The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
console's, mixers, API 500 series format?
Old 3rd February 2007
  #31
Lives for gear
 
vince @ speck's Avatar
 

Pan60 asked for my input on this matter. As someone in this thread mentioned, all the individual elements to build a 500 series rack-mixing system already exists. Here's an application that uses my X.Sum line mixer. The X.Sum has a neutral sound signature, so you’ll hear only the coloration/character of the 500 gear that is connected to it.

Any quality line mixer could be used in place of the X.Sum, although some of the “application specific” summing boxes would not have level/pan control or ability to adjust master levels.

Here’s a larger PDF of the same image
Attached Thumbnails
console's, mixers, API 500 series format?-xsum-500-series-application-540x400.jpg  
Old 3rd February 2007
  #32
Gear Addict
 
jebjerome's Avatar
 

This is exactly what I'm building up... except I'm short about 15 modules. Can't wait until it looks like that.
Old 3rd February 2007
  #33
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
A 500 series distressor! OMG!!!!
That won't happen...
Any particular reason (technical, business decision, etc)?

-Duardo
Old 4th February 2007
  #34
Lives for gear
 
macr0w's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vin-gear View Post
Paul has already incorporated a 500 series rack into a Tonelux console for Jimmy Messina. Lot's of pics on his site. http://www.tonelux.com/messina.html

Just eq's no mic pre's. That I'm sure would be more involved. Mic pre's on the API consoles are also the line input modules. Wonder if this is something that Paul will do on a more frequent basis? To bad there is such a width difference between Tonelux and 500 series modules. It is kind of cool that you can pack 16 Tonelux modules into a horizontal rack space. 11 max for 500 is kind of weird although it was designed for a "console" not an outboard rack.

How is it to work with the module/knob size on the Tonelux? Enough finger room for us guys with stubby fat fingers? The 7800/8200 is pretty frickin' tight.

If API ever does release the 1608, they must give us 8200 owners a way to incorporate our rack mixers as effect returns or additional inputs via the same multi-pin ribbon connector already established. 8200 sends must sum to console sends. Solo and mute groups should also tie together...etc. Basically, 7800 would be completely replaced by center section of 1608. This console must be what we want and need... not only what they are willing to give us.

That's one awesome F'n board.
Old 4th February 2007
  #35
Lives for gear
 
jsteiger's Avatar
I have been thinking about this 500 series rack console thing, way to much lately. Apparently only Pan60, myself and a handful of you have been doing this as well. The brain-storming that I expected to see on this thread has been very sparse at best. I would expect no gear manufacturer to want to proceed in the 500 console area based on the input here. I'm not talking about pre's, eq's and compressors. I'm talking about all the other modules needed to build a console.

So, I decided to go back and read Pan60’s start to this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pan60 View Post
...i need plumbing, expandability, quality service, and a price i can afford.
their is no need to stick with a bucket, ( rack lunchbox the part the 500 form goes in ) that follows the 500 form size at this point.
the first company that delivers at a price the end user can afford will be the leader in this new market.
so, let's talk about a bucket that hold's aux's and bussing assignments.
a bucket that will hold a fader.
or maybe both in one bucket.
and a bucket that is our master section.
so the price of admission is the master and a bucket for busing, and one for faders, ( or maybe they are one and the same ) one card and a fader now we are in
another topic is power supplies.
i would like to see one power supply capable of handling the entire system as well as multiple racks.
having had a few chat's with several of our prominent manufactures here, many prospects have come up.
i do hope some will chime in and help define their views as they can do so much better then i could ever do at getting their points across.
every thing needs to drop into a standard 19'' rack.
now i can custom build my console to fit me.
my favorite pre's from one or many different maker's eq's, comps.
drop it all in a 19'' rack or in some studio furniture or build my own desk, i love it!...
After reading it again, it hit me. I NOW interpret this as “make me all of Tonelux’s modules in the 500 series format!” I mean no disrespect Pan60, so please don’t take these comments as a slam because they are not meant that way. Maybe this is something we should ask Mr. Wolff if he can do? My guess is no way. The main difference is the width of the modules & pin-outs, hence their non-inter-compatibility. I guess the "perfect world scenario" would be for a manufacturer to make all of the same modules as Tonelux in a 500 series format. That would be cool but it doesn't seam like there is enough interest to support someone doing this. I'm really beginning to think that the Messina/Tonelux idea is the way to go. Couple racks of 500 series eq's with a few pre's and all of the routing/center section stuff from Tonelux. I would definitely want a few of Paul’s eq’s and pre’s also. And that compressor…wow!

I’m guessing Paul Wolff and Tonelux will completely stay clear of the 500 format. “Been there, done that” huh Paul?
Old 4th February 2007
  #36
I think it's great to have the option of color AND clean in a modular system.
With a limited amount of modules, you can set up mixes that sound so different from each other, using the same gear. that will take more time than recalling an automated board or DAW, but for me personally the rewards are certainly visible.
I'd even say an xtramix is just perfect for this.. More so even IMHO than the xsum. I hope I get one soon. heh

good night
Old 4th February 2007
  #37
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

vin-gear i think the tonelux system is idea.
it is very much what i am look for no question.
but i do like the speck gear for being so neutral.
peter scroll down to post 19 and start.
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/91829-germanium-series-prophecy.html


and consoles are good.
Old 4th February 2007
  #38
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Guys, if you want something that's ready to go now, think about a D&R Vision rackmount console with 500 series pre's into 500 series EQ/Comps, into the Vision with either dual line inputs (2 line inputs per module with 3 band fully sweepable EQ, 8 aux sends and 8 group bussing), or come in with a deluxe mono module via the insert. (Also with the option of the clean mic pre and/or 4 band sweepable EQ). Then configure with up to 8 group outputs and master section with full CRM abilities. Could be configured as:

24X2 w/ 8 aux sends (no bussing)
16X8X2 w/ 8 aux sends, 8 groups, 8 returns

Or the way I'm doing it:

10X4X2 w/ 500 form pre's on the front end or D&R's. My choice depending on the patch point.

They have around 8 different types of i/o modules available.

Not exactly cheap, or tiny (13 rack spaces tall), but available now, extremely clean, and elegantly functional with all the available types of modules.

Can't wait to get mine fully functional with a 1 space 96pt patchbay for ease of patching. my ultimate go anywhere and record anything machine.

1 D&R rack Vision
1 500 series rack w/ 2 512B's, 2 512C's, 2 550A's, 2 Shadow Hills GAMA's, 2 P1's or maybe 560B's. (If I do the 560's I'll add one more rack space with a Pacifica. heh!)

Additional rack when money permits.

Old 4th February 2007
  #39
Hi all, just wanted to chime in with my ideas.

I'm about 60% of the way to finishing my custom console. The desk is built and loaded so far with 10 channels Pre, 3 channels eq, 16 input summing, XLR patchbay, jack patchbay.

As others have stated, there are plenty of pres, eqs, comps and summers out there.

For me the missing links are:


1) A flexible router, with at very least a switch to choose either Mic or Line input and an insert. Here is my design in case you missed it.
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/106733-my-design-router-mixer.html

2) Aux sender. Like the Dangerous Sends, but a 16 channel version, prefferably with detended/recallable knobs.
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/21631-dangerous-sends.html

3) Faders. 16 Tonelux. Need I say more?
Old 4th February 2007
  #40
w2w
Lives for gear
 
w2w's Avatar
 

Here is another idea....I had started building something similar & dropped it all in an Argosy console housing & it worked great......I ordered it with 3 19" rack spaces instead of a console housing.

It was all based around a Manley 16x2 which gave me solo,mute,pan,conrol room monitoring etc.Then I tracked thru my API & Gama 8 (You could use any pre's of your choice).I mounted my comps & EQs as well for mixing (some not shown in this early version pic).Everything was tied into the patchbay & was super easy to patch.The mix wiz was used for headphone mixes only.The direct outs from the manley went into the Mix wiz & then into a Hearback System.I later moved the Mixwiz into a separate rack & put my EQ's & comps in.(the Mix Wiz looked kinda cheezy,and didnt need to be messed with too much)

THe great part is everything is in the sweet spot,you can use whatever pre's,comps you want,and since were all slutz,its super easy to change around.There are a lot of different summers,small console you can base it around as well.Inward Connections has a cool new one on the way.PLus,it looks like a console!! .THis was so easy to work on,it really did work great.I ended up switching back recently because I found a real console I had been looking for and decided to jump back into a real desk again.It was a very tough choice to make because I really liked this setup,especially the flexibility of it.
I had already switched it around a few times & it was so easy to do so.You could even put faders in those lower blank panels if you wanted.There are some other cool choices out there as well like Sterling Modular etc.

Anyway,just wanted to share.You can do much with the Argosy,its really a great way to use the 500 series racks.I know there are a few other here doing the same thing,thats where I got the idea.Another member,Guidotoons has a supercool setup around an API DSM,do a search,he has some pics,it looks great.

Checkout the Manleys too,great little box,you can find em at good prices used.
Attached Thumbnails
console's, mixers, API 500 series format?-00112233-002.jpg  
Old 4th February 2007
  #41
Lives for gear
 
Midlandmorgan's Avatar
 

Now THAT is a fresh approach...I like it - a lot.

Just kind of a sidebar, but so many people state that they don't want to track with comp or EQ, yet there are so many people clamoring for a method to integrate their existing stuff so they can track with as well as mix with all these goodies...

Vince's idea looks great...may have to check that one out personally....

