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Louder than Liftoff Silver Bullet first impressions Dynamics Processors (HW)
Old 7th March 2018
  #1771
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Hey Guys -

Back in the day, for the most part, no one went for "coloring" all their tracks. That just wasn't on the radar at that point in time. It just naturally and organically happened by making all these passes through the console at various stages of the production - which was an intrinsic and integral part of making records back then.
Exactly. Back in my analog / tape days the goal wasn't to get "color" ... the goal was lower noise and in some ways maybe to find a solution with a little less color.

In fact, I think that was one of the main problems with early digital. All of us working back then were bringing our analog mindset to the digital world, "record as hot as possible," "keep the single path as clean as possible", "record a little bright because the tape machine is going to loose high end after pass after pass", that stuff either doesn't work, doesn't matter or is counter productive in the digital world.

What I think we are finding decades later is that the magic of older recordings really comes from sum of all the gear the audio passed through not from any one single element (be that tape or analog summing or a hardware compressor / EQ).

Think of all the hardware a single piece of a recording would go through from a microphone to a end listener's speakers.

- In some (many?) cases an external mic pre-amp (at least with an SSL board during tracking)
- Maybe a channel compressor or an outboard compressor
- A console patch point line level input
- A channel EQ or an outboard EQ
- Possibly another console patch point
- Console channel output
- Tape machine input
- Tape head
- Tape channel
- Tape repro head
- Tape machine output
- Possibly a bounce to free up tape tracks which means another trip through the console
- Console input
- Console EQ or outboard EQ
- Console compressor or outboard compressor
- Console group buss
- Console 2 track buss
- Console 2 buss comp
- Console 2 buss out
- 2 track tape machine in
- 2 track tape machine record head
- 2 track tape machine tape
- 2 track tape machine repro head
- 2 track tape machine out
- Mastering console in
- Mastering EQ
- Mastering compressor
- Mastering EQ 2
- Mastering limiter (maybe)
- Mastering 2 track tape deck input
- Mastering 2 track tape head
- Mastering 2 track tape
- Mastering 2 track tape deck out

That isn't even really the whole list. Think about that amount of "processing" the signal takes on without us doing "big" things like EQ or compression.

There is a certain amount of magic added with that whole process, it's not just one single mojo piece of equipment IMHO.
Old 7th March 2018
  #1772
Lives for gear
 
BradM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new View Post
Thanks for the explanation Jeff.

That is a really interesting process. I have been using Reaper for a few years because it is so versatile. It does have the ability to do batch processing as well through some scripting but that would be a little too much like work to me so I am probably going to just stick with running stems through.... still an hour or two worth of work for every track but worth the effort I think.
Or...just pick up a lunchbox full of Chromas to process multiple tracks at once. I know @drBill would wholeheartedly support this idea.

Brad
Old 7th March 2018
  #1773
Lives for gear
 
Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Well, that's like 33 SBs!

Wonder how that would actually sound....

Old 7th March 2018
  #1774
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradM View Post
Or...just pick up a lunchbox full of Chromas to process multiple tracks at once. I know @drBill would wholeheartedly support this idea.

Brad
I do have three so that's a start.... well, I sort of have three... (where is my shipment Brad!)

Old 7th March 2018
  #1775
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new View Post
Exactly. Back in my analog / tape days the goal wasn't to get "color" ... the goal was lower noise and in some ways maybe to find a solution with a little less color.

In fact, I think that was one of the main problems with early digital. All of us working back then were bringing our analog mindset to the digital world, "record as hot as possible," "keep the single path as clean as possible", "record a little bright because the tape machine is going to loose high end after pass after pass", that stuff either doesn't work, doesn't matter or is counter productive in the digital world.

What I think we are finding decades later is that the magic of older recordings really comes from sum of all the gear the audio passed through not from any one single element (be that tape or analog summing or a hardware compressor / EQ).

Think of all the hardware a single piece of a recording would go through from a microphone to a end listener's speakers.

