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Sommer/Monster/Mogami Test - Does It Realy Matter ?
Old 26th January 2007
  #31
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T_R_S's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by A440 View Post
Have you tried Van Damme cables? What do you think of those?
I LIKE THISE A LOT but...
I use Seagal cables ... They kick ass too.!
Old 26th January 2007
  #32
Gear Head
 
steviesteve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyt View Post
Monster cables are about the only thing I won't use.

Monster uses crappy 1/4 plugs ...

Spending $100 on an instrument lead just isn't rock n roll....
- ok
monster died in this moment ...forever

- i will look out for amphenol or switchcraft connectors

- rock n roll IS alive
i immediately will plug in my guitar (sommer) cable into my marshall and ....

till one year ago i used the cheapest guitar cable existing on earth (live/studio)
and it sounded also damned good. ... it's the music, not the cable !!
Old 26th January 2007
  #33
Gear Head
 
steviesteve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barish View Post
I don't understand.

Why is it confusing?
Get the most cost effective one that fits the technical spec bill and move on.
You need a cable that:
- rejects outside interference as much as it can,
- has as less capacitance as possible,
- is Oxygen free,
- is flexible and easy to work with,
- does not crackle.
Find one, buy it and move on.
What does your local shop have? Sommer? Klotz? Van Damme? Canford own brand? Studiospares own brand? Or whatever? Buy it and move on.
Don't think about it. The cable business is strictly technical and nothing empirical.
It can help you save your hair and tears when it is of good quality, but it will never make your crappy speaker sing, or turn the water into wine. It will not get your converter rid of its jitter either.
Don't be confused by the audiophile marketing bull**** they use for those who get paid more than they know what to do with and sad enough to not go out on a Friday night but rather sit in and trainspot the details in the noise we make back in the studio, which are not actually there in the first place
So buy something and move on.

B.
before opening this thread i red this gearslutz threads:

Another cable thread. just sharing...
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showt...=monster+cable
cables?
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showt...=monster+cable
your favourite cable brand???
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showt...=monster+cable


you must admit there is a whole cable world out there
... confusing ?
... i mean there are too much possibilities ... to forget how to make music ;-)

there ARE cable wars ...... in a galaxy far far away .....away from making music

so back to earth and kickin'ass

thanx to all of you for all the hints !!

....may the cable be with u heh heh heh

see ya! ... eh ... read ya!!

(by the way, has anyone of you experiences with the focusrite isa 115hd ???)
Old 26th January 2007
  #34
Lives for gear
 

I have a collection of mic cables over the years, but recently i've been buying Gotham GAC-3 from Redco. Normally, I can't tell the difference, and just grab whatever is handy.

But the other day I was trialling a bunch of Perreux hifi amps, hoping to find one suitable for my new BM15s. I chose to try these because they are made close to me (in New Zealand), and because they had balanced inputs (rare on a hifi amp).

I have no explanation for this, but for some reason all these amps hummed. I was simply connecting from my DAC-1 to the amp. My exisiting Linn amp with unbalalanced inputs had zero hum or hiss - with the cheapest RCA cable you could imagine. But these other amps had shocking hum with unbalanced, and less hum with balanced.

My point is that I finally tried my Gotham GAC-3 cables, and that killed most of the hum. I've never seen such an extreme difference between between cheap mic cables and quality cables.

(These cheap mic cables work fine as mic cables - they aren't faulty, just cheap).

I have no idea what was going on - so I haven't bought a new amp. But i'm a believer in Gotham GAC-3.
Old 26th January 2007
  #35
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviesteve View Post
but before i spent all this money i'd like to test a cheap APEX 460 (tube, about 200-250 usd) modifying in vienna by an there well known engineer. he says that after the mod it will for shure sounds very close to neumann. .... i will try it.
out of interest and because i'm from vienna, who is this tech?

thanks
istvan
Old 26th January 2007
  #36
Gear Head
 
steviesteve's Avatar
 

....Gotham GAC-3 from Redco.
......they had balanced inputs .....rare on a hifi amp.

>>> do you work onley with hifi ?


