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Lots of drums, not a lot of mics
Old 8th February 2007
  #1
Gear Nut
 

Lots of drums, not a lot of mics

So I'm going to be recording a drummer with a huge kit for the first time. Most of the kits I've done have been 5-piece's. So I have 8 pre's, not enough money to expand to more unfortunately before this project. I want to be able to assess each drum individually while editing, but I won't be able to close mic each one. Should I do the "1 for two" mic vs tom setup? Any other options? If I did the 1 for 2 setup, I suppose I could separate the tracks in 'tools as if they were mic'd individually, as long as they aren't hit simultaneously. What do you guys think?

Thanks for all the help!
Old 8th February 2007
  #2


Put up a stereo pair and then used the other 6 channels for what you think will be most important.

I'd go with a kick and probably a snare. The other 4 mics you'll have to decide.

Have you recorded this guy before?



-tINY

Old 8th February 2007
  #3
Gear Nut
 

Thanks for the advice tINY. No, I haven't recorded this guy before, but I know him pretty well. He really wants that tight-close sound for his drums, which i have no problem with. I was considering room mic'ing the toms but that sort of takes away from the close element. Any more ideas? Thanks a lot.
Old 8th February 2007
  #4
Lives for Jesus
 
stevep's Avatar
Mabe have him use a small kit, 2 toms should be enough ....... shouldent it ?

if not just use one mic for 2 toms



most guys with huge kits dont play every drum anyway, there mostly live drummers



course i still use at least 13 tracks for drums with a 2 tom kit ......... so dont listen to me heh



Old 8th February 2007
  #5
Lives for gear
 
numrologst's Avatar
you really don't need all the toms miked if you can't....

My top session drummer usually uses 1 of my 13" rack toms, and my 16" floor tom... And he is not limited in any way... I guess it all depends on style though... If he needs it then he needs it.

But you should be able to get nice kit sounds without any close mics... Put a mid-room room mic... if you do it right, it will make the toms sound huge... Again just personal preference.

You could always use something like a 414 in between 2 toms
Old 8th February 2007
  #6
Gear Maniac
 

I'd Mic overheads, snare, kick drum and spread the rest of the 4 channels on the most important tons, and maybe a mic at the shell of the snare, if it's available. If anything else is needed, just use samples if he wants stuff really tight.
Old 8th February 2007
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Chris's Avatar
I'm going to be recording this set pretty soon. I'm used to about half. I'm going to need more mics.


Old 8th February 2007
  #8
Gear Addict
 

DANG!

My theory is that there is 1 set of roto toms in the world. Each drummer has owned them at one time. I had them when i was 16. Got rid of them when I was 17. Looks like this guy got them in the last 15 years.

That's a lot of B8 cymbals. Lots of dead toms too. I am guessing this guy plays a lot of live shows but doesn't track too often.

Let us know how it goes.
Old 8th February 2007
  #9
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecsound View Post
So I'm going to be recording a drummer with a huge kit for the first time. Most of the kits I've done have been 5-piece's. So I have 8 pre's, not enough money to expand to more unfortunately before this project. I want to be able to assess each drum individually while editing, but I won't be able to close mic each one. Should I do the "1 for two" mic vs tom setup? Any other options? If I did the 1 for 2 setup, I suppose I could separate the tracks in 'tools as if they were mic'd individually, as long as they aren't hit simultaneously. What do you guys think?

Thanks for all the help!
How good is this drummer? Is he a basher? Does he lean into his hat? I would think that not having a hat mic would be a safe bet.

I would do kick, snare, oh, oh, rest for toms.

how many toms? if he has 2 floors, chances are that he is going to hit those together more than other toms. (double floor tom hits).

it's a drummer thing...you wouldn't understand.
Old 8th February 2007
  #10
Lives for Jesus
 
stevep's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by daryllh View Post
DANG!


That's a lot of B8 cymbals. Lots of dead toms too. I am guessing this guy plays a lot of live shows but doesn't track too often.

Let us know how it goes.





Hi Daryl,


Old 8th February 2007
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Chris's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by daryllh View Post
DANG!

My theory is that there is 1 set of roto toms in the world. Each drummer has owned them at one time. I had them when i was 16. Got rid of them when I was 17. Looks like this guy got them in the last 15 years.
Funny you mention it. I think he's 16. Maybe if I hold out a year he won't have them.

And I'll let you know how it goes if I survive...
Old 8th February 2007
  #12
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevep View Post




Hi Daryl,


wasss happenin' bro!

Old 8th February 2007
  #13
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
Funny you mention it. I think he's 16. Maybe if I hold out a year he won't have them.

And I'll let you know how it goes if I survive...
Alex Van Halen had a great muse about roto toms. He got them when they started recording VH2 (I think). Said that he stuck em up under a cymbal and realized that after awhile, he wasn't even using them.

I'd be more concerned about the 16 year old hitting the drums hard enough. Prepare to use the phrase 'don't be afraid to beat the hell outta those f*&$%@*!' before each take. hehe
Old 8th February 2007
  #14
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Any other options?
The only other thing I can think of that hasn't been mentioned is submixing the toms.
Old 8th February 2007
  #15
Gear Nut
 

kates, by submixing (with my 002r) what do you propose?
Old 8th February 2007
  #16
Lives for gear
 
seaneldon's Avatar
 

submixing won't do anything if he doesn't have enough mic pres to track all of the drums separately.

in all honesty though, if the dude can't bring the pain with 3 toms or less, he should smallify his kit and practice.
Old 8th February 2007
  #17
Lives for gear
 

i'd do 2 on the kick, 1 on snare, 2x OH and then mic whatever toms he'll be using in the song......and change the tom mics around depending on what he hits for each song. few drummers hit all of their toms on every song--spend some time on the arrangements and parts. sounds like he wants more of an "immediate" (aka close mic'd) sound, so i'd probably skip the room mic--although room mics can be a definitely secret weapon.

really, though, if you can't get a solid drum recording out of 3 mics (kick, snare and mono overhead), something's wrong (be it the room, drummer, drums, engineer, etc).

everything else, IMO, is gravy. i've heard lots of 3-track drum recordings that were far better sounding (and far less of a phasey mess) than a lot of 14-track drum recordings. YMMV.


cheers,
wade
Old 8th February 2007
  #18
Lives for gear
 
firby's Avatar
 

Just get a good sound with overs and snare and kick. THen fill in with the other stuff.

Careful with the overheads those cymbals are going to be nasty loud/thick. Make sure the kick(s) and snares are tuned and try get new heads on the toms those pinstripe type heads only last a week or two before they get dead and boring.
Old 8th February 2007
  #19
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by seaneldon View Post

in all honesty though, if the dude can't bring the pain with 3 toms or less, he should smallify his kit and practice.
therein lies the problem with a lot of drummers.
Old 8th February 2007
  #20
Lives for gear
 

By submixing I just meant to use/borrow/rent a small mixer (it's cheap) and send a submix of the toms to two of his digi INs. Not saying that's what I would do - but just offerreing another option
Old 9th February 2007
  #21
Lives for gear
 

Never underestimate the modest mono overhead.



Quote:
Originally Posted by daryllh View Post
DANG!


That's a lot of B8 cymbals.

HAHAHA! They are the first thing I noticed in that picture. Then I cringed!
Old 9th February 2007
  #22
Lives for Jesus
 
stevep's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by seaneldon View Post

in all honesty though, if the dude can't bring the pain with 3 toms or less, he should smallify his kit and practice.
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