The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
2" Tape is dead long live Pro Tools!!!
Old 18th October 2002
  #121
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Han
2"tape sucks, do you ever get (very) tired of yourself?
NO!

Look out MR. HAN there is something wrong with your face, you are falling apart, and have you ever heard about coconutbutter. You better use it before your face starts to decompose, I already see some crap coming out of your mouth. Hmm it looks to me there is some kind of diss-function in your brain and you just can not control the crap slowly riding down your lame ass decomposed face. I am lol grggt
Old 18th October 2002
  #122
Come on guys - dont make me have to go in and edit posts for rudeness.

Han do a bit of editing please!

Back on topic please.

Old 18th October 2002
  #123
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
Come on guys - dont make me have to go in and edit posts for rudeness.

Han do a bit of editing please!

Back on topic please.

Sorry Jules, it will not happen again, I just woke up and was just Joking around.

My apaologies to MR. HAN did'nt mean to freak you out with my incredible imagination, I use my incredible imagination when I'm composing new music. But sometimes it get all worked up, peace my dear gearslut, we are on the same side of the fence here. So let us be friends and buy some more gear, alright

Jules could you please give some new info on the cranesong STC-8 and Trakker, I don't know how to choose between them.

Thanx once again for this great forum Jules
Old 18th October 2002
  #124
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Smith

umm,, hire a an 85 voice choir and Bruce Sweiden?

Yeah, like that dude has done anything cool since Thriller. Not to mention the fact that he's turned into twice the asshole he was BEFORE Thriller.
Old 18th October 2002
  #125
Han
Lives for gear
 

No problemo mister two inch sucks It was not ment to offend you also.

I come from the north of Holland where people are very straight, so I'm used to it

Jules, what do you want me to edit and how? (and why?)

(I'm a tape slut!) grggt
Old 18th October 2002
  #126
Gear Head
 
kushan_ku's Avatar
 

Jules, I request that you make this thread an ex-thread . All this love is making me
Old 18th October 2002
  #127
Few more posts and this boring page will be an OLD page!

It was always going to get messy...

Jules



I dont know the Tracker, but other folks on here have that AND the STC 8 so will advise you!

Old 18th October 2002
  #128
Moderator emeritus
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Neve Sucks!
oooooverdubs.....2 background vocalists and 85 tr of protools. Not a gospel choir......
The most I've ever done along those lines was 5 passes of 6 voices. But they were stereo passes, using a Soundfield... it sounded big - not like a choir, necessarily, but plenty damned big...
Old 18th October 2002
  #129
Moderator emeritus
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules

I dont know the Tracker, but other folks on here have that AND the STC 8 so will advise you!

I only had the chance to play with the STC-8 for a couple of weeks - fairly amazing (and I suspect that it only becomes more amazing as you get to know it better), but I've had Trakkers for a couple of years. No complaints at all, either for tracking or mixing. I'd go for the Trakkers first.
Old 19th October 2002
  #130
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Dave, did you ever get around to trying the Daking compressors on the mix buss?
Old 19th October 2002
  #131
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by kushan_ku
Jules, I request that you make this thread an ex-thread . All this love is making me

GEARSLUTZ UBBER ALLIES!!!
Old 19th October 2002
  #132
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
Dave, did you ever get around to trying the Daking compressors on the mix buss?
I have, and they are great on the mix bus, I even used it on Mastering. I own a pair Daking compressors and a pair of Daking EQ.s. They are also my favourite outboard to use for any drums, it just makes the drums sound excellent.
Old 19th October 2002
  #133
Moderator emeritus
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
Dave, did you ever get around to trying the Daking compressors on the mix buss?
Busted! But I'm doing to be pulling up some mixes this afternoon or tomorrow, and I'll try the Dakings. I'm sending the Vari-Mu out on Monday for the T Bar Mod, so I'll want to do it this weekend.
Old 19th October 2002
  #134
Lives for gear
 
drundall's Avatar
 

This year I've done mostly PT sessions. This week I'm doing a record on 2". The band rocks and I did only 1 tape edit. Sounds great. They're sort of a late '70s rock thing.
Last week I recorded a band to PT who wanted to go in analog but I knew there would be extensive editing. They're really fast complex punk rock with lots of vocal harmonies, more of a modern sound.

