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Turntables!! recommend some.
Old 24th January 2007
  #31
Gear Nut
 

Music Hall, Rega, and Project make good turntables at good price points - some even come with a decent cartridge.

Linn LP12 goes for over $2K - so that is certainly out of your price range.

Since most recievers/integrated amps these days are not coming with built in phono pres - you will have to most probably get a stand alone one. I would say $200 to $400 for a decent one of those.

Continuim Labs Coliburn is $99.5K without cartridge.......
Old 24th January 2007
  #32
Lives for gear
 
r0ck1r0ck2's Avatar
 

sorry lads....

it's not 80k but this gets my vote for THE turntable.

Old 24th January 2007
  #33
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Thermionic's Avatar
 

Quote:
The trick with the Rega arm is to get it happening without using the tracking force setting or the anti-skate.
To clarify, you're referring to the RB300, which uses a spring to apply force. The spring works in reverse, which means - to defeat it - you set it to maximum and balance the arm via the counterweight as normal.

If you don't implement any anti-skating bias, you're going to be getting distortion which is asymmetrical between L and R - not a good move. The anti-skate control on a Rega is one of its better points IMO, not something to be avoided; it uses a magnet to apply force as opposed to a spring, which has its advantages.

What any turntable buff should have is a Test Record and an Oscilloscope; without such items, your TT setup will always be guess-work - I couldn't imagine being without mine. It's impossible to adjust bias properly without a 'scope btw (you can do it by ear, but it will never have distortion balance between channels as accurately as with a 'scope).

I've been to Rega's factory, spoken with their engineers and have fitted 100+ Rega-based arms in my time.


Justin
Old 24th January 2007
  #34
Gear Nut
 
AmplitudeAudio's Avatar
 

See if you can find a used Linn Axis. Great build quality, similar to the LP12.
Old 24th January 2007
  #35
Lives for gear
 

Ya' know...I've always kind of liked this particular turntable:

The Vyger Indian Signature - you think they've isolated the thing well enough???

Old 24th January 2007
  #36
Lives for gear
A flawed format

Heresy, I know.

When you spend a little more than Best Buy money on a turntable and preamp, reproduction is improved. That's maybe $500 for table, $300 for arm, and $200 cartridge. Above this price, reproduction improvements must be hallucinated, listeners impressed by massive build, 5-figure cost, excessive fussiness. Additional money is better spent on speakers and room treatment than on fancier turntable bits.

Technics SP-15 is a very good/sturdy broadcast table. External power supply reduces hum.
For DIY folks, AR-XA is a good/cheap starting point.

I'm not saying that LP is a "bad" format, because it's not, and it's in the sweet spot right now of CHEAP MEDIA found on recycle day, used players (cheap/free), and acceptable quality playback (if you remember to be as obsessive as users could be in the 1970's).

Things to look for in a hi-fi (not DJ) TT: Belt Drive, nothing is quieter. Heavy base, heavy platter.

Best of luck.

kk.
Old 24th January 2007
  #37
Gear Nut
 
AmplitudeAudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by centurymantra View Post
Ya' know...I've always kind of liked this particular turntable:

The Vyger Indian Signature - you think they've isolated the thing well enough???

This thing looks like it belongs in a Star Wars movie !!!!!!!
Old 24th January 2007
  #38
Gear Guru
 
Sid Viscous's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7 Hz View Post
15 posts and no one has mentioned the Linn LP-12?



THE turntable.
I was about to. I was also going to mention having an Armageddon and a Prefix installed.
Old 24th January 2007
  #39
Lives for gear
 
O.F.F.'s Avatar
 

On a budget it is very hard to beat a (slightly) modded Technics 1200. There is simply nothing out there that comes close in built quality. You might want to swap the arm though, add some damping and use the rubbermat as it is an integral part of the tt own damping. Remember the 1200 was never meant to be a dj deck, thats just a latter historical accident. At its introduction it was the simply the second best home hifi deck in Technics line-up. The top of the range SL1000 consited of the sp10 tt, EPA 500 arm and a black obsidian plinth and is very rare indeed.

If a s/h Linn tickles why not save stacks and buy the original?
A well kept original Thorens TD160 is loads cheaper then its LP12 copy (the LP12 was introduced a year after Thorens seized production of the TD160) and most spares are directly exchangeable. Or better still get a TD126 which already contains all the tweaks
(stiffer springs, regenerating AC etc) Linn foisted upon the poor souls who bought LP12s
at extra cost.

