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***Unofficial soundcraft si mixer thread*** Mixers (Digital)
Old 11th April 2017
  #181
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dubwise View Post
An insert can also be an input.
yeah i guess my biggest problem is sort of making alot of this up as i go, not understanding fully the whole process.

basically i have confused myself at this point - like if i wanted to sum my drums and put that eqp-wa eq on the drums - normally one would just run the EQ on an aux send and blend per channel or make a subgroup sya and put the eq on an insert. or a chain of outboard effects for that matter. Richr? I mean unles i have 6 of these things the only way to get it on all the drum channels is to do one of the above.

but with my set up i cant do that at all because of the lack of analogue return options and also bc there are basically no line level i/o's.

which is misleading bc in the manual they say "choose mic or line level" - so for the longest time i was racking my brain trying to figure out hot the hell i get it to be line level. I guess i dont understand the circuitry. If it is mic or line level, what is it that sends the signal one way or the other? I figured it was just some type of pad, if you will. If the signal comes in and it is a certain voltage then the console would simply apply the correct situation. When the input is MIC/Line im referring to.
Old 11th April 2017
  #182
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonWanez View Post
If the signal comes in and it is a certain voltage then the console would simply apply the correct situation.
Never heard of such a thing. Can't imagine how it would tell a loud mic from a very quiet line, or what it would do as something fades in or out.
Old 11th April 2017
  #183
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dubwise View Post
Never heard of such a thing. Can't imagine how it would tell a loud mic from a very quiet line, or what it would do as something fades in or out.
YEAH - i dont understand how the internal circuitry really works. ive been reading trying to understand things vs just playing around with settings (but i do a lot of that).

I guess what i was trying to say was if you look at a schematic and it has an inputs showing mic and Line dB range - what is the mechanism that routes it through one or the other?

If it is the same input (combi jack for instance)
but after seeing your comment i quickly realize the absurdity of my comment. Hahaha -
Old 11th April 2017
  #184
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonWanez View Post
I guess what i was trying to say was if you look at a schematic and it has an inputs showing mic and Line dB range - what is the mechanism that routes it through one or the other?

If it is the same input (combi jack for instance)
Typically on a combi jack, the 1/4" is a line input and the XLR is a mic input. They have separate connections. On some boards, though, like Behringer's XR18, the only difference is whether it gets phantom or not. Same gain, same signal path.
Old 12th April 2017
  #185
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dubwise View Post
Typically on a combi jack, the 1/4" is a line input and the XLR is a mic input. They have separate connections. On some boards, though, like Behringer's XR18, the only difference is whether it gets phantom or not. Same gain, same signal path.
so i have the wqp-wa in the signal chain. have the kick running into the WA-412 then into distressor --->eqp----> Transient Designer. Sounds pretty good but i am got a plan now i think.
Tomorrow I am going to have a nice setup. Buss the drums through the eqp.

I wanted to hook it up with an insert cable but not sure exactly how to do that. If i come out of the distressor with the tip and ring end do i just then plug into the input of the EQP?? Or is it not possible if the EqP doesn't have an insert point?

Reading on the forums it seemed the big issue with that eq was the impedance of whatever was next in the signal chain. If it was higher than 600 ohm your good. But that was an old forum post and on the back there is a switch to change from +6db to +3dB (i would imagine in response to all of that) bc it says in the manual "on the NEWER models" ---- so anyway that is why i tried it that way, to see if it would at least work at all for me.

I cant decide which mics to use where. Right now i have a 57 and little pencil condenser taped together on snare top, AKG 451 as overheads sort of spaced evenly from snare and on each side of kit. Then a Beyer m160 overhead behind me. Have a pair a cascade fatheads facing wall about 10 15 feet away out front. D112 inside and a AKG 414 at the outside but back about 3 or 4 feet. and Sennheisser 421 on rack and floor tom.

I gotta make a sub kick, i found an old intercom speaker, not sure if it will work has transformer on it. it is a Dukane vintage bi-cone?? No idea why it was in my shop, it was probably some job my dad or grandfather did years ago, but i might as well give it a shot. I had a LoFreQ sent it back few days ago and a couple other things to get that EQP-WA.
Old 12th April 2017
  #186
Gear Head
 

do you think it would be a good idea for me to get a small analog board to solve the issues related to having no line levels, essentially no inserts in the Si Impact.

Makes me a bit crazy to think i need to buy a small 1-2 hundred dollar board in order to get my 2-3 thousand dollar board to have what would probably be considered standard features?

I am wondering if i could find a board for instance the Mackie ProFX12v2 that has USB and i maybe be able to use that as an insert return. As well as obviously having some line levels and some actual inserts.

i need to talk with someone and get some input on this idea.

I guess it is either that or buy an audio interface which is maybe the better choice as far as quality of the recordings are concerned.

I need something to get my analog gear in my chain. I really dont want to spend much money, i would rather wait until a digital console that is a good control surface, to make a major upgrade.

I just dont know. But i started gluing up some Maple with some strips of Wenge striping through it last night for my desk. But if i am going to be adding another board i really want to be able to incorporate it into the desk.
Old 13th April 2017
  #187
Gear Maniac
 

I think these boards are just really great for live sound. I don't really know that I'd go with one strictly for recording purposes. I have recorded many live shows with mine with good results but unless your totally committed to running out to something with faders, I think recording with a nice interface and mixing in the box gives a really nice result with less hassle. These are very powerful live boards though. There is not anything else near the price range with the input count or flexibility of routing.
Old 13th April 2017
  #188
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonWanez View Post
do you think it would be a good idea for me to get a small analog board to solve the issues related to having no line levels, essentially no inserts in the Si Impact.

Makes me a bit crazy to think i need to buy a small 1-2 hundred dollar board in order to get my 2-3 thousand dollar board to have what would probably be considered standard features?
.
if you are not using all your inputs or outputs (as well as a stage box) you could certainly create inserts this way.

For inserting plugins, USB or Optical MADI works as well
Old 13th April 2017
  #189
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by benxiwf View Post
I think these boards are just really great for live sound. I don't really know that I'd go with one strictly for recording purposes. I have recorded many live shows with mine with good results but unless your totally committed to running out to something with faders, I think recording with a nice interface and mixing in the box gives a really nice result with less hassle. These are very powerful live boards though. There is not anything else near the price range with the input count or flexibility of routing.
Yeah i agree and my intention when i bought the board was to use it in a live setting exclusively. I got hooked on this idea of building a studio and really sunk myself in full steam.

And because i didn't have, and still dont i supposed, a very good understanding of the entire process i kind of thought "well i will use this as my main console/interface in the studfio as well. And really it does record some very good quality (again, i may not be the best person to determine that).

Then the GAS started and i starrted with a late nigt, somewhat innebriated, purchase of a DW drum se that i had been wanting. Then mics, then, gear and stands and yaddaa yadda yadda.

i will be starting a studio thread soon btw.

Nut really for my needs, has this thing just had any line level inpuss and i would be fine for the time being.

It seems like someone is going to come out with the hybrid console soon. A console that has all features of the digital mixer and also can be a good control surface.


Anyway - do you think i would be better off buying a motu or another AI, or get an analogue mixer that i can incorporate to get my inserts, line levels etc.
If i run out and get 24+ I/O's from a decent AI, ill be in the hole a couple grand at least.

I really am looking at spending like 400 or even less i can.

i cant quite find the right motu unit bc i dont have a multi digital card and the feew i thought would bve right had ADAt i think (cant remember)

I am dying for someone to give me a few suggestions???

Anyone have any ideas?? i am gonna do something by tomorrow, i have to finish this building process and if another mixer is in the cards i need to change the layour of the some things.

so ho about it anyone - throw a few suggestions out there ?
Old 13th April 2017
  #190
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonWanez View Post
Yeah i agree and my intention when i bought the board was to use it in a live setting exclusively. I got hooked on this idea of building a studio and really sunk myself in full steam.

And because i didn't have, and still dont i supposed, a very good understanding of the entire process i kind of thought "well i will use this as my main console/interface in the studfio as well. And really it does record some very good quality (again, i may not be the best person to determine that).

Then the GAS started and i starrted with a late nigt, somewhat innebriated, purchase of a DW drum se that i had been wanting. Then mics, then, gear and stands and yaddaa yadda yadda.

i will be starting a studio thread soon btw.

Nut really for my needs, has this thing just had any line level inpuss and i would be fine for the time being.

It seems like someone is going to come out with the hybrid console soon. A console that has all features of the digital mixer and also can be a good control surface.


Anyway - do you think i would be better off buying a motu or another AI, or get an analogue mixer that i can incorporate to get my inserts, line levels etc.
If i run out and get 24+ I/O's from a decent AI, ill be in the hole a couple grand at least.

I really am looking at spending like 400 or even less i can.

i cant quite find the right motu unit bc i dont have a multi digital card and the feew i thought would bve right had ADAt i think (cant remember)

I am dying for someone to give me a few suggestions???

Anyone have any ideas?? i am gonna do something by tomorrow, i have to finish this building process and if another mixer is in the cards i need to change the layour of the some things.

so ho about it anyone - throw a few suggestions out there ?
Yeah - what all equipment are you trying to use? The impact should be able to handle what you need. It's definitely capable of most things you'd want to accomplish despite my last statement.
Old 13th April 2017
  #191
Lives for gear
 
mintaka007's Avatar
I would skip the outboard gear for now. The impacts pres and converters are right there with most of the normal sub 1000 dollar interfaces anyway. You will get way farther in producing good recordings by learning mic placement, instrument setup and maintenance, proficient use of equipment and compression and solid mixing habits in general than you will by using outboard pre's. Keep your setup simple. Impact, a good laptop and a handful of good mics are really all you need equipment wise. Work on the engineering side first, then as time goes on it will be easier for you to identify what gear you might need or want to move to the next level.
Old 13th April 2017
  #192
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mintaka007 View Post
I would skip the outboard gear for now. The impacts pres and converters are right there with most of the normal sub 1000 dollar interfaces anyway. You will get way farther in producing good recordings by learning mic placement, instrument setup and maintenance, proficient use of equipment and compression and solid mixing habits in general than you will by using outboard pre's. Keep your setup simple. Impact, a good laptop and a handful of good mics are really all you need equipment wise. Work on the engineering side first, then as time goes on it will be easier for you to identify what gear you might need or want to move to the next level.
I am sure your absolutely right. And i kind of knew it all along but it was just drawing me in man. After watching Simon Phillips interviews showing his studio and raving about the Transient designer, and the Emperical labs Distressor - man i just got sucked in.

But i have WA-412, Distressor, Transient Designer, EQP-WA, and Golden Age PRE 73 and EQ 73, I got a JOE MEEK Three Q from this guy who said it was broke - busted out my solder gun for the first time in.... um forever.. hha .. found the part from some random website for 4 bucks (and actually that was cuz i had to buy like 4 of them) and i actually fixed the sucker. MAN I WS PUMPED.. Running the pencil condenser that is on the snare thru the pre and eq, compressor bypassed and it sounds amazing.

But you are right I have been working on things with just the board and its cool man when you figure something out. Like my snare the wires themselves, when I'm ghost notes, they sound like static, just terrible.. So i figured out how to gate them out, but then the track didnt sound right. so i made a duplicate track with the gated snare, and thought maybe i could try using automation or something to make that work. I also saw somewhere someone had the same problem and they went the other way, just got the wire sound in a track, did something to make that sound the way it should and worked it in.

But i figure i need to master eq and compression (i use master extremely loosely HAHA) first.

But you are def right though. I went ape **** and bought a ton of stuff without knowing how to use any, now i need to pull back and discipline myself and work on things in some logical order. Just dont know what that order is yet. I bought a few reaper books as well as other mixing books, so i am just gonna dig in.

I cant send that EQP back though man - i picked out this amazing curley maple and some figured walnut. got them all surfaced and ready glue up this am im gong to get them in the clamps tonight so i can build the sides to the desk. And that gear is just gonna look so good in there. But defitenelty good drum buss gear though - you think??

i am about to go finish up a couple things at office get back by 2 and set everything up again in a new way. Go simple like you said - probably run through the API style pres though .

What do you think about the behringer x22 (the 2/2 bus one)

main reason for the 2/2 over the 3/2 buss is:

Channel inserts and direct outputs on each mono channel plus main mix inserts for flexible connection of outboard equipment the 3/2 just inserts on mono channels

3 aux sends per channel: 1 pre fader for monitoring, 1 pre/post fader switchable for monitoring/FX applications, 1 post fader (for internal FX or as external send)

Clip LEDs, mute, main mix and subgroup routing switches, solo and PFL functions on all channels

2 subgroups with separate outputs for added routing flexibility; 3 multi-functional stereo aux returns with flexible routing sometign was differnet here to i think ~ maybe not seperate outputs, i cant remeber what ~

Balanced main mix outputs with ¼" jack and gold-plated XLR connectors, separate control room, headphones and stereo rec outputs

Control room/phones outputs with multi-input source matrix; rec inputs assignable to main mix or control room/phones outputs


Seems like it would solve all my issues inserts everywhere good routing, Could maybe use it to rout the drum buss to and put a comp and EQ on it.

Its in my amazon cart right now - was waiting for someone to say a motu or Scarlett or something would be a better solution (btw - the octe-pre was one of those things i sent back recently because i dont have the multi-digi card. I had sent back a few things and had the credit on amazon, if my daughter sees it she is liable to use it up on me.

i think i am going to grab it, and send it back if not. they take everything back.. (I have sent back easily 7-10 pieces of gear in last 2 months.
Old 14th April 2017
  #193
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mintaka007 View Post
I would skip the outboard gear for now. The impacts pres and converters are right there with most of the normal sub 1000 dollar interfaces anyway. You will get way farther in producing good recordings by learning mic placement, instrument setup and maintenance, proficient use of equipment and compression and solid mixing habits in general than you will by using outboard pre's. Keep your setup simple. Impact, a good laptop and a handful of good mics are really all you need equipment wise. Work on the engineering side first, then as time goes on it will be easier for you to identify what gear you might need or want to move to the next level.
Man i have been up since middle of the night reading and trying to figure out how the hell i can actually use this outboard gear without spending a **** load more money - but i keep coming back to what you said.

I got way to ahead of myself. I have good mics, i need to finish my studio and do exactly what you said.

But i am still pissed at the fact that the Impact has no Line level inputs and no inserts (traditionally speaking).

at least they should have made a way to be able to upgrade to that. Like if i could put a multi digital card in the stagebox then i could use that like a patchbay, have out board gear run into that and then just bring the signal back digitally on the inserts return. But that wouldn't solve the line level issue. No way to come into the system at line level..

should be someway to mod or get around this without simply buying enough gear that basically is just a stand alone.
Old 14th April 2017
  #194
Lives for gear
 
mintaka007's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonWanez View Post
Man i have been up since middle of the night reading and trying to figure out how the hell i can actually use this outboard gear without spending a **** load more money - but i keep coming back to what you said.

I got way to ahead of myself. I have good mics, i need to finish my studio and do exactly what you said.

But i am still pissed at the fact that the Impact has no Line level inputs and no inserts (traditionally speaking).

at least they should have made a way to be able to upgrade to that. Like if i could put a multi digital card in the stagebox then i could use that like a patchbay, have out board gear run into that and then just bring the signal back digitally on the inserts return. But that wouldn't solve the line level issue. No way to come into the system at line level..

should be someway to mod or get around this without simply buying enough gear that basically is just a stand alone.
The impact was designed as a live board. It has more than good enough eq's/dynamics/FX on board. Many times using outboard gear just introduces more noise with no real increase in quality. I have quite a few outboard pre's, but lately just haven't used them as I have found that the better I have gotten at mixing and recording, the more I realized how little of a difference pres make anymore as the pres that are in current gen digital gear are slmost completely transparent. They reproduce exactly what I give them perfectly.

You would be way better off sending back nearly all this outboard stuff and instead spend that money on monitoring and room treatment (assuming you have good mics). A good monitoring system isn't just the most expensive monitors you can get, but rather a whole system (room, monitors, correct dampening) that best reproduces a mix that translates across many systems. You will see what I'm talking about right away. You will create a mix that sounds great in the studio, then you listen to it in your car and it will be all wonky. Not enough or too much bass is usually the issue, but the subtlety of the midrange is really where a good mix stands out.

For monitors, I run 3 sets. One set I use some 5" 2 ways right at my desk for low volume mixing. I use these the most. Next I have a set of 8" two ways with a sub I use for louder volume mixing and primarily mixing my low end. 3rd I have a home stereo amp with 2 larger bass heavy speakers and 2 super cheap bookshelf speakers. The two little cheapies I have setup to run in mono or stereo. I use these home speakers as a final studio test before the final car stereo run through(which for some weird reason always points out several things to fix).

I was in the same exact boat as you about 8 years ago. Rather than record my band's 3rd album at the studio, I decided to upgrade my stuff to a more professional setup. I bought a crap load of gear that once I learned to mix on my daw better, I never used. I ended up selling almost all my outboard gear, and used that money to upgrade to nicer amps and instruments.(vintage and boutique/ custom). Much easier to mix something that sounds great raw. Another plus is the instruments I now buy only increase in value vs rack gear that for the most part (unless spending big bucks) only depreciates. I invested in mics as well, but steered clear of the real expensive brands. I have close to 100 mics now (about have are for my live setups though). All my mics are under $1000 each. Audio Technica 4000 series, cascade fathead, custom Joly mods, cad e100 etc. Great sounding mics that don't break the bank.