Each format's a tool. Use the right tool for the job.

These "best" format discussions are bull****, IMHO.dfegad
Old 20th October 2002
  #135
Lives for gear
 
Mixerman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
"- Drum punch ins & especially outs are a royal PITA on tape IMHO

(drum punch OUTS) "That's one advantage with a DAW."

Jules


"Nonsense! (I figure as long as everyone else is being loud on this thread, I can too...)"

Dave Martin

Ooops! My bad, I meant to say 'with DIGITAL'....

It's my experience that I can't do just what I want on 2" in the heat of the session without leaving a hole in the cymbal tracks whatever brand of machine. (of course I have had punch outs which didnt leave a hole, but the whole affair is frought on tape and not - on digital)

With DIGITAL (my clarification) you dont need to do any 'plate spinning tricks' like inserting leader or screwing around chopping different takes together on different tape reels. You can just nail the **** on the fly see if it will work there and then & move on....

This type of chatter may draw out the infamous Mixerman BTW.

Punching drums on 2" is no big deal, unless you're doing it on an old Ampex ATR24.

Yes, there is skill required. God forbid anything require skill or practice these days.

Sometimes I'll punch drums if it's the tag that fell apart, but I usually don't go into the middle of a perfectly good take save one section and punch the drums. I'd rather the drummer play the whole song down again, and take the piece from the other performance, if not the entire other performance. I don't do this because punching is a problem. I do it because performance in this manner can be a problem.

Look. 2" has it's disadvantages. Sound typically isn't one of them. With DAW's I find that I have to jump through all sorts of hoops to keep the sound quality up.

Really, it all comes down to one's taste in hoop jumping.

Mixerman
Old 18th November 2002
  #136
Gear Maniac
 
Jim Roberts's Avatar
Recently had success with McDSP Analog Channel. Using it on stereo Aux busses for different groups of tracks.
Old 21st November 2002
  #137
Lives for gear
 
Curve Dominant's Avatar
Quote:
Without fanning any flames, I kinda took Jon's assesment not as slam, but an acknowledgement of the general lack of training of home studio guys. Most home studio guys wouldn't know how to properly transfer stuff to or from 2" tape, don't understand proper gain staging, don't have properly treated rooms, etc...
As a "home studio guy," I can attest to this, taken generally.

But here's the caveat: Just because we don't know what we're doing doesn't mean we will fail.

My introduction to DAW recording was in producing a soundtrack to a dance performance that is currently on a 20-city nationwide tour. The artistic director of the dance company tells me the shows are SRO, and the press reviews are positive.

I've won the ASCAP Standard Composer Award for the last 4 years for this one 15-minute long piece.

If a budget for a 2" tape studio was required, this performance would not have ever existed.

On a labor/return ratio, dance performance is the least profitable of all the arts, and therefore the hardest sustainable of all the arts.

Yet, 70,000+ audience members will have attended this performance across the US this year.

How much more "real" a client do I need to be to get a membership to the country club? Ditch composing orchestral works altogether? And compose 3-minute long profanity-laced misogynist / homophobic / race - baiting / lowest-common-denomitator-catering pop music instead? Then I can get into a 2" tape recording studio, where only the "real" artists record?

But that would require un-learning the skill and practice required to successfully compose 15-minute long works. Yes, there is skill required. God forbid anything require skill or practice these days.

This thread was truly a fascinating read. Someone should bundle it up and seal it in a time-capsule with those 2" tape machines.

YMMV.
Old 21st November 2002
  #138
Gear Head
 

Cool man
Old 21st November 2002
  #139
Jax
Lives for gear
 

Eric,

Your last post... excellent.

Old 21st November 2002
  #140
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 

Jackson . . . a kid came into my place once with ONE box. He wanted to download what he had inside it and lay down some vocals. A Korg synth module that I had one of as well.

