The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Tips on Apparent Loudness
Old 26th January 2007
  #1
Lives for gear
 

Tips on Apparent Loudness

Can you guys give me some tips on how to make the apparent loudness thang work. When I L2 my mixes it makes them louder like commercial cd's but it sounds like garbage. I want the mix to be loud by still have dynamics like Timberland mixes.
I read an artile about apparent loudness. IT was talking about 2 mixes having the same level say -3db. but one mixes was much louder because of apparent loudness. I have noticed this in my mixes. Some of my mixes sound much louder than others.

Thanks for the help
Old 26th January 2007
  #2
sony oxfords inflator makes mixes sound loader than they are, i think its a pysco acoutic effect. it adds harmonics that trick your brain into thinking its loader than it really is.
Old 26th January 2007
  #3
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 

You could start by research and understanding of the Fletcher Munson curve... Don't let meters, graphs, and charts (visual aids) negatively influence your ears, but if you understand how people perceive loudness and use that to you advantage when you start a mix, it should help.

The majority of "loudness" I leave to the mastering engineer, but I almost always print a "loudness versions" when I mix so I don't loose out on any loudness cold wars in the mix stage. I've been using McDsp's ML4000 on "clean", and it's been doing a great job. But this isn't really just apparent loudness- I'm really juicing up the signal.
Old 27th January 2007
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Casey's Avatar
 

Check out Bark Frequency bands here:
http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/bbt/B...ncy_Scale.html

Apparent loudness depends on filling these bands as much as possible. The ear compresses sound within each Bark band individually. So... if all of your sound is only in a few Bark bands, then the apparent loudness will be less than if your sound is more equally distributed among the bands.

That is the root of many loudness enhancing methods, including the Sony Inflator and multi band limiting.

The Sony Inflator works, (I believe) by randomly generating harmonics to better fill unfilled Bark bands. It's an intelligent use of harmonics to gain apparent loudness. Of course you can use a shotgun approach to generating harmonics on tracks or 2 buss by many means including outright clipping.

On the other hand if your mix has good content in most Bark bands already, a multiband compressor will increase apparent loudness by turning down bands which are stuffed and allowing bands that are not so well filled to be heard better by turning up the overall compressed sound.

When people say, good arrangements and good mixing of the resulting music is critical to obtaining loud mixes, the subtext is fill all of the Bark bands during the creation of the music rather than depending to much on loudness enhancements after the fact.

-Casey
Old 27th January 2007
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Thanks for the tips. Does the Sony inflator sound better than the L3 by waves?
Old 27th January 2007
  #6
Lives for gear
Chances are, you are using samples. Timberland, Dr. Dre and all the rest use real sounds recorded in stereo and they will always sound far louder.
Old 27th January 2007
  #7
Lives for gear
 

I don't buy that...mono is a stronger/louder signal, placing it well in a stereo soundstage is the key, having everything in stereo will just fill up space/arrangement.
Old 27th January 2007
  #8
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by recall View Post
I don't buy that...mono is a stronger/louder signal, placing it well in a stereo soundstage is the key, having everything in stereo will just fill up space/arrangement.
Fortunately for the professional, that is exactly 100% wrong. That is (one of) the (many) reasons that home recording using off-the-shelf samples bolted together in PT, etc., etc., will always be light-years away from good, commercial music.

But don't take my word for it - read and re-read the postings by Bruce Swedien on the subject in his guest spot on this forum.

You will not create a sonic personality (or indeed anything much worth while) by bolting loads of other people's samples together.

Mono has its place in the mix for such things as lead vocals, kick drum and the bass component of the bass line, but we hear stereo as a result of the time delay between our left and our right ears. A mono signal panned L to R will always fall flat in the mix (read up on the Haas effect and you will understand why).

A mono pre-compressed, pre-autotuned sample will fall even flatter.
Old 28th January 2007
  #9
Lives for gear
 

[QUOTE=The Byre;1095462]Fortunately for the professional, that is exactly 100% wrong. That is (one of) the (many) reasons that home recording using off-the-shelf samples bolted together in PT, etc., etc., will always be light-years away from good, commercial music.

Fine if thats what you believe and if that works for you.

The original post referred to Timbalands mixes. Lots of his sounds are pre prepared samples triggered from kontakt or halion, most are mono. Stereo interest is created through placement of certain key sounds. The strength of his mixes comes from simple elements.....as well as having a great mix engineer in jimmy douglas.

Also many of his mixes are smashed in mastering check out "dirt off you shoulder" for an extremely loud record (not necessarily to the mix's benefit)

There's no denying stereo recording is a great tool and method.

Since the poster mentioned Timbaland, chances are he's making urban/hip hop music which mainly relies on programmed parts, most of the sounds ARE mono.

To go far back listen to mono mixes of certain key records like piper at the gates of dawn for an extremely powerful soundstage, this soundstage is delivered in mono form yet it is so much more than a straight down the middle piece.

So, theres truth in both arguements. A well recorded stereo sound can be powerful in your mix, but from an urban point of view its not the be all and end all...heck DJ Premier (one of hip hop finest producer's) has mixed in mono for years and years and his are some of the loudest and most powerful out there.
Old 28th January 2007
  #10
Lives for gear
 
max cooper's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by passionmax View Post
Thanks for the tips. Does the Sony inflator sound better than the L3 by waves?
Inflator isn't the same kind of thing as L3.

Inflator is like a Transient Designer plugin. It's meant to be used with a limiter.

(btw, great post, Casey)
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump