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Drop Ceiling Question in Control Room
Old 23rd January 2007
  #1
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jsteiger's Avatar
Drop Ceiling Question in Control Room

Hello all you Slutz,

I have a acoustic treatment question that maybe Ethan or Glenn could chime in on. Before I start, I have searched this forum and others without finding an answer so If I missed some info, sorry for starting another "treatment" thread. You can read for many days if you search "bass trap"!!!

I am relocating my basement control room to the other end of my basement. Long story but, finished living areas are not meant to be under ground level with the water(sump pump) implications and all. We had small amounts of water in that end of the basement on 3 different occasions. Only a 1/2" or so but...Nothing was ruined except for the carpet and a dismantling of the gear. My old control room has since been turned into storage so I am claiming the old "family room" area for my new control room. Dryer end of the basement. We haven't had water in about 5 or 6 years since I had a plumber buddy dig a 3rd sump pit in what used to be my vocal iso booth. Bad memories. Watch out for your sump pump floats! One of the times, the rubber flapper on the back-flow valve came off inside the outlet pipe just perfectly enough to completly block the flow so...you can guess what we found in the morning.

OK. Enough moaning.

I currently have a 2'x2' drop ceiling in the new space. The tile face is rather a hard-uneven yet reflective surface. I have no insulation above the drop ceiling. It was not intended to become a control room 15 years ago when I finished it. It would be rather impossible to put 6" or even 3.5" bats up there. Not much access with some mechanicals and what-not. I've been told that the Depot has some cheap "fluffy" faced ceiling tiles that would more absorbent for HF. I am going to change all of the tiles. Hopefully that will take care of the RFZ above the mix position. The ceiling is level, by the way.

Ah, finally a question...Do you think it would be a waste of time and $$ to line the back of the tiles with 2" 703 or 2" 705? I am going to build corner traps. Also 4" 703 traps at side RFZ spots (4" from wall) and 2pc 4'x7'-6" x 6"-8" thick 705 panels that will be behind me on rolling stands. I need access to a closet and bathroom that is at the rear of the mix position. Yah, yah 38% rule...I'm following that.

Don't know if the extra above the tiles will really help anything?

Thanks to all, Jeff
Old 23rd January 2007
  #2
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Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Above the new tiles you are putting in just use fluffy fiberglass.. You can use 703 but the fluffy stuff is fine for up there and will save you some cash.

Jeff didn't you send me pictures of this room or am I going crazy?

Glenn
Old 23rd January 2007
  #3
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jsteiger's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by myfipie View Post
Above the new tiles you are putting in just use fluffy fiberglass.. You can use 703 but the fluffy stuff is fine for up there and will save you some cash.

Jeff didn't you send me pictures of this room or am I going crazy?

Glenn
Hey Glenn,

Yeh, from our conversation, I'd say if you are not crazy yet, you've got a helluva start! Seriously, those were my pics. Just covering all my bases. It will be very un-fun/difficult to jam the fluffy bats up there but, if that is the best thing, that's what I'll do.

Any news with the calculations of the new bass trap idea???

Thanks, Jeff
Old 24th January 2007
  #4
Gear Addict
 

I dropped down about 4 inches from my joists and hung triple layer of drywall/green glue on Kinetics Noise Control hangers and 16ga. channel.
Just a suggestion.

Regards,
Bruce
Old 24th January 2007
  #5
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Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by vin-gear View Post
Hey Glenn,

Yeh, from our conversation, I'd say if you are not crazy yet, you've got a helluva start! Seriously, those were my pics. Just covering all my bases. It will be very un-fun/difficult to jam the fluffy bats up there but, if that is the best thing, that's what I'll do.

Any news with the calculations of the new bass trap idea???

Thanks, Jeff
Don't get me wrong you can use 703 or 705 up there and it will work well.
Old 24th January 2007
  #6
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Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by crna59 View Post
I dropped down about 4 inches from my joists and hung triple layer of drywall/green glue on Kinetics Noise Control hangers and 16ga. channel.
Just a suggestion.

Regards,
Bruce
I think you are confusing sound isolation (sound proofing) and absorption for room acoustics. Jeff is not trying to iso, but treating the room to sound good inside.

Glenn
Old 24th January 2007
  #7
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jsteiger's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by myfipie View Post
I think you are confusing sound isolation (sound proofing) and absorption for room acoustics. Jeff is not trying to iso, but treating the room to sound good inside.

Glenn
Yes you are right Glenn,

I just want to absorb and make her sound good.

There is no need to isolate in this situation. My studio room which is still usable, has angled double walls with 1/2" and 5/8" DW plus an angled ceiling of the same, joists and walls are stuffed and there is a 12"x12" "squishy" tile on 1x2 firring for ceiling. Perfect...no...but pretty darn good.

I looked at the ceiling grid and the main grids are running parallel with the joists. I think if I remove all the tiles and small grid pieces, I will have enough access to stuff the joists with the fluffy stuff. Should I load the corners up there where the wall meets the joists or is it not neccessary because I'm not going to have a DW surface on the bottom of the joists?

Jeff
Old 24th January 2007
  #8
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Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by vin-gear View Post
Yes you are right Glenn,

I just want to absorb and make her sound good.

There is no need to isolate in this situation. My studio room which is still usable, has angled double walls with 1/2" and 5/8" DW plus an angled ceiling of the same, joists and walls are stuffed and there is a 12"x12" "squishy" tile on 1x2 firring for ceiling. Perfect...no...but pretty darn good.

I looked at the ceiling grid and the main grids are running parallel with the joists. I think if I remove all the tiles and small grid pieces, I will have enough access to stuff the joists with the fluffy stuff. Should I load the corners up there where the wall meets the joists or is it not neccessary because I'm not going to have a DW surface on the bottom of the joists?

