores wouldnt be that loaded . its a invention made by the devil .
if you listen to " modern music " , most time those songs are just 4 different parts where u dont need the skill to go through the song in fact of emotion and perfromance in 1 take .
you can cut it here and there and this and that .

most studio owners argue that way :

" well we just do what the clients ask for "

... perfect circle

on the other hand , now we have the ability putting a song together in "one day" ( i did that a lot ) , where are all those songs ??? after doing 30 you´ll figure out , that its cool , but you
might be spending more time on the song & arrangment itself instead of looping and cutting here and there . its a hard step to leave the machine off if its right beside you .

just a thought of a lazy boy






peace yall
Old 16th October 2002
  #8
Lives for gear
 

Paris does loop record. Like Logic, it stacks the takes (up to 999, God help us) and only plays back the current recording pass.

I've tried it for various things. Guitar solos, etc. Mostly hated it.

IMO, it's for a person flying solo in a private studio. In that case I can see it making sense, to get into the music without fiddling, then keep the last couple of takes once you know you're in the zone.

But in a "real" situation with a producer/engineer running the gear, it's just a bad idea.

Deferred decision making on steroids. Anybody who wants to record in loop mode should be required to comp it into useable form themselves.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 16th October 2002
  #9
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drundall's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
Man the 'car crash', bogus, pseudo harmonys they were coming out with were enough for several horror soundtracks! Dark & NOT WORKING dosn't get close to describe em! KER-AAAAAASH!

heh
Jules, I feel for ya! Just this weekend I was recording vocals and after staying late a few hours I said I had to go to bed and I couldn't hear anymore. They begged me to START recording harmony vocals, citing the age old "it'll just take 10 minutes". I said nothing takes 10 minutes in the studio, and let a bandmember/logic jedi continue recording the vox in PT. They proceeded to stay 6 HOURS!
In the morning I came in, listened to the tracks, called the producer who had been staying away with strep throat, and told him maybe 30% of it was in tune.

These were actually decent singers, just tired with no objectivity.
Old 17th October 2002
  #10
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Steve Smith's Avatar
 

Jules,

don;t feel bad, I was asked this yesterday, by a cubase user, and i had no idea how to do it.. I generally just creat a couple more tracks, and move em around as nessacary. I could see it useful for guitar solos however, esp when you want to just " let them mess around, learning a part" and don;t want o sit hrough the gruel or risk not have recorded that one good take..
Old 17th October 2002
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
vsl666's Avatar
 

handel with care

yarz it can drive you pottymadd

but it like all things a very usful tool when you know how it works 4 you ...i dont mind looping a section but i am only waiting to hear the one i want ...then i have it .. i dont go thro them all 4 chris sake ! life is most deff to short !

the thing i find it most usful for is if you are DT'ING a particular
line or 2 and they arent getting it tight ...a loop going round and round .. over 2 -4 bars and then they will pick up the timming as there is no escape ....

i guess over whole leads its not much use as you cant talk to them between takes..which certain singers might think is a good thing but we know its not innit tut

fuuck

heh
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