Sorry for the long winded response, I just see you making a lot of the same mistakes I did. My advice for the time being is to skip all this outboard gear and use the impact as strictly an interface. Just the pres and converters into a daw. Don't use any of the onboard FX/dyn/eq's at all. Set you gain correctly and get a good clean full signal into your daw, then you can use plugins. You can use the impact as the interface and as a zero latency monitor board simultaneously. Then focus on what I said above, trying to get the most accurate and best sound you can recorded with no manipulation. Mic placement and choice, quality instruments, amps and players are where good recordings come from.

Hope this helps.
Old 14th April 2017
  #195
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mintaka007 View Post
The impact was designed as a live board. It has more than good enough eq's/dynamics/FX on board. Many times using outboard gear just introduces more noise with no real increase in quality. I have quite a few outboard pre's, but lately just haven't used them as I have found that the better I have gotten at mixing and recording, the more I realized how little of a difference pres make anymore as the pres that are in current gen digital gear are slmost completely transparent. They reproduce exactly what I give them perfectly.

Hope this helps.
It helps a ton man! I very much appreciate the long response.

My first priority was the room initially. I have started working on the space. I read all the books, going to build it pretty much like Rod's book says.

I have torn down all the Sheetrock and doubled up the outside walls from inside bc i didn't want to eff with the siding. I am almost done with this stage right now. double Sheetrock inside all the bays (so no triple leaf), sealed to the bejesus, backer rod, silicone, insulation (pink fluffy).

Then will be hanging the ceiliing using the RSCI clips and hat channel, 2 layers of 5/8 rock with green glue between. Then build another set of walls leaving air space, double 5/8 with green glue again, proper fire stops, wired so that every thing has 2 separate grounds.

I have 25 boxes of owens 703 (various thickness) and 8 packs of 4" rockwool for corner traps. i have started building a QRD 13 and a SKYLINE Diffsuer. i have all the material, a bunch of nice hardwood (cherry, and maple, some really nice curly maple as well, and some wlanut. i have prototyped a few ways to make poly-diffusers. Have a minisplit Temp and Humidity control and air transfer unit. I'm gonna do it right.

I have just gone through so many different layouts and ideas, and no one really to bounce them off.

Lost my dad, wife, and 3 of my kids 2 years ago right around Christmas, so this has been like my way of just completely focusing on something. I stay awake most nights just obsessing. HAHA i think i was started to go insane so i said eff it and set up in my master bedroom. Tell you how much i sleep i took the bed out. HAHA.

I have HS-8's and the sub, and the iloud micro monitor speakers (but i think they may suck) also have cheapy set of Bose computer speakers. But never thought to pull out my old stereo speakers - awesome idea man - Boston Acoustic Speakers, they used to be killer - weigh like 120lb each. and i have my live speaker and monitor system - not that that will do me any good for a mixdown.

I bought some good mics - no where near 100 - damn brother!! I have the fathead matched pair too - love them.

But i think i just got hooked on this outboard **** at the end. Watching all these youtube videos that are basically just dudes creaming over outboard gear you know.

I will start a build thread soon, i just wanted to be a little way in.

Plus if it isn't obvious, i dont have the first clue how to mix.

I really appreciate you taking the time to respond. My daughter is only 7 so she probably thinks i'm a loon, and guys in the band just want me to hurry the f**k up so we have a better room to practice in, but when i try to get their opinions they dont give a ****.

This whole thing started a little over a year ago. I would put my daughter to bed and the silence would set in like the plague man. I hadn't played drums for over 10 years. I had played for 20 years and gigged for 15, owned a nice little bar that did good music. Met my wife sold the bar and never looked back.

One night i was like man i gotta ****ing play, bought a set of the roland td-30's so i could put my daughter to bed and play all night. Nect thing you know one of my old band mates was like i got a couple guys how long b4 you ready to play out again. Got my acoustic kit back out started gigging a few months later then proceeded to go ape **** trying to design a studio.

And here i am -

Now I AM sorry for that long response.

thanks for realing me in though bc your absolutely right.

So how did that album turn out anyway??
Old 14th April 2017
  #196
Gear Head
 

so i can still send this pulteq back, and the WA-412 - you think i should and get a killer monitor speakers?

idk know if i can send the wa-12 back though i love them. But i dont think there is anyway for me to use the EQP-WA
Old 14th April 2017
  #197
Lives for gear
 
mintaka007's Avatar
Wow, sorry to hear about your family. I couldn't imagine.

Something else to think about that I have come back to is the ease of workflow so that you can focus on recording and less time troubleshooting signal routing.

