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How do you guys get a full stereo sound micing only 1 guitar amp?
Old 23rd January 2007
  #31
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Sounds Great's Avatar
 

What else is going on in the song? A mono guitar track (not centered) with the right reverb sound perfect sometimes, if the guitar sounds good enough. No tricks necessary.

Listen to Jimmy Page, Jimi Hendrix, etc. for examples..
Old 23rd January 2007
  #32
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great View Post
What else is going on in the song? A mono guitar track (not centered) with the right reverb sound perfect sometimes, if the guitar sounds good enough. No tricks necessary.

Listen to Jimmy Page, Jimi Hendrix, etc. for examples..
You know, I was thinking about pulling out my Triumph, Zepplin and Hendrix CD's to critically listen to what they may have done.
The upcoming project is a hard rock 1 guitar, bass, drums, vocal..... with no backup vocals.
The plan is to only overdub the vocal.
I would like to get the guitar spread out L&R, or this will be a very mono-ish recording.
I like the idea doing this with extra room mics in the amp room.
Thanks!
Old 23rd January 2007
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yetti View Post
You know, I was thinking about pulling out my Triumph, Zepplin and Hendrix CD's to critically listen to what they may have done.
The upcoming project is a hard rock 1 guitar, bass, drums, vocal..... with no backup vocals.
The plan is to only overdub the vocal.
I would like to get the guitar spread out L&R, or this will be a very mono-ish recording.
I like the idea doing this with extra room mics in the amp room.
Thanks!
The key is how does the (one single) guitar sound in the room? With your two ears? If you get THAT dialed in, it can be as simple as a single microphone in the right spot.
Old 23rd January 2007
  #34
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djui5's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eligit View Post
6 guitar tracks of the same part? TWENTY?

sheesh. no wonder i can't stand modern rock....
Do you like Def Leopard?
Old 23rd January 2007
  #35
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uncle duncan's Avatar
 

If the amp room is small, you could re-amp the guitar track after the session, and put an amp in the room where the drums were. Then you'd have the guitar amp and the drums in the same space. Pan the guitar a little off center, and then pan room mics around to fill up the stereo field. (The room mics that were facing the walls, not the amp.)
Old 23rd January 2007
  #36
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RichT's Avatar
 

I've just finished an album for a band where the guitarist only wanted one guitar track and his playing really didn't lend itself to double tracking (lots of open, washy chords).

Using a Marshall 4x12 in a live-ish room I close mic-ed the top left hand speaker (SM57), then placed another mic (LDC) about 3 foot from the cab aiming at the right hand side speakers. Finally I placed a mic a further 3 foot from that aiming at the centre of the rig.

You'll need to tinker with panning and mic placement to get the sound you're after but it certainly helps widen up that mono guitar sound naturally.

The band have put a couple of tracks from the album on their myspace site:

http://www.myspace.com/baileygregandjack

Holden and Walk In The Rain are the tracks to check out.

Cheers,
Rich
Old 23rd January 2007
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichT View Post
I've just finished an album for a band where the guitarist only wanted one guitar track and his playing really didn't lend itself to double tracking (lots of open, washy chords).

Using a Marshall 4x12 in a live-ish room I close mic-ed the top left hand speaker (SM57), then placed another mic (LDC) about 3 foot from the cab aiming at the right hand side speakers. Finally I placed a mic a further 3 foot from that aiming at the centre of the rig.

You'll need to tinker with panning and mic placement to get the sound you're after but it certainly helps widen up that mono guitar sound naturally.

The band have put a couple of tracks from the album on their myspace site:

http://www.myspace.com/baileygregandjack

Holden and Walk In The Rain are the tracks to check out.

Cheers,
Rich
When I first met with the band and we were talking, the guitarist was looking around the studio and said "I don't mean to interupt, but is that a JMC 800?"
I told him that he is not only welcome to use my amp, but I would encourage him to , as it sounds awesome!
I also normally mic the Marshall 4x12 top left speaker with a 57, so I will experiment with your suggestion with 2 other mics.
The guitar sound you got sounds very good!
Thanks Rich!
Old 23rd January 2007
  #38
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~ufo~'s Avatar
I almost always record electric guitars with a close and an ambient.

if I want more than one close mic/track (often) I'll for instance use a 57 and a 421
when those two tracks are hard panned, you get a pretty thick sound already, without resorting to all those gnarly widening effects (this user loathes chorussed guitars, mostly).

what also works is smashing the ambient to smithereens, I usually track it pretty compressed already. I often take one (or two) of the drum overheads, if those are still in position and just use those as guitar ambients. Theoretically that introduces a kind of "real" depth, that is if you use the same ambient position for all the recordings...

