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DIY Modified Sends on API 8200 Summing Mixer (pics)
Old 28th January 2007
  #1
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jsteiger's Avatar
DIY Modified Sends on API 8200 Summing Mixer (pics)

I’ll try to keep this as short as I can.

OK, so the API 7800/8200 is a great sounding little rack mount summing mixer but falls a bit short on a few options. Before I got my 24 channels, I wondered if you could access all 4 sends with only the 2 send pots on the unit. I hoped it was somehow switchable. Well, turns out that you can only utilize the 4 sends and the 4 busses via the 7600 channels strips. You can only use sends 1 & 2 with the 8200’s. I was a bit disappointed learning this. I had/have no intention on spending major amounts of cash on the 7600’s. The first thing I did when I got the system (eBay), was to open them up and have a peak. I noticed that the PCB was very clearly layed out and labeled!! Thanks Paul! I thought I could simply cut the send traces and wire in a 4 gang/ 2 position switch. I only wanted to select either sends 1-2 or send 3-4 per each 8 channels of 8200. I thought that I could work with this. I normally don’t send any of my vocal tracks to my snare or tom verb or guitars to my vocal chorus or delays. Who does? I wasn’t 100% sure that my idea was correct so didn’t quite get started right away. Really didn’t want to f*** anything up!

A week or so passed and I ended up running across a cool guy on the northside of Chicago (fellow gearslut) who use to have the same 7800/8200 system. I felt bad for him because he had to sell all his API summing stuff…to make room for an API 2488. Sucks to be him! Anyhow, he was about ready to start modifying his 8200’s when he found his 2488. He had spent many, many hours and countless e-mail’s with Paul Wolff on modifying the sends of the 8200. This was way back when Paul was still with API. Long story longer, I purchased (for a small fee) copies of his e-mail’s with Paul which included a pdf that clearly shows that my initial thoughts were correct. His mod was more elaborate making the 4 busses also accessible. Quite simple once you study the PCB for a bit. The pdf confirmation was good piece of mind insurance.

Any how, I’ve just completed the 2nd of my 3 units and thought I would share with you fellow 8200 users. So here are a few pics. Pretty simple process if you are a bit handy with a soldering iron. This switches the 2 sends together, to 4 possible outputs. Send 1-2, send 3-4, buss 1-2 or buss 3-4. I could have made send 1 switchable to all 8 or send 2 to all 8 but wanted to keep it in stereo pairs.

By the way my 2488 buddy calls the 8200’s “mini-me”. What a smart ass huh?


Pic 1. The 4 send traces are cut and all 10 jumper pairs are soldered in place.

Pic 2. Elma switch all wired (except shields)and ready for install. Avedis says they are the best and I believe him! Not cheap though!

Pic 3. Switch is installed and redundant Belden shields are wired to chassis ground. I know it's not neccessary but figured it can't hurt anything.

Pic 4. All tested, wired tied and ready to close up. thumbsup

Pic 5. Closed up and ready for action with knob in place. Custom backplate installed over the unused spot for 8200 that has onboard summing amps. I made this at work on my laser engraving machine from 1/16" plastic.

I know, it sucks that the knob is on the back but there is no room on the front. Plus it's better than not having this choice at all! Have fun if you try this. It's pretty simple and well worth the time. Mini-Me's rule the summing world!

Best regards, Jeff
Attached Thumbnails
DIY Modified Sends on API 8200 Summing Mixer (pics)-traces.jpg   DIY Modified Sends on API 8200 Summing Mixer (pics)-switch-ready.jpg   DIY Modified Sends on API 8200 Summing Mixer (pics)-switch-installed.jpg   DIY Modified Sends on API 8200 Summing Mixer (pics)-overview.jpg   DIY Modified Sends on API 8200 Summing Mixer (pics)-done.jpg  

Old 29th January 2007
  #2
Gear Maniac
Good job.
Old 30th September 2012
  #3
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adam_f's Avatar
Reviving this post (an oldie, but a goodie)... Jeff, thanks for this very helpful.

I saw somewhere where a studio had created panes with pre/post switches for sends 1/2, 3/4 too.
Old 29th April 2013
  #4
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krheatman's Avatar
I have a 7800 with 3-8200's that are done like this also.I am running it into a Mytek 8 x 192.

Next best thing to mixing thru a console.It is great having the option of multiple busses out also,and the busses,sends and main stereo buss have the same 2520 and trannies as a $100k Legacy console.
Old 29th April 2013
  #5
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adam_f's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by krheatman View Post
I have a 7800 with 3-8200's that are done like this also.I am running it into a Mytek 8 x 192.

Next best thing to mixing thru a console.It is great having the option of multiple busses out also,and the busses,sends and main stereo buss have the same 2520 and trannies as a $100k Legacy console.
Where do you return your busses and extra sends?
Old 29th April 2013
  #6
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krheatman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubehead View Post
Where do you return your busses and extra sends?
The Mytek is also an analog summing unit,along with the 8 a/d d/a.So I have 2 stereo sends and 1 stereo buss,as well as the main stereo out going to 1 and 2 on the Mytek.