- In some (many?) cases an external mic pre-amp (at least with an SSL board during tracking)
- Maybe a channel compressor or an outboard compressor
- A console patch point line level input
- A channel EQ or an outboard EQ
- Possibly another console patch point
- Console channel output
- Tape machine input
- Tape head
- Tape channel
- Tape repro head
- Tape machine output
- Possibly a bounce to free up tape tracks which means another trip through the console
- Console input
- Console EQ or outboard EQ
- Console compressor or outboard compressor
- Console group buss
- Console 2 track buss
- Console 2 buss comp
- Console 2 buss out
- 2 track tape machine in
- 2 track tape machine record head
- 2 track tape machine tape
- 2 track tape machine repro head
- 2 track tape machine out
- Mastering console in
- Mastering EQ
- Mastering compressor
- Mastering EQ 2
- Mastering limiter (maybe)
- Mastering 2 track tape deck input
- Mastering 2 track tape head
- Mastering 2 track tape
- Mastering 2 track tape deck out

That isn't even really the whole list. Think about that amount of "processing" the signal takes on without us doing "big" things like EQ or compression.

There is a certain amount of magic added with that whole process, it's not just one single mojo piece of equipment IMHO.

And people are still worried about the degradation they **might** get if they leave their DAW for a DA/AD path.....

No wonder digital is lacking soul. MORE DOA's, OPAMPS, and random electronics needed!!!

Next time I encounter someone who is terrified to leave their DAW for even a single pass of analog, I'm going to refer them to your post.
Old 7th March 2018
  #1776
JGM
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
This is a simple answer for me - but there's as many "right" answers as there are mix engineers - so take it with a grain of salt.

Compressor.

I use Mix Bus EQ for sweeping gentle tone shaping - NOT for carving. The Silver Bullet has the general tone shaping thing dialed IMO!! If I need to get tweaky in the midbands on the mix bus, it means I have a problem in the tracks / mix.

That said, I wouldn't mind eventually putting a mid-band EQ on the mix bus for some gentle low mid-band cuts - as a band-aid quick fix for me, but I'm 100% happy with the way I can tweak the EQ curves with the SB right out of the box.

Compression however can significantly shape and feel of a mix, so that's why I would have to say compressor. Two bus compressors that I've got in the racks right now and am really digging are the :

Serpent SB4001 (if you've got a 500 rack) and,
Audio-Scape GSSL comp

Good luck!!

bp
Along this same line of questioning, what do you think about that 1 box being a Tegeler Creme? With its included EQ would that make it redundant or too much w/ the SB?

Thanks.
Old 7th March 2018
  #1777
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
And people are still worried about the degradation they **might** get if they leave their DAW for a DA/AD path.....

No wonder digital is lacking soul. MORE DOA's, OPAMPS, and random electronics needed!!!

Next time I encounter someone who is terrified to leave their DAW for even a single pass of analog, I'm going to refer them to your post.
Old 7th March 2018
  #1778
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JGM View Post
Along this same line of questioning, what do you think about that 1 box being a Tegeler Creme? With its included EQ would that make it redundant or too much w/ the SB?

Thanks.
Sorry, haven't had a chance to use that box.
Old 7th March 2018
  #1779
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
Well, that's like 33 SBs!

Wonder how that would actually sound....


Brad is standing by - awaiting your call Jeff.

5 just isn't enough. I'd be happy with 8. As long as...

I had a 8 pac of Chroma's too.
Old 7th March 2018
  #1780
JGM
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BradM View Post
Hi there,

I already know my prototype Rogue Two op amps sound amazing in the A Mojo Amp. Some day those will be released...

Brad
I really hope "Some day" is a lot more sooner than later.
I've been waiting for this since you 1st mentioned it.
Please please please release these soon!!!

Thanks.
Old 7th March 2018
  #1781
Lives for gear
 
Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Brad is standing by - awaiting your call Jeff.
Just called. He's not answering. Oh well.
Old 7th March 2018
  #1782
Lives for gear
 
herecomesyourman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradM View Post
I'm with Bill on this one. I was thinking the exact same thing. From the feedback I get from most users, AIR+VINTAGE seems to be the favorite for mixing and mastering (hence why we made it the preset on Chroma). But like Bill said...no right or wrong. Just whatever works. My design intent was that PRES and BASS would be more useful on individual tracks during recording or while "re-processing", and that SUB and AIR would be the magic pixie dust I'd want on the final mix. However, there are plenty of times where the opposite works out perfectly as well. The good news is that all the EQ frequencies are pretty universal in their application to what we like to call "music" here at Rogue Planet Command.