He plugged that thing in . . . . . hit play and blew my mind! I was looking for all the other module and boxes he HAD to have hidden somewhere. I mean I had one of those boxes and I never heard mine do anything close!! I asked him how in the hell he did all that in that one box. . . . . he said it was all in the manual (which I had never read! *lol*)

In other words . . . . . music, valid music can be done in all kinds of modules and formats. Personally, I like 2" tape for certain music . . . . . but that doesn't mean one box can't kick some big fat ass in the right hands. Hell this kid kicked my ass all over the studio with ONE box.
Old 21st November 2002
  #141
Jax
Lives for gear
 

Talent and artistry. You either got it or ya don't!
Old 21st November 2002
  #142
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 

or the patience to read a manual . . . which I don't have

*smile*
Old 21st November 2002
  #143
Jax
Lives for gear
 

"Reading manuals does not a masterpiece make." - anonymous
Old 21st November 2002
  #144
Lives for gear
 
groundcontrol's Avatar
 

Certainly not but it should be somewhat mandatory checking it sometimes before posting stupid questions all over the freaking web...

That was my rant of the day, now back to our regular slaging-err, I mean programming...
Old 21st November 2002
  #145
jon
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 

I don't know, Eric, was your point that knowing what you're doing doesn't matter (disagree), or that classical work requires talent (agree)?

What is with the country club stuff? And the (tired) cliches about rap/pop music?

Some thoughts to ponder. Analog tape will still be readable in 15-25 years. Today's DAW of the day will be long gone. Tape machines aren't more expensive than good ProTools rigs. There are masses of digi dudes and relatively fewer analog dudes. Tape is less convenient to edit and manipulate, but sounds musical and flattering. Digital is very convenient, particularly for non-performance-based audio, but has relative sonic issues. Some formats work better for some contexts. Some contexts have specific needs that dictate the choice of format.

Drama aside, I don't see what the big deal is. For your composing work, tape would be pointless. It might add a nice color at mixdown or when tracking an orchestra, but it's certainly less essential than your composition and arrangement.
Old 22nd November 2002
  #146
Lives for gear
 
Steve Smith's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by jon
but it's certainly less essential than your composition and arrangement.
format is never essential, compositionis allways essential ( in my book, and I suspect yours as well?)
Old 22nd November 2002
  #147
Lives for gear
 
Curve Dominant's Avatar
Quote:
I don't know, Eric, was your point that knowing what you're doing doesn't matter (disagree), or that classical work requires talent (agree)?

What is with the country club stuff? And the (tired) cliches about rap/pop music?

Some thoughts to ponder. Analog tape will still be readable in 15-25 years. Today's DAW of the day will be long gone. Tape machines aren't more expensive than good ProTools rigs. There are masses of digi dudes and relatively fewer analog dudes. Tape is less convenient to edit and manipulate, but sounds musical and flattering. Digital is very convenient, particularly for non-performance-based audio, but has relative sonic issues. Some formats work better for some contexts. Some contexts have specific needs that dictate the choice of format.

Drama aside, I don't see what the big deal is. For your composing work, tape would be pointless. It might add a nice color at mixdown or when tracking an orchestra, but it's certainly less essential than your composition and arrangement.


__________________
Jon Atack
Capitol Studios, Paris
Jon,

Those are good points you've made. You often make good points, and that's one of the things I like about you.

My point was to illustrate the essential yet often under-appreciated and underestimated place that independent DAW-based artists have in this business of ours.

Indie artists look to the DAW as a revolutionary tool, an enabler. Many of us have had experiences with big analog studios which have left us cold, for many reasons. It offers us no solace to be told that, in theory, analog sounds better; not when in practice the analog studios haven't served us well.

We keep hearing how most of us don't know what we're doing. But for many of us, we have had experiences with analog engineers the majority of whom didn't know what THEY were doing.

I'm not saying YOU don't know what you're doing - I KNOW you do.

I'm just trying to help you understand why this debate goes round and round with seemingly no resolution in sight.

It's because one format only has supremacy over another In Theory. In practicality - in the real world - all bets are off.

My feeling is more mutual respect is due all around. The playing field is fairly level. We should all be trying to get along, and working together. We are all in this sh!t together.
Old 22nd November 2002
  #148
Lives for gear
 
C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

well said eric
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
kilon / Electronic Music Instruments and Electronic Music Production
2
kieran kelly / Music Computers
4
bcgood / Music Computers
15

Forum Jump
Forum Jump