Best thread of the year thus far...
Old 4th February 2007
  #42
awesome
Old 4th February 2007
  #43
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

nice w2w!
Old 6th February 2007
  #44
Lives for gear
 
gm5k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vince @ speck View Post
Here's an application that uses my X.Sum line mixer.

Here’s a larger PDF of the same image
i LOVE this idea! looks like something i could be into in about a year or two... heh im barely gonna be done completing my first rack!
Old 6th February 2007
  #45
Lives for gear
here are my "brainstorms". I really want to build it but I am thinking about just hiring it out. But I have no idea what it would cost.

First of all, there is no need to limit this to 500 series stuff, in my idea.

It would be 19", but vertical instead of horizontal.

each 19" single-space faceplate would be a channel, with fader, mute, pan, and sends. solo's require relays and would get complicated and expensive so i would avoid. the pan also makes consoles more complicated so I would opt for a 5-position switch. 4 busses.

Now, it is my understanding that an API output transformer has 3 balanced outputs and an unbalanced output for a meter. this would give 2 auxes and a meter or 3 auxes, in addition to the main fader send which would go to the pan switch and bus switches. auxes can be selectable pre/post on a jumper by pulling the channel out.

each channel would be based around a 325 card so would have an opamp and the output transformer. all of the parts would have to be readily available because I want to be able to maintain it for 50 years. PSU would be external. returns would sacrifice a channel. Aux sends and Bus sends would be identical to a normal channel only replacing the fader with a stepped control and of course being set up to receive signal on the bus and send it out (or to another bus or aux).

there would also have to be a backplate for all connections. I figure the channel board could attach to the faceplate like 500 series stuff and the connections to the fader and to the i/o would be ptp wired. it pains me to say ribbon cable for the busses but it seems like the only way to do it totally modular and cost effective.

input transformers would be necessary to receive balanced signals although I believe it would work fine unbalanced. All and all, the per channel cost I think would be as low as a 500 preamp.
Old 6th February 2007
  #46
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEMAS View Post
Hi all, just wanted to chime in with my ideas.

I'm about 60% of the way to finishing my custom console. The desk is built and loaded so far with 10 channels Pre, 3 channels eq, 16 input summing, XLR patchbay, jack patchbay.

As others have stated, there are plenty of pres, eqs, comps and summers out there.

For me the missing links are:


1) A flexible router, with at very least a switch to choose either Mic or Line input and an insert. Here is my design in case you missed it.
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/106733-my-design-router-mixer.html

2) Aux sender. Like the Dangerous Sends, but a 16 channel version, prefferably with detended/recallable knobs.
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/21631-dangerous-sends.html

3) Faders. 16 Tonelux. Need I say more?
very interesting ideas. seems you want to do a sort of ssl type flexible thing.
for the console I'm building (slowly) I got this old module. not API or tonelux compatible, runs on 24v. very basic. just thought I'd share that.

if anybody got schematics laying around, I need them btw. thanks
carry on please thumbsup
Old 20th February 2007
  #47
Here for the gear
 

Excuse me butting in, but .....

I have read this thread with some interest, but my requirements are a bit different - what I really need is low weight and small footprint - the absolute ideal would be a mixer that would be top quality, modular in "lumps" of 8 channels, so the desk can double up for recording DAW mixdown, and foh live work, controllable by the performers, as I believe is the MIDAS Venice series.

Given these size requirements, I can see no way that the API 500 format will fit the bill, but the quality of the circuitry - oh yes ! Now as far as I can make out, th majority of mini-mixers out there are at P.O.S. level or slightly above, but for example there may be something that could be done based on that form factor but with really decent circuitry. I guess the sonic equivalent of putting a fighter plane jet engine in a postal service delivery van. Is there any interest from anyone out there in this type of mixer ? What would it need to contain - ie facilities - what mixer could it be based on ?

If this is not the right place to post, then maybe this should be a different thread - ??

Over to you !!
Old 21st March 2007
  #48
Gear Maniac
 
LouD.'s Avatar
How did this thread get lost???

Here's a couple ideas (do I have too much time on my hands or what?)
Don't know how much the Daking mixer goes for, but hey - it's a wish list right?

Now if only the Lilo was more in my price range....
Attached Thumbnails
console's, mixers, API 500 series format?-neverem.jpg   console's, mixers, API 500 series format?-dakingrem.jpg  
Old 6th June 2007
  #49
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

bump
Old 6th June 2007
  #50
Gear Maniac
 
Mr. Man's Avatar
 

Ok,
correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like you guys are looking for an API-modular (customizable), smaller, cheaper, version to an AWS-900.