I keep my drumset, bass di, 2 gtr amps Mic'd, vibraphone stereo Mic'd, keyboard L&R, and my keyboard midi controller hooked up all of the time. I have sdc's on my Tom's, a sub kick and a senn e902 on the kick, 57 on snare. I will change my OH's between ribbons and condensers depending on the genre, but the other mics allow me to capture a full enough spectrum that I can eq the drum sound I want. I keep 4 different snares tuned and set up completely differently and change those out based on the song.

I prefer this because it allows my to focus on the performance and I spend way less time messing with outboard pre's/comps etc. I can go straight from the drum track to the bass, pick it up and lay down the bass part.

I use the studio mostly as an idea and songwriting tool. I can get a nice product out of it, but a friend of mine owns and runs an incredible studio with all the super expensive outboard stuff, and he is a ridiculously talented engineer so he knows how to use it. I usually get all my parts down, then we practice and do some rewrites in areas. Once we have it down we will take it to him as he gives us a great deal because he knows he doesn't have to mess around. I send him our recording from my studio to listen to so he understands the vision, so that when we get in there he already has the mics and outboard set up for the song.

I have one of the songs he recorded under my avatar. That was a quick one take we did in his studio and worked out well. I don't think we did a single punch in or fix.

Sounds like you are doing a pretty thorough job on your space, much more intense than I did. I mostly just took many RTA measurements in different positions to find the best place for my monitoring, then fine tuned the reflections I couldn't control with baffles and absorption. Still not perfect by any means, but I am getting better and better at knowing my monitoring and the frequencies it tends to mis-translate.

It is a fun process, and I enjoy the phase of build you are at right now immensely. All the research and new gear is addicting. Most of us here on gearslutz suffer from the same disease.

Good luck and keep us posted on progress, there are many very knowledgeable people here to answer questions as you go.
Old 15th April 2017
  #198
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mintaka007 View Post
Wow, sorry to hear about your family. I couldn't imagine.

Something else to think about that I have come back to is the ease of workflow so that you can focus on recording and less time troubleshooting signal routing.
yeah man that would be amazing. When you go to play and you have 30 min of effin around to get where you want to be - sometimes at that point you just dont feel it anymore - or at very least major pain in the ass.

Dude i like the band, music sounds amazing - must be some good shows - good feel stuff.

I am absolutely gong to try to have it set up once things are done in the studio. To drop in and just start playing is a huge benefit.

There of course will be times i designate to experiment, but if i want to play my instrument, not be the engineer (used that word for lack of a better one cuz engineer i am not), to just sit behind the kit, or pick up the bass - boom! couldn't agree more, and i cant wait till i am there.

Dude - crazy that you are a furniture builder - Try not to make this long but - i was a pharmacist - **** happened with my dad i came home to help with the construction business - then wife - so i ended up staying to run the business.

But i am trying like hell to transition into building furniture, cabinets, etc.
Set the shop up to be more of a wood shop, and i am doing what and when i can.
we do a lot of kitchens and i am dying to get to the point where instead of giving 20-30k to someone else for the cabinetry - I CAN MAKE THEM!! getting close.
ok way off topic sorry.

Your band sounds great. Are you still giging? that video was a few years back right?



cool - have a great Easter All!!
Old 15th April 2017
  #199
Gear Head
 

OK
I am not sure if this makes any difference to anyone but maybe someone would be interested.

So this whole trim/gain thing is driving me nutzo. It is probably d/t my lack of experience and/or skills but anyway.

So this is what i am doing. Since i am tracking myself playing the drums and it is a pain in the ass to hone **** in (i am using remote app on the i pad so that is sweet). But still, to stop make a change ---- listen while your playing, not the best for me to learn and/or dial it in.

So i am recording some drum tracks. then i send each one back to the board from REAPER, and then i can use the DSP in the Si Impact to set levels and dynamics etc. AND have some hands on mixing.

So i dont have the work flow for this down completely yet. But i am getting there. I assume i will need to get the patchbay into the mix in order to use outboard gear when mixing drums as they return from the DAW. Since the only way i can have some of the outboard gear in a signal chain is to route through each component physically. (BC of the no Line In and no Insert availability on the Si Impact), i am thinking i will need to use patch bay unless i want to switch XLR inputs behind the gear when i sit at the desk to mix. have an XLR thru bay and a regular patch bay so can normal, thru, and half normal.

So the POINT:

Every track that returns from reaper i was setting the levels coming back. (BTW would I want to stay at -18 the whole way? That was what i was going for.)

So as i am setting the levels across each track , i think "ok this must be trim now bc it is returning digital ~ which is apparently the only way you get the line level on the Impact.