works for me yo.... delays and effect I use only if my real ambience tracks fail (hardly ever). What I sometimes do is a bit slower short delay. mono channel centered, 47ms on the left, 53ms on the right or something. but I then tend to use the same delay on vocals and maybe some drums too, nice 60/70s sound...

either way, I prefer getting a thick sound with more mics than with (digital) effects.

carry on.
Old 23rd January 2007
  #39
Gear Head
 

Hard EQ -- every other band full up, every other band full down on one channel, fully the opposite on the other. Leave the two most extreme bands (highest and lowest) alone.
Old 23rd January 2007
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty Chalk View Post
Hard EQ -- every other band full up, every other band full down on one channel, fully the opposite on the other. Leave the two most extreme bands (highest and lowest) alone.
HAHA!!
That will sound killer!!!
EQ to 11.
Old 23rd January 2007
  #41
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digitalM's Avatar
 

Quote:
Hard EQ -- every other band full up, every other band full down on one channel, fully the opposite on the other. Leave the two most extreme bands (highest and lowest) alone.
Did that once on a heavy guitar solo, it sounded awesome!
Old 23rd January 2007
  #42
Gear Maniac
 

What monitors do you have in your control room?

With a pair of real monitors, you can really make the guitar sound as good as possible when tracking.
Old 23rd January 2007
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalM View Post
Did that once on a heavy guitar solo, it sounded awesome!

If you get awesome results with heavy eq, I guess I can't argue with that.
In my experience of amp micing, with the exception of rolling off the low end, I use very little if any eq.
Old 23rd January 2007
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nama View Post
What monitors do you have in your control room?

With a pair of real monitors, you can really make the guitar sound as good as possible when tracking.
I'll have to try that.heh
Old 23rd January 2007
  #45
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dlmorley's Avatar
I have just been recording guitar (les paul) into a fender pro junior and have a large booth. I have a beyerdynamic (M69 I think) I think in front of the amp and for the hell of it, I put an AKG 414 in the far corner on fig 8. Sounds great with the beyer positioned to the right a bit and the akg totally left. Really works for me.
Old 23rd January 2007
  #46
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~ufo~'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty Chalk View Post
Hard EQ -- every other band full up, every other band full down on one channel, fully the opposite on the other. Leave the two most extreme bands (highest and lowest) alone.
I do that with the +S and -S channels of MS a lot, to not make the cancel out completely when monoed. works by not working properly, if you get my drift
Old 23rd January 2007
  #47
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Infernal Device's Avatar
 

Honestly, it seems like communication. Do they want the "Nickelback" doubled sound? Or do they want just one guitar? Ask them and give them what they think sounds better. If they want the modern rock doubled sound, you HAVE to double or quad track it. Period. End of it. If they want Nirvana-ish or White Stripes-ish, then don't double it

PS-all the posts here are great for tracking multiples! Don't forget to move the mic a tiny bit every time you track another part or you will get phasing.
Old 23rd January 2007
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infernal Device View Post
Honestly, it seems like communication. Do they want the "Nickelback" doubled sound? Or do they want just one guitar? Ask them and give them what they think sounds better. If they want the modern rock doubled sound, you HAVE to double or quad track it. Period. End of it. If they want Nirvana-ish or White Stripes-ish, then don't double it

PS-all the posts here are great for tracking multiples! Don't forget to move the mic a tiny bit every time you track another part or you will get phasing.
funnily enough i read that for "smells like teen spirit" there is LOTS of doubling....he told cobain he was just doing other takes with other amps...but the end result is something like 4-6 tracks at least with 4 amps or so....haha.

white stripes tho...i think he may have never ever doubled a single part from the sound...

also there is a major dif between adding guitar parts with HARMONY as opposed to playing the exact same notes at the same time....just a whole other effect.
Old 23rd January 2007
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eligit View Post
funnily enough i read that for "smells like teen spirit" there is LOTS of doubling....he told cobain he was just doing other takes with other amps...but the end result is something like 4-6 tracks at least with 4 amps or so....haha.

white stripes tho...i think he may have never ever doubled a single part from the sound...

also there is a major dif between adding guitar parts with HARMONY as opposed to playing the exact same notes at the same time....just a whole other effect.
As far as Nirvana, very true. I forgot about that because I hate that record. I was talking about "in utero".
Old 23rd January 2007
  #50
Gear Maniac
 

I had this exact same problem with a local band i recorded. But with a twist : It was a metal band. We recorded the guitar with fairly low gain, because we'd record the other guitar heavier. It was working wonderfully for the other musics, but on this one, the g uitarist just cound't record. And it was a very simple riff! After he told me to 'leave it as it is', I started to crack my head to see what i could do. I tried different EQs, tried using plug ins, but it ended up sounding kinda thin still. So i tried to compensate on the bass, EQing it differently to fill up where to other guitar would've done, and added more distortion than on the other tracks. Still didn't sound great, but at least it didnt end sounding like crap.
Old 23rd January 2007
  #51
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seb37000's Avatar
 

anyone know a good plug in harmonizer ?
Old 23rd January 2007
  #52
Gear Nut
 

If you're going for a pretty heavy sound, check out what is done on stuff like Rage Against the Machine (particularly Evil Empire) and some Stone Temple Pilots stuff (yes, I am a Brendan O'Brien fanboy). They both only have one guitarist.