Jeff
What is DW surface?

Glenn
Old 24th January 2007
  #9
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jsteiger's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by myfipie View Post
What is DW surface?

Glenn
Sorry, It's my abreviation for drywall. I own a custom hardwood stair manufacturing company. That's how I "earn enough $ to keep up with a gear habit". Get tired of typing out "drywall" on our CAD drawings so it became DW.

Jeff
Old 24th January 2007
  #10
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by myfipie View Post
I think you are confusing sound isolation (sound proofing) and absorption for room acoustics. Jeff is not trying to iso, but treating the room to sound good inside.

Glenn
Well at least it would solve the problem of getting it to sound good. You can mount reflective, absorbtive or diffusion panels on it. You can tune it the way you want.

Regards,
Bruce
Old 24th January 2007
  #11
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jsteiger's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by crna59 View Post
Well at least it would solve the problem of getting it to sound good. You can mount reflective, absorbtive or diffusion panels on it. You can tune it the way you want.

Regards,
Bruce
Yes, you are correct Bruce. Not to cut corners but, we spent all of last spring and summer with a major remodel upstairs. All trim and doors removed. All pine/carpenter built stairs removed and replaced with cool stairs. Drywall patch and repair in nearly every room. Bla...bla...If I tried to start more of a major project downstairs, I might as well find a new place to live!

Just trying to get the best out of what I have to work with, ya know.

Jeff
Old 24th January 2007
  #12
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Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by vin-gear View Post
Sorry, It's my abreviation for drywall. I own a custom hardwood stair manufacturing company. That's how I "earn enough $ to keep up with a gear habit". Get tired of typing out "drywall" on our CAD drawings so it became DW.

Jeff
OHHHHH now I understand, but don't understand what you are trying to do.. Sorry I have a bit of a head cold today so maybe the little brain cells are not working right. It you can give me a call and let me see if I can figure out what you are talking about.

Glenn
Old 24th January 2007
  #13
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Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Jeff,

Quote:
Ah, finally a question
Ah, finally! heh

Quote:
Do you think it would be a waste of time and $$ to line the back of the tiles with 2" 703 or 2" 705?
No, that would be a good idea. Fluffy fiberglass works well too, as Glenn said, but it's best if it's at least 8 inches thick. Otherwise 703 or 705 is better.

There are really two issues here:

1. Bass trapping. Even if you can't or don't want to treat the entire ceiling above the tiles, you should run thick fluffy fiberglass up there around the perimeter, to at least add bass trapping in the wall ceiling corners. The more corner area you can treat the better.

2. Mid/high frequency absorption above the mix position. For that you should replace the tiles you have with 703 wrapped with fabric. You'll have to cut them in half and also trim them a bit to be just under 2 by 2 to fit in the grid. But that's a higher quality absorption than the type of ceiling tiles you have now.

--Ethan

PS: Jeff, it looks like you-know-who never showed up.
Old 24th January 2007
  #14
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jsteiger's Avatar
Thanks Ethan!!! thumbsup

You confirmed my thoughts and added some great tips as well!

Sometimes, it seams the more reading and reserch you do, the more you get messed up. My little brain cells don't work sometimes either Glenn...and I don't have a cold!!

Thanks for the time and tips. I greatly appreciate everyone's input!

Jeff
Old 31st December 2012
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras View Post
Above the new tiles you are putting in just use fluffy fiberglass.. You can use 703 but the fluffy stuff is fine for up there and will save you some cash.

Jeff didn't you send me pictures of this room or am I going crazy?

Glenn
First question: (small room example below)

For small room bass trapping - how effective would putting in a drop ceiling grid below the drywall? Figure 6" below existing drywall and make 2'x2' ceiling tiles, 4" thick from rockwool, rockboard or similar faced with muslin. Leaving a 2" air space above the rockwool... or thicker panels or more air space - which ever works best/cheapest.

Would this far outperform 4" corner traps, corner slab traps, soffit traps etc?


I apologize if this has been asked before, but I am overwhelmed with what I have read here, to the point of throwing in the towel.

My two options for a tracking/control room setup (wanting to use one room for both)

Normal bedroom, 13'6" long x 10'4" wide x 8' high - since it falls well below volume guidelines of 1500-2500 - is it unusable?

One "pain in the a**" option would be to use my home theater - which is probably about 25' long 16' wide with 7' 3/4" ceilings.
Old 31st December 2012
  #16
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post
Jeff,
1. Bass trapping. Even if you can't or don't want to treat the entire ceiling above the tiles, you should run thick fluffy fiberglass up there around the perimeter, to at least add bass trapping in the wall ceiling corners. The more corner area you can treat the better.
2. Mid/high frequency absorption above the mix position. For that you should replace the tiles you have with 703 wrapped with fabric. You'll have to cut them in half and also trim them a bit to be just under 2 by 2 to fit in the grid. But that's a higher quality absorption than the type of ceiling tiles you have now.
Ethan, thank you for all your effort here and other places in getting us educated.
What are your thoughts on "adding" a drop ceiling slightly below a drywall ceiling? I am "assuming regular acoustical tiles will not absorb much of anything. My idea is to:

1: Create a small airspace above the ceiling (assuming this helps with bass issues, similar to straddling a corner)
2: Create the maximum sq. footage I can of homemade 4" 703 or similar rockwool panels to use in place of acoustical tiles

What are the pros and cons of this idea? I would think this could create a lot more bass trapping than a few 2'x4' units around the room. The ultimate "soffit trap" ?
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