So I run out of my DAW #1 thru my Midas f32 which has great eq's,thru the direct outs to a patchbay.I can hit analog compression,buss or mono,there,or put buss compression on any of the sends or busses out of the 7800.I can also add a buss compressor on the main stereo buss thru the API patchbay as well.

I capture with a 2nd DAW on another machine at 96k,but I don't have to.I can also capture the busses separate from the main buss and remix them ITB,or just the main stereo buss.

I could return the sends and busses to the 8200's if I didn't have the Mytek though as well.Lots of options with this setup.
Old 30th April 2013
  #7
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adam_f's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by krheatman View Post
The Mytek is also an analog summing unit,along with the 8 a/d d/a.So I have 2 stereo sends and 1 stereo buss,as well as the main stereo out going to 1 and 2 on the Mytek.

So I run out of my DAW #1 thru my Midas f32 which has great eq's,thru the direct outs to a patchbay.I can hit analog compression,buss or mono,there,or put buss compression on any of the sends or busses out of the 7800.I can also add a buss compressor on the main stereo buss thru the API patchbay as well.

I capture with a 2nd DAW on another machine at 96k,but I don't have to.I can also capture the busses separate from the main buss and remix them ITB,or just the main stereo buss.

I could return the sends and busses to the 8200's if I didn't have the Mytek though as well.Lots of options with this setup.

That's my issue, where to return the other sends & busses... I use a RADAR, and my DSM is a 16 channel setup (with meter bridge & patch bay). I wish the system had the send & buss returns built into the 7800 module so you don't loose input on the 8200's.
Old 2nd May 2013
  #8
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krheatman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubehead View Post
That's my issue, where to return the other sends & busses... I use a RADAR, and my DSM is a 16 channel setup (with meter bridge & patch bay). I wish the system had the send & buss returns built into the 7800 module so you don't loose input on the 8200's.
You need a 2nd and possibly 3rd 8200.Then you could return to the
to the main mix with the busses


Sent from my PC36100
Old 2nd May 2013
  #9
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adam_f's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by krheatman View Post
You need a 2nd and possibly 3rd 8200.Then you could return to the
to the main mix with the busses


Sent from my PC36100

I want to add a Chandler Limited Mini Rack Mixer to the system. The system does have the 4x4 unit... But that doesn't help much.
Old 3rd May 2013
  #10
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krheatman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubehead View Post
I want to add a Chandler Limited Mini Rack Mixer to the system. The system does have the 4x4 unit... But that doesn't help much.
Doesn't that Chandler add a lot of color also?Which radar do you have?I used to have a V,and I could D/A out of it to a mixer and then go back into 23 and 24.Only a problem is if you have over 22 tracks.That and if you want to do anything in a DAW.But if you have the I/O on the radar,you can go to a DAW,do your thing,then mix back out to stems,thru analog outboard and then capture on the radar or what ever.

Sent from my PC36100
Old 4th May 2013
  #11
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adam_f's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by krheatman View Post
Doesn't that Chandler add a lot of color also?Which radar do you have?I used to have a V,and I could D/A out of it to a mixer and then go back into 23 and 24.Only a problem is if you have over 22 tracks.That and if you want to do anything in a DAW.But if you have the I/O on the radar,you can go to a DAW,do your thing,then mix back out to stems,thru analog outboard and then capture on the radar or what ever.

Sent from my PC36100
Yah, I can do that with the Radar. I haven't tried the Mini Rack Mixer yet, though from what I understand it really depends how you push it. Obviously it would have have that TG2 vibe going on since the channels are based off that. However... how you drive those channels is all about taste.
Old 1st October 2016
  #12
Gear Head
Sorry for bringing up an old thread but I want to do this mod to my API8200's and I have a few questions. For time saving sakes, I'm pretty handy with a soldering iron and i've built a custom s800 8ch EQ, a few mics and 30+ DOA's. In saying that, I feel confident in building but not designing. Here are my questions

1. Is there a way to do this mod so that you can pick on each individual channel what output the send should be? e.g channel 1 = Buss 1&2, Channel 2 = Buss 3&4, channel 3 = Send 3&4 etc. If the answer is no, that's fine just exploring all options before committing to doing this.

2. Pic 1 says "The 4 send traces are cut and all 10 jumper pairs are soldered in place." Does this just mean desolder the 8 + and 8 - holes for busses 1234 and send 1234 or is there something else that I am not seeing/missing?

3. Pic 1 also has a shielded cable being soldered into SEND 1 +pos (RED wire) and SEND 1 -neg (Black wire), same for SEND 2. Are the black wires going into the same place as the resistor legs (R28)? Sorry I can't tell from the pic as my eye sight isn't the best.

4. I understand that the Buss 1234 and Send 1234 wires go to the rotary switch but where does the SEND 1 and SEND 2 wires get soldered to? from PCB to ??