If you got money to burn the best tt ever made is the EMT 950 widebody.
They sell on ebay for about £1200-1500. If I'd know how I'd post a picture but rock1rock2 already posted a picture of the narrow version. Being a broadcast tt it already contains one of the most accurate phono pres and output is on xlr.
Old 24th January 2007
  #40
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max cooper's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermionic View Post
To clarify, you're referring to the RB300, which uses a spring to apply force. The spring works in reverse, which means - to defeat it - you set it to maximum and balance the arm via the counterweight as normal.
Bingo.

All the way to "3" and its disengaged.

I just can't support anything "anti-skate".

I live to skate. (no j/k. I'll have a listen. Thanks for the suggestion.)

Old 24th January 2007
  #41
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max cooper's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Mouse View Post

Linn LP12 goes for over $2K - so that is certainly out of your price range.
I think LP12 in fairly plain vanilla is up to around $6K, then you gotta get a cartridge.
Old 24th January 2007
  #42
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petsematary's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmplitudeAudio View Post
This thing looks like it belongs in a Star Wars movie !!!!!!!
War of the Worlds, anyone?



heh
Old 25th January 2007
  #43
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7 Hz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by max cooper View Post
I think LP12 in fairly plain vanilla is up to around $6K, then you gotta get a cartridge.
New with all the trimmings maybe, but they go for WAY LESS on ebay.

It is possible to make a very nice vinyl playback system for under £1000 I beleive.
Old 25th January 2007
  #44
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max cooper's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7 Hz View Post
New with all the trimmings maybe, but they go for WAY LESS on ebay.

It is possible to make a very nice vinyl playback system for under £1000 I beleive.
Yes, I agree. One thing I've noticed about CD players is that they don't get that much better as you throw more money into them.

per the previous suggestion about the LINN Axis, I used to own one and I say the Rega P3 is miles better. Even a P2 (which can be mostly upgraded with the Rega motor upgrade kit.)
Old 26th January 2007
  #45
Lives for gear
I grew up with a Dual 1019. wonderful turntable. the platter was so heavy it would spin down for 5 minutes after playing a 45 (well, it felt that way). It was also fully automatic, which was nice.

Interestingly, there are no electronics in that turntable whatsoever. The leads from the cartridge come straight to the rca jacks, and the entire start/stop auto mechanism is mechanical, through a rube goldberg network of gears and arms connected to the platter, to run with the turning of the table. ridiculous, but spectacularly clean and solid as a rock. the sound of the clicking and so forth when starting up or ending a record is its own symphony.

it also has 16, 33, 45 and 78 rpm settings and a few % pitch adjustment.
Old 26th January 2007
  #46
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dlmorley's Avatar
I have one of these an Oracle Alexandria
Great turntable. Really good. Oldish, but worth finding on ebay if you can

I used to have an EMT 950. Damn that was good and I paid $500! A little lucky there though...
Old 26th January 2007
  #47
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Phil Cibley's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7 Hz View Post
15 posts and no one has mentioned the Linn LP-12?



THE turntable.

Maybe because he said he wanted to keep the price below $1500.
Old 26th January 2007
  #48
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max cooper's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vixapphire View Post

Interestingly, there are no electronics in that turntable whatsoever. The leads from the cartridge come straight to the rca jacks, and the entire start/stop auto mechanism is mechanical, through a rube goldberg network of gears and arms connected to the platter, to run with the turning of the table.
Actually, it's common that the cart. leads come up directly on the RCA connex. Except when there's a phono pre in the table which is rare.

Many of Mr. Goldberg's designs have shown up in record players.

The original Fisher changer was fantastically outlandish.

As for the necessity to have levers and slots, think about old dimmer switches on cars. They used to have to be on the floor because that was a hell of a switch. Now we use relays and stuff. They weren't on the verge of being able to electronically control that stuff back then, and I think they did an outstanding job.


Old 26th January 2007
  #49
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7 Hz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7 hz
15 posts and no one has mentioned the Linn LP-12?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Cibley View Post
Maybe because he said he wanted to keep the price below $1500.
Hello?!?!??

Coo-eeee!

Did you check my link?

LINN LP12 - ORIGIN LIVE PWR SUP & ARM - MC15 SUPER - Buy It Now £545.00
LP12 Linn Sondek - 15 bids, sold for £377.95
Linn Sondek LP12 - Ittok LV II Arm With Linn K18 - 17 bids. sold for £620.00

ETC...
Old 26th January 2007
  #50
Lives for gear
 
7 Hz's Avatar
BTW, check out that total wank-a-thon of a review of the VYGER Indian Signature Turntable

Crazy hifi nuts - REVIEW THE BLOODY HARDWARE, I DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR CRAZY MIND GAMES WITH YOUR EQUIPMENT!