@chinesewhiteman - If I was going to recommend a goto tracking preset for processing stems/tracks in a batch like Jeff does I'd probably do the following:

Choose A or N
Set GAIN to 9:00, OUT to 3:00
Engage TIGHT
(optional) Engage EQ, and set PRES to 1:00

That would give you a nice coat of sonic varnish that isn't too over the top.

Brad
Brad,

You know what I would love? An expansion unit called "The Holster". 1U, with a mirror image of all the push Buttons and expanded set of controls for the BAX EQ in the Silver Bullet, and maybe a few extra tricks that you could use via the Insert section on the SB.

Then I can get settings like Presence AND Air at the same time. =P

Also if you want to expand that to 2U, and include a flexible compressor section with a fixed side chain that ducks at both 70Hz and 250Hz at the same time via a push button...with independent Bell Width controls (Narrow to Wide Screen) for both fixed SC frequencies...and a WET/DRY knob for parallel compression...all with stepped knobs to boot...well then I wouldn't stop you.
Attached Thumbnails
Louder than Liftoff Silver Bullet first impressions-takemymoney.jpg  
Old 7th March 2018
  #1783
Gear Head
 

@drBill I had a question for you on the last page:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwattsup View Post
Dr. Bill, I noticed in some other threads that you're a pretty big proponent of the Zod DI. Are the SB and the Zod a pretty good marriage together? Any insight you could give would be most beneficial.
Have you tried the combination of the SB and Zod when tracking bass or other instruments? Much compression needed with the transient shaving side of the SB? Does the AIR and SUB on the EQ make it even better? Really interested in picking one of those up to go with my SB.

I read the SB thread earlier on RGO, and saw Brad discussing his disdain for faceplate holes Don't blame him one bit on that one. Give's the SB such a nice clean look. Loving mine so far in my small home studio. Thanks again Brad and drBill.
Old 7th March 2018
  #1784
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DougS's Avatar
 

Finally got the SB racked up. I'm just starting to work with it. So far it sounds great!

Louder than Liftoff Silver Bullet first impressions-2018-03-05-07.30.51.jpg
Attached Thumbnails
Louder than Liftoff Silver Bullet first impressions-2018-03-05-07.30.51.jpg  
Old 7th March 2018
  #1785
Lives for gear
 
12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougS View Post
Finally got the SB racked up. I'm just starting to work with it. So far it sounds great!
Welcome to the club Doug!
Old 7th March 2018
  #1786
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwattsup View Post
@drBill I had a question for you on the last page:



Have you tried the combination of the SB and Zod when tracking bass or other instruments? Much compression needed with the transient shaving side of the SB? Does the AIR and SUB on the EQ make it even better? Really interested in picking one of those up to go with my SB.

I read the SB thread earlier on RGO, and saw Brad discussing his disdain for faceplate holes Don't blame him one bit on that one. Give's the SB such a nice clean look. Loving mine so far in my small home studio. Thanks again Brad and drBill.
I like the ZOD a lot. I've used it with a lot of pre's - including Chroma which is very close to the SB - and it sounded great with all of them. Used it a few times to track vocals - Tube Mic into Zod into LA2a with minimal compression into A/D. Fantastic sound. I wouldn't hesitate if you need a great DI - especially if you want a tube DI. Because having only one, I haven't used it as much as I might have liked. Looking forward to getting another so I can try it on more things.
Old 7th March 2018
  #1787
Here for the gear
 

Hi, I got Tegeler Creme, the EQ is very smoth and not so much noticeable - it is a great unit, but it is something different than SB (I am talking about eq section) ....
Old 7th March 2018
  #1788
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kobdzey View Post
Hi, I got Tegeler Creme, the EQ is very smoth and not so much noticeable - it is a great unit, but it is something different than SB (I am talking about eq section) ....
Do you own both Creme and SB? Can you compare them ?
Old 7th March 2018
  #1789
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bak3r View Post
Do you own both Creme and SB? Can you compare them ?
I own only Creme, but that will change this year :-) ... there are some nice review of SB on youtube , so I can hear, what eq of SB does...I like it...

Tegeler´s eq is really only for some nice "polishing"...especially hi Freq section ... it adds nice air..
Old 8th March 2018
  #1790
Gear Maniac
 
Secret80sMan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kobdzey View Post
I own only Creme, but that will change this year :-) ... there are some nice review of SB on youtube , so I can hear, what eq of SB does...I like it...