5. Anyone know the model no. of the switch used for this mod so I can find it on mouser or any other site?


Thanks and I hope someone can help me with this. Very excited!!
Old 3rd October 2016
  #13
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string6theory's Avatar
I'd also really appreciate any additional details on this mod, which is even better than the basic mod API tech advises, which I only switch sends 1/2 to be sends 3/4 instead. But, not both, and none of the 4 busses, as the OP's mod.

I'm currently setting up an expanded custom DSM rack with, from top to bottom, the following;

Coleman Quad VU Meters (meter bridge)

2500
BAX
5500
- 1/2 space
7800
8200A 8 channel (4-stereo stems) bus interface (linked to 7800 instead of 424)
- 1/2 space
8200 16 channels for summin (from Avid HD I/O DA-8 x2)
8200
- 1/2 space
8200A 16 channels for tracking (preamps/eqs /comps)
8200
- 1/2 space
8200A 16 channels for FX (M7/Lex/Eve)
8200


It would be so awesome to have more control over sends and busses!

Old 4th October 2016
  #14
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string6theory's Avatar
Here's a pic of this custom API rack (which is really a rocking' trifecta UA/Neve/API rack …

Attached Thumbnails
DIY Modified Sends on API 8200 Summing Mixer (pics)-api-dsm-custom-rack-copy.jpg  
Old 10th October 2016
  #15
Gear Head
Anyone? it would be great to get at least some answers on the above? I know I am a bit late with this product but surely someone remembers something about it.


Pleeeeeeeeaaaassssee!!
Old 11th October 2016
  #16
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adam_f's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamZeke View Post
Sorry for bringing up an old thread but I want to do this mod to my API8200's and I have a few questions. For time saving sakes, I'm pretty handy with a soldering iron and i've built a custom s800 8ch EQ, a few mics and 30+ DOA's. In saying that, I feel confident in building but not designing. Here are my questions

1. Is there a way to do this mod so that you can pick on each individual channel what output the send should be? e.g channel 1 = Buss 1&2, Channel 2 = Buss 3&4, channel 3 = Send 3&4 etc. If the answer is no, that's fine just exploring all options before committing to doing this.
I actually posted a response when you asked.

Fwiw from memory, you cannot, it's one selection as a whole for the specific 8200 you are switching. You may be able to switch odd combination pairs, though it will be for the entire 8 channels.

Last edited by adam_f; 12th October 2016 at 04:32 PM..
Old 11th October 2016
  #17
Gear Head
Thanks adam_f for the response. That's good to know.
Old 12th October 2016
  #18
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adam_f's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamZeke View Post
Thanks adam_f for the response. That's good to know.

There was another person who modified there's well beyond this mod. PM me an I'll try and dig up the pictures and what they did.
Old 17th October 2016
  #19
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string6theory's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam_f View Post
There was another person who modified there's well beyond this mod. PM me an I'll try and dig up the pictures and what they did.
It would be cool to post them in this thread, as a great reference, what do you think?

What did the mod entail?

Old 17th October 2016
  #20
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adam_f's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by string6theory View Post
It would be cool to post them in this thread, as a great reference, what do you think?

What did the mod entail?


This guy added pre/post switches, and an option to select send knob one as 1/2 and send knob two as 3/4.

Here's his rack/website: BallsaalStudios | Studio. Machine room 1.
Old 17th October 2016
  #21
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string6theory's Avatar
That's pretty cool, separate rack units that implement all the switching, since there's not much room left for any additional knobs or switches on the 8200 face plate or rear plate.

It's really the same alt Send switching mod API advises can be done (I.e. switching between sends 1/2 & 3/4), but with pre & post routing and an external 1-RU enclosure, as opposed to hard wiring or back side switches.

Thanks for posting!

Old 26th October 2016
  #22
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string6theory's Avatar
I'm posting the 2 pictures API tech emailed to me recently, when I was inquiring about modifying these awesome line mixers.

This API mod changes Sends 1/2 to Sends 3/4 on the 8200 or 8200A.

I haven't done the mod on any 8200 yet, as I'm still working out my new CR setup requirements and I'm not sure yet if this mod will offer me any benefits in my current API custom DSM rack. It's either/or for this mod, which means all 8 channels on the 8200 get switched to Send 3/4 (instead of 1/2).

I'm planning to mult my FX sends either on the patch bay or via a high-end splitter, and so the mod might actually complicate my FX signal flow and usage.

Anyway, here are the pics…

Attached Thumbnails
DIY Modified Sends on API 8200 Summing Mixer (pics)-api-8200-send-3-4-mod-cuts-1.jpg   DIY Modified Sends on API 8200 Summing Mixer (pics)-api-8200-send-3-4-mod-jumps-2.jpg  
Old 26th October 2016
  #23
Gear Head
Thanks for posting the pic's. This answers one of my questions about cutting the traces.
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