A trick I noticed that pops up quite a bit is the bass tracked with a DI plus a quite dirty amp sound. The guitar is panned one side and the bass amp track (probably hi-passed) is panned the other side. If done correctly it sounds like two guitar parts (not to mention BRUTAL).

Might want to try that.
Old 23rd January 2007
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seb37000 View Post
anyone know a good plug in harmonizer ?
Eventide...
Old 23rd January 2007
  #54
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John Suitcase's Avatar
 

Yeah, reamping the DI bass through a marshall with loads of gain makes a nice "guitarish" sound to pan opposite the guitar.

I like Randy's earlier suggestion of reamping. I've done this, where I record the DI guitar signal while also recording the amped signal. Go back and run the DI through 3 or 4 other setups. It sounds tight (since they're all from the same original take) but by using different amp/mic/preamp setups you get a pretty huge sound. Mixing a crunchy distorted tone with the typical big marshall sound gets something very nice. You can actually hear the strumming and picking a little, as opposed to the big wash of distortion you often hear in metal stuff.


When using the delay trick, you have to keep in mind that if your delay is short, two things happen. One, you get the Haas effect, where you ear will only hear the first one, unless you make the delayed signal a good deal louder than the undelayed signal. Secondly, when collaped to mono, you'll get comb-filtering.

You can avoid both of these problems by using longer delay times, but with the result of the slap-back sound (because now your ear is hearing the echo as distinct from the original sound, rather than as a positioning cue.)

Fun stuff, try the reamping, I think you'll like the results a lot.
Old 23rd January 2007
  #55
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James Wilsey's Avatar
No one has mentioned stereo reverb and delay?
Old 23rd January 2007
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Suitcase View Post
Yeah, reamping the DI bass through a marshall with loads of gain makes a nice "guitarish" sound to pan opposite the guitar.

I like Randy's earlier suggestion of reamping. I've done this, where I record the DI guitar signal while also recording the amped signal. Go back and run the DI through 3 or 4 other setups. It sounds tight (since they're all from the same original take) but by using different amp/mic/preamp setups you get a pretty huge sound. Mixing a crunchy distorted tone with the typical big marshall sound gets something very nice. You can actually hear the strumming and picking a little, as opposed to the big wash of distortion you often hear in metal stuff.


When using the delay trick, you have to keep in mind that if your delay is short, two things happen. One, you get the Haas effect, where you ear will only hear the first one, unless you make the delayed signal a good deal louder than the undelayed signal. Secondly, when collaped to mono, you'll get comb-filtering.

You can avoid both of these problems by using longer delay times, but with the result of the slap-back sound (because now your ear is hearing the echo as distinct from the original sound, rather than as a positioning cue.)

Fun stuff, try the reamping, I think you'll like the results a lot.
I thought about reamping as an option.
I would be able to use my 1st choice mic pre's if I went this route....maybe have some fun using 3 or 4 room mics spread out, and then pan the same way as the mics were arranged....you got me thinking about that, thanks!
I have a couple Radial direct boxes and the X-amp box for reamping.
I always go the direct route for tracking bass, and then blend in a reamped bass amp.....usually on my own time after the band leaves (lol)
Old 23rd January 2007
  #57
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max cooper's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty Chalk View Post
Hard EQ -- every other band full up, every other band full down on one channel, fully the opposite on the other. Leave the two most extreme bands (highest and lowest) alone.
This is basically how mono recordings were "electronically processed to simulate stereo".

It's supposed to simulate comb filtering, which I guess is one clue your ears use to determine stereo positioning.
Old 23rd January 2007
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by max cooper View Post
Hey! I agree with you for once! How about really f-in them up and putting a MONO mix out on a stereo CD? I was listening to something the other day abd *boom* all of a sudden one track was totally mono. It was nice.

But there are other options.

I put up a thread a while back about how to mix with one guitar track. I like doing it now, but then it was new to me.

Assymetrical mixes.

I mean without doubling, or any kind of delaying and panning. Just. One. Guitar.

Someone find that thread.
I think you mean this tread?

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/51175-where-do-you-pan-one-guitar.html
Old 23rd January 2007
  #59
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seb37000's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by djui5 View Post
Eventide...
Any vst ?
Old 25th January 2007
  #60
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Rogervandeberg's Avatar
 

i think they are only made for PT (HD)
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