Old 26th January 2007
  #51
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jomo1234's Avatar
 

If you think pro-audio people are slutty...they don't even compare to high end consumer audio people! The best part of this is that you can find amazing turntables on the used market for a fraction of their value, and they have been owned and maintained by people who are obsessive about their gear.

My case in point...I bought a Clearaudio Champion turntable with an incredible tonearm and cartridge for $850. It was as good as new, and if I had bought it new it would have been nearly $2700. Take a look at the used market...your money can go a LONG way!
Old 26th January 2007
  #52
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O.F.F.'s Avatar
 

dlmorley, I hope you had a good reason to get rid of your EMT 950!
Back in the early 80s they cost £12k new. $500 must have been the bargain of a lifetime!
Old 26th January 2007
  #53
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by max cooper View Post
Actually, it's common that the cart. leads come up directly on the RCA connex. Except when there's a phono pre in the table which is rare.

Many of Mr. Goldberg's designs have shown up in record players.

The original Fisher changer was fantastically outlandish.

As for the necessity to have levers and slots, think about old dimmer switches on cars. They used to have to be on the floor because that was a hell of a switch. Now we use relays and stuff. They weren't on the verge of being able to electronically control that stuff back then, and I think they did an outstanding job.


you got that right. unfortunately, on my 1019 (which was my dad's from a couple years before I was born), the mechanism to hold it in play mode stopped working, and a number of audio repair joints from Chicago to LA were unable to craft a fix. It was in a really nice wood case by United Audio too... someday I'll find one again, just to hear that clicking etc. to bring back the childhood awe of listening to records.

isn't it sad no one calls it "listening to records" anymore? after all, a "record" is just that, independent of the medium on which it is recorded. ok, i'll stop with the pedantry now.
Old 26th January 2007
  #54
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7 Hz View Post
BTW, check out that total wank-a-thon of a review of the VYGER Indian Signature Turntable

Crazy hifi nuts - REVIEW THE BLOODY HARDWARE, I DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR CRAZY MIND GAMES WITH YOUR EQUIPMENT!

yeesh, that reviewer is a firstrate ass-hat.
Old 26th January 2007
  #55
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dlmorley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.F.F. View Post
dlmorley, I hope you had a good reason to get rid of your EMT 950!
Back in the early 80s they cost £12k new. $500 must have been the bargain of a lifetime!
The good reason was 3 kids !

I got it from a mastering studio that was going bust maybe 7 years ago.
I actually got the EMT 950 (with 3 TSD15 shells), a Sony PCM1000 Dat and a Studer B67 for 1000DM, so all 3 were $500 or so!
I used it for a while but got offered something like €1500 for it a few years ago but I sold the 2 spare TSD15 for about €200 each.. so I did alright, but shouldn't have sold it.
I'd love one again. Fabulous desk.
Still, I'm more than happy with my Oracle Alexandria and it's lighter ;-)
Old 26th January 2007
  #56
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O.F.F.'s Avatar
 

Fair enough, 3 kids are as good a reason I could think of!
Although I'd sell my granny for an EMT ;-)
FWIW I'm using a Thorens TD126 with an Audio Technica AT1010 arm which cost me
under £100 and theres not a trace of wear on it (the spindle still makes the same satisfying plop when you lift the platter up, just like new) and its still better then a Linn.
That said I'd never buy anything by Linn since it was them who introduced "psychological warfare" into the HiFi market and are so instrumental to the sorry state of the audiophile HiFi market ie the triumph of marketing over substance.

(Sorry about the mini rant but there are two companies I hate with every fibre of my being: Behringer and Linn.)
Old 26th January 2007
  #57
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max cooper's Avatar
 

Oh, and some of those Koetsu cartridges are five figures ($).

Hope your kid isn't an aspiring hip-hop DJ.

http://www.tweakshop.com/Koetsu.html

Old 27th January 2007
  #58
Lou Judson
Guest
Neck out = I got a perfectly good Pioneer for $50 at a yard sale. Sounds great!

Nobody is mentioneing cartidges or stylii...
Old 27th January 2007
  #59
Lives for gear
 
O.F.F.'s Avatar
 

Good Point!
For good value cartridges:
Denon DL110
Audio Technica 440
Shure M97
Old 27th January 2007
  #60
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max cooper's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by O.F.F. View Post
Good Point!
For good value cartridges:
Denon DL110
Audio Technica 440
Shure M97
I really like that Denon 110.

Also really like the Dynavector 10x5

Almost $400 and you gotta have a good MC phono preamp, but it sounds pretty great.
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