So yep of course they are all trim - except 8 - it is GAIN????? i have triple checked the routing, the settings, you name it. Channel 8 source, signal path, etc, is no different than any other channel - but it is hitting gain??? cant figure it out.

Just thought that was interesting. Maybe a system glitch??
Old 15th April 2017
  #200
Lives for gear
 
mintaka007's Avatar
I use 2 profire 2626's for interfaces and protools as my DAW, but I will tell you how I run my signal flow :

Set the gains at the inputs (if going directly into the impact, set gain on impact, if using outboards and running into it digitally, set your gain at the outboard pre's and set the trim on the digital input on the impact to unity). For digital stuff, I gain stage so my peaks are around -12 (different from old analog days of peaking at 0).

The daw then records these inputs pre-processing, this way the only thing that effects that signal is the gain setting on the input. You set this up on the madi/USB card or the multidigital card, and on the channel menu it shows as direct outputs.

I then use aux channels for my headphone monitors while recording. You can have I believe 14 or 16 individual monitor mixes on the impact. You have to mute the channels on the daw as if you don't you run into latency issues. Monitoring directly from the impact is zero latency.

Once in the daw as raw tracks, then I eq, compress, FX etc. The trick is getting the best possible recording dry by using correct mics in the right placement. I shoot for a good enough raw track recording that is sounds good by mixing levels only, no plugins. That way when you use plugins their job is to enhance and clarify, not fix.

Not sure if this answers your question, but figured I would lay out a very common signal flow scenario to make sure that isn't causing you problems.

I use a sound craft performer for live recording, which is similar to the impact but not exactly the same. I am thinking about bringing it into the studio, but haven't pulled the trigger yet as I would have to rewire my whole studio setup.
Old 15th April 2017
  #201
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mintaka007 View Post
I use 2 profire 2626's for interfaces and protools as my DAW, but I will tell you how I run my signal flow :

Set the gains at the inputs (if going directly into the impact, set gain on impact, if using outboards and running into it digitally, set your gain at the outboard pre's and set the trim on the digital input on the impact to unity). For digital stuff, I gain stage so my peaks are around -12 (different from old analog days of peaking at 0).

The daw then records these inputs pre-processing, this way the only thing that effects that signal is the gain setting on the input. You set this up on the madi/USB card or the multidigital card, and on the channel menu it shows as direct outputs.

I then use aux channels for my headphone monitors while recording. You can have I believe 14 or 16 individual monitor mixes on the impact. You have to mute the channels on the daw as if you don't you run into latency issues. Monitoring directly from the impact is zero latency.

Once in the daw as raw tracks, then I eq, compress, FX etc. The trick is getting the best possible recording dry by using correct mics in the right placement. I shoot for a good enough raw track recording that is sounds good by mixing levels only, no plugins. That way when you use plugins their job is to enhance and clarify, not fix.

Not sure if this answers your question, but figured I would lay out a very common signal flow scenario to make sure that isn't causing you problems.

I use a sound craft performer for live recording, which is similar to the impact but not exactly the same. I am thinking about bringing it into the studio, but haven't pulled the trigger yet as I would have to rewire my whole studio setup.

Helps a ton - thank you!!!

I am still trying to figure out which mics are best to use one what.

The mics i have that i am trying to use in various places on the kit

AKG 451 matched pair
Cascade fathead matched pair
AKG 414 - 1
Senn - e604 x3
Senn - 421
AKG D112
SM 57 - x3
SM 57 Grannelli - 1
AT 3035 - 2
AT Elite 2500 Dual Element Bass drum - 1 (actually sounds great on the snare)
SM 81 - 1
Beyer M160 - 1
Samson CO2 Pencil Condenser (have one taped to a 57 on snare sounds great believe it or not)


I should send that EQP - WA back and get another 421 - what you think?
I have Izotope Music Production Bundle II - which is pretty good i think
and Amplitube - deluxe or whatever the big one was called. Havent got to use ITB stuff yet that much- a little but i gotta get good tracks first.

----also have-----
Avantone CV12
Blue Encore
Sm 58 - 2
Senn e 835 (cheapy vocal mic sounds pretty good live though)
dbx rta mic - for room measurements when studio ready

thanks again man!!
Old 17th April 2017
  #202
Gear Head
 

Is anyone aware of how you would use plugins with the Si Impact?

I was corresponding with a representative from Soundcraft regarding the lack of any Line level inputs and the inserts.Turns out there are NO analog line level inputs as the board was not designed to be used with analog gear.