....finally tried my Gotham GAC-3 cables, and that killed most of the hum. I've never
seen such an extreme difference between between cheap mic cables and quality
cables.

>>> does it work on humming guitar amps (... ) ?


....These cheap mic cables work fine as mic cables - they aren't faulty, just cheap.

>>>with which cables did zou compare them ?


I have no idea what was going on - so I haven't bought a new amp. But i'm a believer in Gotham GAC-3.


>>>well, maybe we have to start with some postet wav.files
... i hope , i'll have soon a little bit more time (the old test has disappeared :(
Old 26th January 2007
  #37
Gear Head
 
steviesteve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by futur2 View Post
out of interest and because i'm from vienna,
who is this tech?
istvan
>>>aphex460 and other mics (neumann and so on) modding

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/hanten/

i phoned him and he seems to be a real freak
they tune every mic and other stuff
as i sad, producer friends are modding some of their gear there.

i also recommend a good /engineer/tech/modder, in my opinion, in graz.
heimo knopper http://www.kug.ac.at/info/institute/institut_8.html
he manufactured my monitors and i am realy very happy with them
Old 26th January 2007
  #38
Gear Guru
 
Sid Viscous's Avatar
 

I spent $35 a pop for 4 or 5 Monster Cable guitar leads 10 years ago. They sounded great and now I have brand new ones, from trading in the old ones at Guitar Center. Sounds like a good investment to me.
Old 26th January 2007
  #39
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwiburger View Post
But these other amps had shocking hum with unbalanced, and less hum with balanced.

My point is that I finally tried my Gotham GAC-3 cables, and that killed most of the hum. I've never seen such an extreme difference between between cheap mic cables and quality cables.
That is more an example of how the cable is wired and the type of i/0 on your gear than the quality of the cable. Not dissing Gotham cable, but it has nothing to do with the "hum" you heard or didn't hear.
Old 26th January 2007
  #40
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviesteve View Post
it's the music, not the cable !!
Finally, an intelligent comment in this thread of smoke and mirrors. Just get a decent cable and get on with it!
Old 26th January 2007
  #41
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviesteve View Post
>>>aphex460 and other mics (neumann and so on) modding

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/hanten/

i phoned him and he seems to be a real freak
they tune every mic and other stuff
as i sad, producer friends are modding some of their gear there.

i also recommend a good /engineer/tech/modder, in my opinion, in graz.
heimo knopper http://www.kug.ac.at/info/institute/institut_8.html
he manufactured my monitors and i am realy very happy with them
thanks for the info. yes i know the guys from sinnl & hanten...

cheers
istvan
Old 27th January 2007
  #42
Gear Head
 

don't most folks here make their own cables? i couldn't
imagine buying pre-made cables for a full studio - + most
of the connections end up in your patchbay anyway.

years ago when my partner & i upgraded our mackie 24 channel
board to a 1982 sound workshop 34 we made the pledge
"no hosa", got all mogami cable with switchcraft/neutrik
connectors & its been great. but then again we made
all those cables. (still cost $$$, mogami ain't cheap)

i also like the canare quad core, i use it for everything from
mic cable to unbalanced (rca, 1/4") connectors.

-carl
Old 27th January 2007
  #43
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by steviesteve View Post
I'm an italian musician/producer and not an real engineer.
now i'm upgrading my gear to get a better sound (sick of digital ...ProTools)
So i tested some cables:


If you decided to upgrade your gear, why are you wasting time testing cables?

You said you are "sick of digital .. ProTools". So what in the world do cables have to do with anything?
Old 29th January 2007
  #44
Gear Head
 
steviesteve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great View Post
If you decided to upgrade your gear, why are you wasting time testing cables?

You said you are "sick of digital .. ProTools". So what in the world do cables have to do with anything?
>>> upgrade gear ... wasting time tasting cables
you are right ... but i 'try' to be a perfectionist
so i am wasting some time thinking about cables
instead of wasting money in the wrong cables
... of course, it is similar to madness (and it's needless (?) )

>>> to do with anything
as i sad = madness
sick of digital ... yes!

i love prootools and all the wonderfull possibilities of protooling
but it's summing is terrible. i had a D&R merlin board and naturaly
nothin' sounds as good as a nice analog mixer (i know, it's not a ssl/neve ...)

so i want to have the warmth/smoothness again and thinking about a
summing mixer (don't yet know if the neve 8816 or the dangerous 2-bus (??) ),
and a HEDD, ... (even an otari 8track). recabling the racks and the other stuff
(... not so much) ... i want to give the 'little thing" on top of it
(...and to loose that little thing on my bank account)


but at the end
i think it is time to résumé this cable thread
and the winner is:
... !!!... forget the cables and move on ... !!! ...

i don't think that the producer of elvis or the beatles cared a lot about cabling
which cable was used by alan parson doing 'the dark side of the moon' ?

more important is a good mix and
a real good mastering !
... apart from nice music

i won't think about cables no longer !! ...... only a little, little bit heh
Old 29th January 2007
  #45
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
That is more an example of how the cable is wired and the type of i/0 on your gear than the quality of the cable. Not dissing Gotham cable, but it has nothing to do with the "hum" you heard or didn't hear.
Yeah - there will be a reason for this. I just don't know what it was. But to say that the choice of cable has nothing to do with the hum is just silly semantics. It had a huge difference.

The no-name mic cable is perfectly acceptable as a mic cable. I would be lying if I said that the GAC-3 cable sounded any better, when used as a mic cable.

And yet - being used at line level, the cheap mic cable apparantly introduced massive hum. The GAC-3 introduced hardly any hum at all. Sure - it's wired slighly differently, because it has 3 cores and a shield.

I bought the GAC-3 because it has better EMI shielding specs. Whatever was going on, it was clearly superior. As far as i'm concerned, quality cable pays off in better sound. Because I equate a lower noisefloor with better sound.

I don't really understand why anyone would argue that quality cable is not necessary.
Old 30th January 2007
  #46
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drummerboy1533 View Post
I think I'll invest in a spool of Belden 85207.Yeah, it's stiffer than a corpse but is was witnessed to make a signifigant difference in clarity and "bigness." I think I priced a 100ft roll for about $250.Should make 4-5 mic cables.
What is Belden 85207? It's not in their master catalog.

For what it's worth, I don't like spiral shielded cable for field use. Sorry Mogami that means you. Spiral shields eventually separate, especially if bent severely. They do have a nice assortment of small gauge wire which is great for in rack interconnects.

To my knowledge, oxygen free changes the velocity of propagation and may somewhat help to inhibit corrosion, but doesn't do anything else. A purer form is technically a better conductor and high frequency skin effect is lessened.
Old 31st January 2007
  #47
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Barish's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by grindx View Post
A purer form is technically a better conductor and high frequency skin effect is lessened.
Whoever told you this was simply talking out of his ass. (Not your fault.)

The skin effect is not an issue for signals with a frequency content below MHz.

It is a concern of RF, and not AF.


B.
Old 31st January 2007
  #48
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barish View Post
Whoever told you this was simply talking out of his ass. (Not your fault.)

The skin effect is not an issue for signals with a frequency content below MHz.

It is a concern of RF, and not AF.


B.
I wasn't saying that it was an issue. I was merely stating that a purer copper would do this, but that it really doesn't matter. I'm not arguing for Oxygen free copper. I should have made that clearer, but I thought it would have been taken differently.
Old 15th February 2007
  #49
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daveseviltwin's Avatar
 

I just first want to say that I've been lurking around here for years but this is the first time I felt obligated to post. Anyway, the honest truth about cables is that if you stick a multimeter in front of it, you'll see the difference in high end audio cables and garbage. Also, if you have an ear for gear that sounds "musical" you'll hear the difference. To say that there is no difference in cable is ludicrous. Use power cables as an example. Would you want to plug all of your recording gear up to one small edison power cable that is running on one circuit (I hope not). It's all in the physics. I prefer the mogami quad because I have tested it against the canare and monster. Monster is just a marketing gimmick when it come to price. Mogami is the most transparent and canare and monster adds a bit of coloration to your sound in the mid-range area. This why majority of the major recording studios will wire almost all of their patch bays etc. with mogami.

I work for a production company and also do commercial installation and recording therefore I use different cables all of the time (Belden, whirlwind etc.) In a live sound situation, which is a less sensitive listening experience, I find that good quality balanced cables do the job but it's a completely different situation in most cases of recording. To those of you that don't think there is a difference in what you would buy at walmart and something like Mogami and Monster, you need to do your research. There are specs on cable just like preamps or any other gear and if you really want to find out the difference read the specs and buy some of these cables and listen to the difference.

If you're just getting started out, your best bet is to take your pick. Buy something and use it for a long time and then try to downgrade and if you don't notice the difference then you may need to learn to listen better. I find that the same people that think that a Rode sounds the same as a Neumann think that cables aren't important. Your recording is only as good as your weakest link so do you really want your recording only be as good as the $12 Rapco cable you just bought.

I've noticed that as home recording gets more popular more people want to do it cheaper and you have to understand from companies like shure to digidesign they want you buy but you have to realize when you have a deal and when you're getting dealt. I don't have millions invested in my gear but I like to take pride in reading the specs and making my own decision. Educate yourself because every manufacture will tell you they have the best product. Don't put yourself at the mercy of these large corporations.

I hope I haven't come across too harshly but the topic really gets to me sometimes. I wish I would've had forums and people around me to say what the f*&k are you doing. And maybe I just didn't listen. Pushing buttons will only get you so far and I did it for years but as soon as I educated myself and learned how to read specs and look past the garbage that some of these companies are trying to sell me, I found that I was employable and that people want to know how I do things. Every subtle decision makes a difference in recording, audio and even life and how you live.
Old 15th February 2007
  #50
Lives for gear
 
Barish's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveseviltwin View Post
I just first want to say that I've been lurking around here for years but this is the first time I felt obligated to post. Anyway, the honest truth about cables is that if you stick a multimeter in front of it, you'll see the difference in high end audio cables and garbage. Also, if you have an ear for gear that sounds "musical" you'll hear the difference. To say that there is no difference in cable is ludicrous. Use power cables as an example. Would you want to plug all of your recording gear up to one small edison power cable that is running on one circuit (I hope not). It's all in the physics. I prefer the mogami quad because I have tested it against the canare and monster. Monster is just a marketing gimmick when it come to price. Mogami is the most transparent and canare and monster adds a bit of coloration to your sound in the mid-range area. This why majority of the major recording studios will wire almost all of their patch bays etc. with mogami.

I work for a production company and also do commercial installation and recording therefore I use different cables all of the time (Belden, whirlwind etc.) In a live sound situation, which is a less sensitive listening experience, I find that good quality balanced cables do the job but it's a completely different situation in most cases of recording. To those of you that don't think there is a difference in what you would buy at walmart and something like Mogami and Monster, you need to do your research. There are specs on cable just like preamps or any other gear and if you really want to find out the difference read the specs and buy some of these cables and listen to the difference.

If you're just getting started out, your best bet is to take your pick. Buy something and use it for a long time and then try to downgrade and if you don't notice the difference then you may need to learn to listen better. I find that the same people that think that a Rode sounds the same as a Neumann think that cables aren't important. Your recording is only as good as your weakest link so do you really want your recording only be as good as the $12 Rapco cable you just bought.

I've noticed that as home recording gets more popular more people want to do it cheaper and you have to understand from companies like shure to digidesign they want you buy but you have to realize when you have a deal and when you're getting dealt. I don't have millions invested in my gear but I like to take pride in reading the specs and making my own decision. Educate yourself because every manufacture will tell you they have the best product. Don't put yourself at the mercy of these large corporations.

I hope I haven't come across too harshly but the topic really gets to me sometimes. I wish I would've had forums and people around me to say what the f*&k are you doing. And maybe I just didn't listen. Pushing buttons will only get you so far and I did it for years but as soon as I educated myself and learned how to read specs and look past the garbage that some of these companies are trying to sell me, I found that I was employable and that people want to know how I do things. Every subtle decision makes a difference in recording, audio and even life and how you live.
Dude, I appreciate your chiming in, and I can tell you that I have handled almost every kind of cable from the age of 6 to my current age of 36, along with my late dad, and it included anything from NYFGBY steel shielded underground power cables to space technology 0.5mm "multicore" wires, of which I still have a few drums kicking about.

And even though I totally agree with the suggestion that cables differ from make to make -although it would take a little more than a multimetre to distinguish the subtlety in between, I can also tell you:


There is no IEC kettle cord on earth that is worth 800 quid, and no interconnect that's worth 4,000 quid.


There are only those who are prepared to pay for it.


B.
Old 15th February 2007
  #51
Gear Maniac
 

I love the Mogami multipair stuff. I just ordered a big spool of 2934 16 pair. Their cable is very flexible and all of the Dsub to TRS and XLR whips I have are Mogami. Nice stuff. It is very cost effective to buy cable and connectors and make the stuff yourself.

Their mic cable is really nice too.

Fash
jealousy curve
www.myspace.com/jealousycurve

Last edited by Fash; 15th February 2007 at 11:24 PM.. Reason: spelling
Old 16th February 2007
  #52
Gear Maniac
 
daveseviltwin's Avatar
 

I completely agree with you but if you look at the prices on Mogami and Canare, it is well worth the price (I build my own). All I'm saying is that including the tools I spent less than $600 equipping my studio with Mogami Quad. I agree with you completely. Especially with Monster cable, it can be very expensive because of the marketing. My point is a can build a Mogami cable for the price of a Hosa or some of the other brands (Not that Hosa is a bad company). I just think it's fair for some folks to know that you don't have to buy into everything that distributers want you to buy into. It's almost the difference between an Epiphone and a REAL Les Paul...
Old 16th February 2007
  #53
Lives for gear
Go ahead and take a multimeter to a Belden cable and a Mogami. Then tell us where they differ.

Hint: It won't tell you ****.

And would I want to run all my recording gear off of one edison circuit? Yes. You should know why.

Seriously, if I posted 5 audio files using 4 different mic cables (all of a reamped track to ensure the tracks were identical in playing), would you be able to pick out the two cables that were the same?

Don't make me do it....

My point is, sure cables will sound a little different due to composition, capacitance, etc... but like I said before: When moving a mic 1 centimeter will make a bigger difference than the cable choice, then who gives a ****?
Old 16th February 2007
  #54
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorGlory View Post

My point is, sure cables will sound a little different due to composition, capacitance, etc... but like I said before: When moving a mic 1 centimeter will make a bigger difference than the cable choice, then who gives a ****?
Very True! are so many variables audio that are much ore important that the tiny difference between cables if there is some between certain brands that I would saythere is not a big reason to be so anal about it!.....but sure a good cable is important.....but mogami o canare.....who give a sh*t!
Old 20th February 2007
  #55
Gear Maniac
 
daveseviltwin's Avatar
 

Go ahead and take a multimeter to a Belden cable and a Mogami. Then tell us where they differ.
When did I say Belden wasn't good cable? Also, are you trying to say that there is no difference in resistance between different cables? If so, I beg to differ. And yes, if you use expensive test equipment, you can see the difference.
[I]"And would I want to run all my recording gear off of one edison circuit? Yes. You should know why."[I]
Are you meaning one circuit or one outlet? If one outlet, you tell me why. Maybe I should have stated that differently earlier but I don't know why you would want to draw that much of a load off of one wall outlet. Give me a good reason why you would run this off of 1 edison outlet. Are you a pyro? If you know electricity, you'll see that you're drawing so much of a load that eventually after adding and adding that you're going to melt the cables
My point is, sure cables will sound a little different due to composition, capacitance, etc... but like I said before: When moving a mic 1 centimeter will make a bigger difference than the cable choice, then who gives a ****?
" My point is, sure cables will sound a little different due to composition, capacitance, etc... but like I said before: When moving a mic 1 centimeter will make a bigger difference than the cable choice, then who gives a ****?"
I can't disagree with you about mic placement and i think a lot of what I said has been taken out of context. Of course i would rather have better mic placement and it does make a difference but cabling is very important. I hate to spend a lot of money on cable just like the next guy but it makes a difference to me and yes it does make a difference to customers. Does wood make a difference in a guitar? How about the shells that a kit it is made out of? Wiring inside a guitar amp? These are the small things that people overlook and yes I hear it.
If I have to meet a tech rider for a live show, is it ok for me to substitute an edison for a 30 amp twist lock. How about I try to run the whole gig off of single phase power (including lights).
All I'm saying is that attention to detail is probably the very most important part of working with people. I think that details get overlooked so often and it's inexcusable.
I like to have fun as much as anyone else but after the job is done. Don't take me the wrong way, this is all my opinion and everyone has the right to do what they want to do. I do give a sh*t. It's music, money and my job. I hate that you understood me wrong but the fact that you turned an opinion and a discussion into a flaming war and a "down south" drunken, shouting and cursing match is really not cool.
I understand that the any given old multimeter isn't going to tell you what you have but there are machines that give you a pretty good idea. Regardless, I shouldn't have even made that statement and I apologize to you guys. But when it's all said and done, there is a difference. Damn right I'm hooking my Adam's up with Mogami!
Old 28th February 2007
  #56
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esaias's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviesteve View Post
later when i have more time i will read it mindfully!

does anybody here use SOMMER cables ???

http://www.sommercable.com/2__default/index.html
(or eg. www.kabelsound.de )

I was about to but they never answered to my e-mails :(

Although they did send me a catalogue, but no cable samples... "Free samples availeable!" hmpf :(

Looks nice stuff tho....

-Tomi
Old 28th February 2007
  #57
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Barish's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by esaias View Post
I was about to but they never answered to my e-mails :(

Although they did send me a catalogue, but no cable samples... "Free samples availeable!" hmpf :(

Looks nice stuff tho....

-Tomi
Just buy a metre or two from Studiospares, or wherever is closer to you and try it. No big deal.

I'm a scientific guy, a trained electronic engineer, as well as being a musician, and sadly I lack the enthusiastic superstition that some "audiophiles" sport about this cable business. You know, the one that goes as far as the quest for "directional cable" and "cable cooking and baking" and all sorts of bull.

I have used Sommer, Klotz and Van Damme, in hundred meters in our studio. Both as multicore and single mic cable. All of them worked equally nicely in terms of conductivity.

I have used foil shielded Sommer mic cable for my patch leads, because it feels sturdier than Klotz and Van Damme, which have a softer flexible feel to them.

As for their effects on the sound, I haven't noticed any serious difference, if they made any at all. Okay, bad cables make a bad effect on the equipment performance, but the ones I have used from those brands worked absolutely fine for us.

Just buy a metre or two, and try it yourself. That replies all your questions. It's a bloody cable after all, there's no holy spirit in it.

B.
Old 28th February 2007
  #58
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BOWIE's Avatar
Stevie, pisan, I am a cable freak and afters years of experimenting I'll give you some sound advice. Don't chase the most high-end, low-capacitance cables. It sounds good on paper but when you get 20 tracks of this bright, shrill signal recorded it suddenly doesn't sound so great. Mogami 2534 & 2549 are my personal faves as they give a very good frequency response for music w/o being too bright or too dark. For guitar/bass, I like Van De Hul integration.
There are reasons why names like NEVE, Mullard, and LA-2A are so popular. They take some edge off the high frequencies and it sounds so much more musical to the human ear. Imagine Dark Side of the Moon recorded through low-capacitance cables onto digital. It would lose all the magic and end up feeling invasive and harsh.
I actually like the gear you have and I think you can do a lot with it. Change the tubes in them for some NOS ones though (PM me for recommendations). And, personally, the last thing you want w/ your NTK is a bright cable!
Old 7th April 2007
  #59
Lives for gear
 
A440's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barish View Post
It's a bloody cable after all, there's no holy spirit in it.

B.
this gives me a great idea...I think I'll buy a drum of decent cable, get it blessed by the local Priests, Religious dudes etc.. and sell ready made 'karma-full, spiritually, superior' cable to the 'spiritual' musicians I know.
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