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Master reverb users
Old 7th April 2016
  #1
Gear Addict
 

Master reverb users

How many of you are sending a little of everything to a master reverb and why do you do it?
If so, what type of reverb?
Old 7th April 2016
  #2
Gear Addict
 

Only one? Try two or three.

If all the tracks have their own appropriate reverb,
Then I'd lightly use a Plate for the Tail, and something short for Reflections. (Lexicon Exteriors have some nice shorts.)
Also, you'd make several Pre-delay channels to feed into the Reverbs. The technique is to fit all the tracks in between the reverbs so that they sit spatially

It really glues the thing together into one space.

You can lightly use Global Reverb in order to glue, or you could also heavily utilize many global reverbs for the bulk of your reverb.
Old 7th April 2016
  #3
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Very interesting.
Do you set different delay times on the pre delay channels.
Old 7th April 2016
  #4
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Pred80r's Avatar
 

Master Reverbs

I like to have a drum verb
vocal verb
BG vocal verb

Each verb is on its own stereo aux.
Each channel of other instruments also sends to the room/master verb but at a little bit more +4 to +8 db signal strength than the stems i mentioned above that already contain reverb, are going to the room/master verb.

People talk about "glue" but I just try to make it sound like the band is in the same room when they are performing.

For VO and movie post production please disregard this configuration, You can have a car on a city street, a band playing BG music and a narrator who isn't connected to either, no "glue" or cohesiveness required AND usually it works better with the disjointed sound..especially if you are mixing in 5.1 or 7.1.


But whatever makes the client happy is always the correct answer...
Old 7th April 2016
  #5
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nevefreak's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiofool View Post
How many of you are sending a little of everything to a master reverb and why do you do it?
If so, what type of reverb?
probably consider learning about ambient micing or chambers before resorting to such things. Last resort a plate or something. I know people did this in the mid 1980s with stuff not unlike flock Seagulls or Winger but lucky this technique is now a lost 'art'.

I'm not trying to be difficult but using digital reverb over real ambience is amateur night. It's a bad habit just like compressing a whole mix or compressing every channel or using auto-tune on everything or sampling all your drums.

I'm not implying everything should always be 100% natural, but the goal of professional recording is to capture things as they actually sound in the room or a real space. If you don't like the way the instruments sound as they really do, then use different instruments and/or get someone else to play the instruments the way you feel they should sound.

IMO if you think you need digital reverb on everything then one ask yourself what is your goal?? You should avoid putting digital reverb on all tracks at all costs. It makes your mixes sound cheap and tinny. You need to use verb often on vocals but anything else you should re-assess the tracking technique or initiatives unless you are going for a special effect. When I did soundtracks for games and animations it was a blast flooding everything to get different depths. Inserting delays before an after reverb was fun, but you don't do that with real organic music. It's ok if you do some kind of techno thing I suppose. But not with rock and roll or jazz or metal or classical or any real music.

You want to capture things as they really sound, otherwise what you are capturing is obviously wrong in your context
Old 7th April 2016
  #6
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robert82's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexy Rex View Post
Only one? Try two or three.

. . . or you could also heavily utilize many global reverbs for the bulk of your reverb.
Are you running these in parallel or "stacked"? I find running one into the next causes phase issues.
Old 8th April 2016
  #7
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JayTee4303's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevefreak View Post
probably consider learning about ambient micing or chambers before resorting to such things. Last resort a plate or something. I know people did this in the mid 1980s with stuff not unlike flock Seagulls or Winger but lucky this technique is now a lost 'art'.

I'm not trying to be difficult but using digital reverb over real ambience is amateur night. It's a bad habit just like compressing a whole mix or compressing every channel or using auto-tune on everything or sampling all your drums.

I'm not implying everything should always be 100% natural, but the goal of professional recording is to capture things as they actually sound in the room or a real space. If you don't like the way the instruments sound as they really do, then use different instruments and/or get someone else to play the instruments the way you feel they should sound.

IMO if you think you need digital reverb on everything then one ask yourself what is your goal?? You should avoid putting digital reverb on all tracks at all costs. It makes your mixes sound cheap and tinny. You need to use verb often on vocals but anything else you should re-assess the tracking technique or initiatives unless you are going for a special effect. When I did soundtracks for games and animations it was a blast flooding everything to get different depths. Inserting delays before an after reverb was fun, but you don't do that with real organic music. It's ok if you do some kind of techno thing I suppose. But not with rock and roll or jazz or metal or classical or any real music.

You want to capture things as they really sound, otherwise what you are capturing is obviously wrong in your context
Your front and back lines in rock venues have identical ambience from out front?

First violin the same as the kettles?

If you have the space to make it sound real, congrats!

We mic pretty tight, and if the room we use, or the room capture we got, doesn't make the piece, we turn it over to Casey.

I'll let you debate "tinny" and "amatuer hour" w him.

;-)
Old 8th April 2016
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiofool View Post
How many of you are sending a little of everything to a master reverb and why do you do it?
If so, what type of reverb?
I've mixed a couple of albums where I sent to a reverb straight from the master buss. One was a Smooth Jazz album and one was a Rap album. Both had a lot of virtual instruments. I haven't done it on a mix with all miked sounds but it could work for that I think.

On rare occasions I have added reverb to mixes in mastering.

A small amount of reverb on the whole mix can sound great in certain cases. It can add "glue". It can help put all mix elements in one "space". It can add a "polished" sound. If that's what you're after.

A high quality verb is needed for sure. Currently I use a Bricasti M7 - usually set to one of the warmer plate presets. In the past I have found one impulse response in Altiverb that was up to the task, and in a pinch I think Valhalla could be tweaked enough to do the job.

Regarding "cheap and tinny" comments - IME this is where engineering skills come into play. It's not hard to avoid those kinds of pitfalls with quality modern digital reverbs and use of LPFs and/or EQ on the reverb return. I've certainly heard plenty of mixes where people blew it with digital reverb, but I've also heard plenty of mixes where people blew it with analog reverb or ambient miking. Digital reverb is just another tool that requires the user to know what they're doing.
Old 8th April 2016
  #9
Here for the gear
 

I usually do this. These days it is typically a TC Reverb 4000.
Old 8th April 2016
  #10
Lives for gear
 

great thread
Old 8th April 2016
  #11
Gear Addict
 

Thanks for your replies.
I've never actually done it, but I use several reverb dedicated to different instruments.
Now when I see your posts that it is not uncommon it makes sense.
I think it's a bit like filling holes in the same way as with a synth pad.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Old 8th April 2016
  #12
Gear Addict
 

Is there some kind of inside joke going around that I don't know about?

Or maybe this>Do you know a Master Reverb User when you see one?
Old 8th April 2016
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trakworx View Post
I've mixed a couple of albums where I sent to a reverb straight from the master buss. One was a Smooth Jazz album and one was a Rap album. Both had a lot of virtual instruments. I haven't done it on a mix with all miked sounds but it could work for that I think.

On rare occasions I have added reverb to mixes in mastering.

A small amount of reverb on the whole mix can sound great in certain cases. It can add "glue". It can help put all mix elements in one "space". It can add a "polished" sound. If that's what you're after.

A high quality verb is needed for sure. Currently I use a Bricasti M7 - usually set to one of the warmer plate presets. In the past I have found one impulse response in Altiverb that was up to the task, and in a pinch I think Valhalla could be tweaked enough to do the job.

Regarding "cheap and tinny" comments - IME this is where engineering skills come into play. It's not hard to avoid those kinds of pitfalls with quality modern digital reverbs and use of LPFs and/or EQ on the reverb return. I've certainly heard plenty of mixes where people blew it with digital reverb, but I've also heard plenty of mixes where people blew it with analog reverb or ambient miking. Digital reverb is just another tool that requires the user to know what they're doing.
So... you're not going to tell us which IR?
Old 8th April 2016
  #14
^^^ "St. Joseph's Church" I think is the name...
Old 8th April 2016
  #15
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Funny Cat's Avatar
I do this on tracks with a lot of V.I.'s. almost never on tracks with full live instrumentation. It's a case by case situation which I use mostly when the tracks need to be fairly dry and retain impact but still have a sense of space. Just discovered this technique about a year ago after sending something to mastering. It came back with this "Halo" over it for lack of a better word so I asked the M.E. what he did to get that sound. The Mastering Engineer said he ran the track gently through a tube stereo limiter and then sent that into an outboard plate reverb (barely audible). I think it was a TC something or the other but not sure.
Old 8th April 2016
  #16
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DistortingJack's Avatar
 

The "correct" way to do this is to have a few sends, usually as follows:

Ambience Room
Larger Hall / Plate
Lead Vocal
Background Vocal
Delay (sometimes two delays, often sent to any of the above reverb busses)

This gives you the best cohesion and naturalness of sound in a popular music mix (be it pop, rock, jazz, R&B or metal).

You don't have to do it that way, but it is both easier and better-sounding in most scenarios.
You can of course add an extra channel reverb as a cool effect.

I wouldn't use a reverb on a master buss unless at the mastering stage if the mix is too dry, but at that point it's a flaw in the mix and not a normal procedure.

One thing to note is that at the moment, the "in" crowd of hipsters is enamoured of the "cheap digital overdone" reverb sound in an ironic way. It sounds trendy somehow, although I think the music would usually be better without it.
Old 9th April 2016
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by DistortingJack View Post
One thing to note is that at the moment, the "in" crowd of hipsters is enamoured of the "cheap digital overdone" reverb sound in an ironic way.
Only a matter of time before someone releases "Hipsterverb" with exact models of the classic 16 bit reverbs of the 80s - MIDIverb II, Quadraverb and SPX-90 all in one conveniently ironic GUI complete with handlebar mustache and full beard.
Old 9th April 2016
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by DistortingJack View Post
The "correct" way to do this is to have a few sends, usually as follows:
Yes, yes, years ago I got bored with always doing things the correct way. I have more fun and discover more new things by breaking rules than by following them. Only if it sounds good of course!
Old 9th April 2016
  #19
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trakworx View Post
Only a matter of time before someone releases "Hipsterverb" with exact models of the classic 16 bit reverbs of the 80s - MIDIverb II, Quadraverb and SPX-90 all in one conveniently ironic GUI complete with handlebar mustache and full beard.
oh the hip and the hot-hot heat...like all flakes running around with a fire under their @$$, there's already a new fad.
Old 9th April 2016
  #20
Coming from the "tape" days, we still record that way using a Bricasti on the master buss with all the tracks getting the correct amount of send. With all the choices of really good plugin reverbs, one can get lost and a lot of the detail never really shows up in the finished mix. Depending on the music, the drum buss should probably have its own reverb with all the different powerful frequencies nailing your reverb, then just add a little master send for glue, yep glue.
Old 9th April 2016
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trakworx View Post
^^^ "St. Joseph's Church" I think is the name...
Thanks!
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