The insert function was designed to work with plugins. This is why it will only accept a digital source as the return. Does anyone know how you would do this? Does this mean that we would essentially be able to use plugins with this board? This could be huge!!
Old 17th April 2017
  #203
Lives for gear
 
mintaka007's Avatar
If you are using it in the studio with your daw, you would just use the plugins in your daw on the raw recorded signal. If you used plugins on the board first then into your daw, you could not go back and change or manipulate them as the would be part of the .wav, which is definitely not ideal.

As a live board being able to use plugins would be nice, but as a studio board you are pretty much just using the impact for its pre's and converters.
Old 17th April 2017
  #204
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonWanez View Post
Does this mean that we would essentially be able to use plugins with this board?
On the expression one defines a send/return pair to a usb output (send) and back using a usb input (return).
Old 18th April 2017
  #205
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mintaka007 View Post
If you are using it in the studio with your daw, you would just use the plugins in your daw on the raw recorded signal. If you used plugins on the board first then into your daw, you could not go back and change or manipulate them as the would be part of the .wav, which is definitely not ideal.

As a live board being able to use plugins would be nice, but as a studio board you are pretty much just using the impact for its pre's and converters.
Yeah good point re: Live and Studio. I guess i was thinking or wondering if the Impact had the functionality to use plugins with it that run in another device (besides the computer running DAW). If the inserts were created to use plugins i thought maybe there was something else that ran the plugins and could be used as the insert.

I guess i haven't had time to think about it enough so i probably shouldn't be commenting. But like the Real time rack for instance- is that running the plugins?
Or if the inserts are set up to be used with plugins how on earth would i just set a specific plugin up on the insert channel? I could see running it into the daw putting the plugin on the track and then coming back in on another channel or even the same channel on the Direct input patch.
But I dont think that makes any sense to set up these inserts on tthis board and then use them that way.

I guess it seems to me like they [Soundcraft] Lost track of something when designing this board. Or i should say kind of added these things without really having the ability to deliver, and just haven't had anyone call them on it.

The manual refers to Mic Level, Line Level OR Digital returns in numerous places. And to say that the inserts were designed to be used with plugins would seem like they had something else in mind, like the Real Time Rack or something.

But where is it? who uses the inserts on the Impact? Anyone?
Has anyone ever used an Insert on the impact?? Are these 22 channels unusable??? Did the Impact sort of get a bunch of various functions from the other Si boards mashed into it without really having ways to use them?

Is the Impact the Red-Headed Step Child of the Expression and the Performer that never got picked up after school one day?? HAHA - but really??

I mean i cant seem to get an answer? i would love to know the options?
Old 18th April 2017
  #206
Gear Head
 

How about the Magenta Fader Glow color for stereo Input patched as a LINE source other than FX???
Old 18th April 2017
  #207
Gear Head
 

Is it possible to run from the usb/madi to like an octepre use that for any line level source then return thru the same USB to the Impact? i dont know how the ends of the usb send/recieve data bc you would have to have USB-B on both ends.
Old 23rd April 2017
  #208
Here for the gear
 

Hi Community I'm selling my SI Performer 2!

Excellent 100% working condition! Thanks to the Thon hard case the console is in A-grade shape only having a few normal little scuffs on the silver plastic edges due to normal use.

I have loved this desk very much - perfect size, weight and packed with features - only selling due to the fact that it does not get used as often as it should anymore...

Included in Sale:
• Thon Hardcase which includes back cable tidy box.
• Si Performer 2
• Expansion card MADI-USB
• Desk Accessory kit which includes: Desk LED Light, Dust cover and mini Whiteboard
• Printed out manuals
• Power cable

Thon Hardcase is in 100% fulling working order - only few marks and scuffs to normal use. Very good condition.
Specs here: https://www.thomann.de/…/thon_mixcas...performer_2…

I can send photos to anyone interested.

Location: Edinburgh
Available to arrange a viewing/pickup or willing to work out a delivery method with buyer.

07825161258
£4000
Old 27th April 2017
  #209
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonWanez View Post
Is it possible to run from the usb/madi to like an octepre use that for any line level source then return thru the same USB to the Impact? i dont know how the ends of the usb send/recieve data bc you would have to have USB-B on both ends.
Nope. Host device and client device are two different things. You can run plugins on a laptop. Latency issues may or may not be a problem, depending on the plug-in, the host app, and the speed of the laptop.
Old 27th April 2017
  #210
Gear Head
 

New VISI app. Seems to be bringing the Vi consoles up to speed. New Impact firmware around the corner to give it the capability of mixing many more channels.
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