Here's an old Neve suitcase mixer that I think is reminiscent to what some of you may be talking about:
http://www.saturn-sound.com/images/l...eve%205422.jpg
Old 6th June 2007
  #51
Gear Maniac
 
Dirty Gear Pimp's Avatar
 

500 style console

i been following this thread for a while.

why not just design a new modular rack system that has a few different modules for it. like a channelstrip w/ line in only, aux sends, pan, solo/mute, bussing switches. a aux return channelstrip, a master channel, and a bus channelstrip. and throw in a talkback funciton somewhere. but make the thing with only line level input. and build it so it fits in a 19" rack. then run inline your 500 style rack of pres, then your 500 rack of eqs. and you have a console at that point. but since its modular, you can confiture it to your size and needs. kinda like a modified updated trident fleximix type deal but rackmounted with the inputs/outputs on the back.

i think something like this would be pretty cool. and from what i been reading, this is what others are looking for, right?

to me, basically boils down to that a new format needs to be introduced to be used in conjunction w/ the 500 series. and make that new format open platform so other designers can build stuff for it. but dont build any eqs or compressors, or pres. use the 500 series for that.

if i knew more about electronics. id design it and build it. but i dont know how...
Old 6th June 2007
  #52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
very interesting ideas. seems you want to do a sort of ssl type flexible thing.
for the console I'm building (slowly) I got this old module. not API or tonelux compatible, runs on 24v. very basic. just thought I'd share that.

if anybody got schematics laying around, I need them btw. thanks
carry on please thumbsup
Wow, only just seen that post, which you replied to me 4 months ago. Yeah, love it, I think....what does it do!!?

I've not made much progress with my console, for one reason or another, mainly cash. But also keep going round in circles deciding how its all gonna work.

Been building something more afforable instead - a pedal-board.

Also been busy with work recently though, which is good and been enjoying using the gear I do have for what it was designed for.
Old 6th June 2007
  #53
Lives for gear
 
seaneldon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEMAS View Post
Wow, only just seen that post, which you replied to me 4 months ago. Yeah, love it, I think....what does it do!!?
it's a routing module. the top is auxes, the pot is pan, the bottom buttons are busses/groups. looks very german.
Old 6th June 2007
  #54
Gear Addict
 

I don't know if this has been mention before, but aren't you guys talking about this?
Old 6th June 2007
  #55
Lives for gear
 
nobtwiddler's Avatar
sooooooon

It's coming......


16 channels with mic pre's and has enough room for you to add 24- 500 modules....
Old 6th June 2007
  #56
Quote:
Originally Posted by djbrough View Post
I don't know if this has been mention before, but aren't you guys talking about this?
Well I can't speak for everyone, but personally, kind of I guess, except its too complete. I think I'd choose the Chandler frame if I were in a position to start again from scratch with a large enough budget. But, I don't want the wood frame or 24 mic/line amps. I'd like it if I could buy just the aux send section. I think the point of this thread is to discuss various ways to create a console out of individual components.
Old 6th June 2007
  #57
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobtwiddler View Post
It's coming......


16 channels with mic pre's and has enough room for you to add 24- 500 modules....
Whats coming??
Old 6th June 2007
  #58
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

I'll make a prediction:

There will be at least 3 or 4 500 series based mixers at AES this year... Minimum.

A couple rack mounted units, and a couple desktop units....

And I'm sure none of them will have the features that we really are looking for.

To make it right, it will be fairly expensive. I'm sure a lot of folks designing will cheap out and use IC's, etc.

The only people who could do it right would be API. Hopefully they do something.

It should be interesting to watch things develop.

Old 6th June 2007
  #59
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nobtwiddler View Post
It's coming......


16 channels with mic pre's and has enough room for you to add 24- 500 modules....
This could be cool... Depending on the pre's.

If they were 16 channels of API pre's, then that makes sense. If they are IC based preamps I think it would be a flop.
Old 6th June 2007
  #60
Lives for gear
 
jsteiger's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post

And I'm sure none of them will have the features that we really are looking for.
+1 thumbsup Ha. So true!


Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post


The only people who could do it right would be API. Hopefully they do something.
It should be interesting to watch things develop.
In light of person/studio quests that are being conquered (can't share until it's final), I will spill what I was told.

End of January/early February, I was told that the 1608 re-issue desk was coming...please be patient, it will be worth it (I'm sure it will). On March 2, 2007, I was told by a nameless employee of API, via e-mail, that "deposits were to be taken, starting the beginning of April". And that I should "get my checkbook ready". Also, that a prototype would be completed by the end of May. On April 18th, I sent an email to above nameless employee saying "how's the progress coming". Checkbook is warmed and ready...No response to date.

I got tired of waiting and made other arrangements. If I heard, "we've fallen behind and won't have prototype ready until August" or whatever, I would not be writing this. Still would have "made my other arrangments" though.

This is not BS. I have the e-mails to back it up!

No doubt it will be great...if and when it's done
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump