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How do you guys get a full stereo sound micing only 1 guitar amp?
Old 25th January 2007
  #61
Gear Nut
 

In my experience using delay on one side with introduce phase issues and/or sound quite strange.

If the guitar player REALLY doesn't want to play it twice, for whatever reason, you can always put several mics on the amp and mess with panning. Pan the close mics hard right and the ambient mics hard left, or whatever floats your boat. See if you can talk him into tracking two amps simultaneously, that almost always yields some cool results.

I've also used M/S to do more or less what you're after, you can get a pretty cool stereo image that way.
Old 25th January 2007
  #62
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lofi's Avatar
 

Quote:
I have done it all possible ways. I am now using the Eventide H8000 for this purpose. I can unison the same track, I can add a 3rd, a 4th, a 5th, a 6th, a 7th etc.. I then pan and delay the signal.

It's one of the main reasons I got that piece of gear, also the reverbs are quite nice. If you can't afford something like that, which is quite expensive, then the other two options are viable as well...

Eventide

guys.... i dont belive ya...

one performance + harmonizer = thick stereo spreaded guitar sound ???

i gotta hear it to belive it... plz post some clips or name some songs that used that aproach...

i do it with multiple different amps/cabs/mics/pres/comps + simultaneous output from the same guitar (different pups and piezo) + splitting DIs + 2 octaver pedals one down one up the same amount + reamping (usually radial + ibp)

or when possible double/triple/quad/zillion tracking of course heh

dfegad
Quote:
After he's done with the track tell him you want him to play it again so that you can use the better of the two, if you fights you, insist. Then, be completely dishonest and use both tracks. Guitars, especially distorted, sound worlds better when doubled up and panned. Sometimes you just gotta fib a little, just keep in mind it's for the band's sake even if they don't think so.
no way ya could pulled that one to real gutarplayers stike
Old 25th January 2007
  #63
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dreamsongs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lofi View Post
guys.... i dont belive ya...

one performance + harmonizer = thick stereo spreaded guitar sound ???

i gotta hear it to belive it... plz post some clips or name some songs that used that aproach...

i do it with multiple different amps/cabs/mics/pres/comps + simultaneous output from the same guitar (different pups and piezo) + splitting DIs + 2 octaver pedals one down one up the same amount + reamping (usually radial + ibp)

or when possible double/triple/quad/zillion tracking of course heh

dfegad

no way ya could pulled that one to real gutarplayers stike

What are we talking about exactly ? Some power 5th's or a highly complex riff that maybe plays the length of the verse or chorus?

Two very different things. It is a bitch to do the second choice. Double or triple track a finely timed and complex part...

I use different approaches according to the part...
Old 25th January 2007
  #64
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Devina's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Wilsey View Post
No one has mentioned stereo reverb and delay?

I love the guitar sounds in "Gone Riding" - pretty cool - was that a
technique used here?

Forgive me for spotlighting you but I thought this article was interesting...
http://www.artistwd.com/joyzine/zoe/zoe13.php
Old 25th January 2007
  #65
Lives for gear
 

I've tried them all and double (or quad) tracking stuff really works best.
The delay one channel thing is pretty lame sounding.
The Harmonizer thing is OK and if you can make the Harmonizer pitch follow the envelope it is better.
I used to have an Eventide InstaFlanger that would do this.

I used to pretty much FORCE GTR players to double track their parts, but I had a few "holdouts."

For one "holdout" guy I put two heads and cabs in the room, mic'd them both and also had two U87s in an X/Y pattern about 12 feet away. This worked really well, but it was great sounding room, too.
That took four tracks.

When I used to mix power trio set-ups for the radio shows I did I would pan the bass and the GTR a bit L/R (45% L and 45% R.... or more.) I can recall that I did Pantera this way and even with one mic on Darryl's rig it was OK because I used lot's of room to "place" the sound.

Still, going past four distorted GTR tracks is a bit rediculous.
It just becomes a wall of sound that goes WAAAAAAAAAAAA.....
I like two tracks of every part because you still get some punch.
I have a friend that always records three tracks for me and I never know where to put the third pass.
I don't use it (he doesn't read Gearslutz, so I'm safe saying this!)

Listen to ZZ Top's "Rythmeen" CD and hear how well Billy's GTR sounds with only one part beng played. They used several amps at once and it sounds MASSIVE.
Old 25th January 2007
  #66
Gear Nut
 
BlakeMcKibben's Avatar
 

I've stressed about this many a time. On my last project the budget was tight so I decided scew it and just put up a AT4050 and a D112 on this guys 5150 panned them L&R and called it good. I'm starting to think less guitar information allows the drums to take the stereo image role. Here's a track. http://www.clarityrecording.com/labelseven.mp3
Old 25th January 2007
  #67
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dreamsongs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeMcKibben View Post
I've stressed about this many a time. On my last project the budget was tight so I decided scew it and just put up a AT4050 and a D112 on this guys 5150 panned them L&R and called it good. I'm starting to think less guitar information allows the drums to take the stereo image role. Here's a track. http://www.clarityrecording.com/labelseven.mp3
Damn....That almost blew my speakers...

What the hell was that ???
Old 25th January 2007
  #68
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I usually do two takes with two mics on the amp each time. I'll use a 57 and a 421 point at about a 50 degree angle facing toward each other about an inch off the grill. The first take goes hard left and the second goes hard right. I'm not the greatest at recognizing phase problems. Does anybody think that my setup would cause phase problems? Thanks.
Old 26th January 2007
  #69
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Devina's Avatar
 

some tips that you probably already know
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/si...6f7/index.html
Old 26th January 2007
  #70
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lofi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamsongs View Post
What are we talking about exactly ? Some power 5th's or a highly complex riff that maybe plays the length of the verse or chorus?

well.. all of it if i understood it correctly... infact this question could be expanded to any "mono" instrument that could serve better the song if its "stereoized" for the mix sake...

its not that some guitarists arent willing to double the parts, the fact is sometimes thats not possible cos of improvisation. now dont get me wrong - im not against multiple tracking of the same guitar parts .not at all. and it usually sounds great but with one disadvantage : loss of performance details/nuances

multiple pickups/amps/mics/pres/comps all tracked at the same time works nice..

if ya want to sound huge but you DONT want to have various amps mixed together instead of sticking to your signature amp/sound. and still only one performance... reamping the same performance throught very same amp but with different position in the recording room should get you there.. its like creating an string orchestration with just one violin player... and you can use additional tracks only during choruses for extra impact...

im planing to do some more experimenting on this very issue so all techniques/suggestions/experiences are very welcomed....
Old 26th January 2007
  #71
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No4PCs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by knorr View Post
do the majority of people here pan the first track to one side and the doubled track to the other then?


Yes, because the slight "human varience" in playing cause a kind of " harmonic field " after L/r panned. A kind of sound pressure smashing our ears i think !
Old 26th January 2007
  #72
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DeathMonkey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeMcKibben View Post
I've stressed about this many a time. On my last project the budget was tight so I decided scew it and just put up a AT4050 and a D112 on this guys 5150 panned them L&R and called it good. I'm starting to think less guitar information allows the drums to take the stereo image role. Here's a track. http://www.clarityrecording.com/labelseven.mp3
I dug that
Old 26th January 2007
  #73
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dreamsongs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lofi View Post
well.. all of it if i understood it correctly... infact this question could be expanded to any "mono" instrument that could serve better the song if its "stereoized" for the mix sake...

its not that some guitarists arent willing to double the parts, the fact is sometimes thats not possible cos of improvisation. now dont get me wrong - im not against multiple tracking of the same guitar parts .not at all. and it usually sounds great but with one disadvantage : loss of performance details/nuances

multiple pickups/amps/mics/pres/comps all tracked at the same time works nice..

if ya want to sound huge but you DONT want to have various amps mixed together instead of sticking to your signature amp/sound. and still only one performance... reamping the same performance throught very same amp but with different position in the recording room should get you there.. its like creating an string orchestration with just one violin player... and you can use additional tracks only during choruses for extra impact...

im planing to do some more experimenting on this very issue so all techniques/suggestions/experiences are very welcomed....

All of the examples given in this thread are valid. If it sounds good and it works, by all means go for it. I personally think that more than 2 tracks per guitar is overkill and unnecessary.

What I was referring to in the paragraph you quoted was simply that when I do complex riffs that I'm even lucky to pull off clean without too many takes, I'm not gonna want to double that part. In this instance I use one or two amps and track them thru the Eventide H8000 and then harmonize the parts to my content.

If you run the mics thru a good pre and comp it sounds plenty good. If I'm just going for chords or less complex parts, I may double track, it depends on the song and the arrangements.

This is just one more way to do it that's all...
Old 26th January 2007
  #74
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studjo's Avatar
if you could play it once you can't pull it off another time?
When I'm recording myself and pull something off only one time it's certainly not good enough to stay for much longer than a few seconds on tape - but that's my miserable playing


Jo
Old 26th January 2007
  #75
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dreamsongs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by studjo View Post
if you could play it once you can't pull it off another time?
When I'm recording myself and pull something off only one time it's certainly not good enough to stay for much longer than a few seconds on tape - but that's my miserable playing

Jo
I don't know, maybe I'm just getting lazy in my old age...
Old 26th January 2007
  #76
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max cooper's Avatar
 

Haven't read the whole thread, but surely someone's mentioned Van Halen I.
Old 26th January 2007
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by max cooper View Post
Haven't read the whole thread, but surely someone's mentioned Van Halen I.
Go on...
Old 26th January 2007
  #78
Gear Nut
 
dalley's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by max cooper View Post
Haven't read the whole thread, but surely someone's mentioned Van Halen I.
lemme take a stab at this .... from what I can remember, most of Eddie's guitar parts on the first album are single parts panned L with some delay/reverb panned R?? Not much double tracking from what I can remember.

At least most of the guitar intros were done this way

Then again I'm tired and might not know what the hell I'm talking about
Old 26th January 2007
  #79
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John Suitcase's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeMcKibben View Post
I've stressed about this many a time. On my last project the budget was tight so I decided scew it and just put up a AT4050 and a D112 on this guys 5150 panned them L&R and called it good. I'm starting to think less guitar information allows the drums to take the stereo image role. Here's a track. http://www.clarityrecording.com/labelseven.mp3
I like the vocal stuff!

Oddly, this is one project where doubling the guitars through another amp could have made a big improvement. Too bad you budget was so tight.

If it were my studio, I would have thrown in the extra hour to double track that guitar...

Old 26th January 2007
  #80
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studjo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamsongs View Post
I don't know, maybe I'm just getting lazy in my old age...

oh you can't get much more lazy than little ol' me


Jo heh
Old 28th September 2009
  #81
Lives for gear
 

A few suggestions.

Try mid-side mic recording technique. Double track the guitars. Use Rickenbacker's with stereo outs (one for each pup) to feed two amps. Re-amp a dry guitar DI and use two different amps. Get two guitarists to play the same or slightly different parts.

Dave
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