Tegeler´s eq is really only for some nice "polishing"...especially hi Freq section ... it adds nice air..
The air frequency in the Silver Bullet does just that, polishes a mix. You. can really dig into it and it is always musical at least in my listed experience thus far.
Old 8th March 2018
  #1791
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
I like the ZOD a lot. I've used it with a lot of pre's - including Chroma which is very close to the SB - and it sounded great with all of them. Used it a few times to track vocals - Tube Mic into Zod into LA2a with minimal compression into A/D. Fantastic sound. I wouldn't hesitate if you need a great DI - especially if you want a tube DI. Because having only one, I haven't used it as much as I might have liked. Looking forward to getting another so I can try it on more things.
Thanks! I bet 2 would be amazing on stereo sources. I feel so fortunate putting my budget studio together with all of these amazing word of mouth products becoming available. Feels like perfect timing, and helping me avoid some costly gear mistakes. The SB is simply amazing for my hybrid setup. Definitely makes my songs feel like they have more weight and space than when I was ITB. After the Zod, I think I'll be saving towards some outboard compressors for the inserts while both tracking and mixing. Found some pretty nice recommendations throughout this thread that I've started researching. Can't thank all of the SB owners enough on letting me know what works well with it.
Old 8th March 2018
  #1792
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwattsup View Post
Thanks! I bet 2 would be amazing on stereo sources. I feel so fortunate putting my budget studio together with all of these amazing word of mouth products becoming available. Feels like perfect timing, and helping me avoid some costly gear mistakes. The SB is simply amazing for my hybrid setup. Definitely makes my songs feel like they have more weight and space than when I was ITB. After the Zod, I think I'll be saving towards some outboard compressors for the inserts while both tracking and mixing. Found some pretty nice recommendations throughout this thread that I've started researching. Can't thank all of the SB owners enough on letting me know what works well with it.
Awesome bwattsup.

Yeah, it kind of baffles me when I run across hard-core opponents of a hybrid or OTB setup who honestly believe that ITB plugins sound "indistinguishable" (their words, not mine) to hardware options. Hybrid changed my life for the better. Better than my tape (JH24) / console (D&R) studio and better than my AVID HDX ITB setup with 10's of thousands in plugins over the years!

So happy that the SB has made your music / mixing life better!! Kudos.
Old 8th March 2018
  #1793
Lives for gear
Woop woop! Just placed an order for this bad boy, really looking forward to it, though it probably won't get here for a while (in UK).

My hope is this will not only be great on the 2 bus, but may also allow me to sell my API A2D - i'm not using the A/D on the A2D anymore, and if I can get that API flavour from the Silver Bullet...but selling the A2D will be a wrench tho it's been my goto pre for 8 years.

Can't wait
Old 8th March 2018
  #1794
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new View Post
Brad, I have 3 Chromas with modules on the way and I really need to get a new / additional 500 series rack.

Any update on your 500 series rack tests? If you don't feel comfortable sharing over the thread can you please shoot me a PM? I need to get something ordered quickly, I have a tracking session coming up but I wanted to get your take before I pick something up.

Thanks in advance
@BradM could you send this my way as well? Thanks.
Old 8th March 2018
  #1795
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwazi View Post
@BradM could you send this my way as well? Thanks.
Add another curious loyal customer to the email/PM please!
Old 8th March 2018
  #1796
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Cody's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gollumsluvslave View Post

My hope is this will not only be great on the 2 bus, but may also allow me to sell my API A2D - i'm not using the A/D on the A2D anymore, and if I can get that API flavour from the Silver Bullet...but selling the A2D will be a wrench tho it's been my goto pre for 8 years.
I sold my A2D I miss it only because I would love 2 more channels of API, but the SB easily filled the void for now. When I finally get some cash, a pair of Chroma's will do.
Old 8th March 2018
  #1797
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b0se's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gollumsluvslave View Post
Woop woop! Just placed an order for this bad boy, really looking forward to it, though it probably won't get here for a while (in UK).

My hope is this will not only be great on the 2 bus, but may also allow me to sell my API A2D - i'm not using the A/D on the A2D anymore, and if I can get that API flavour from the Silver Bullet...but selling the A2D will be a wrench tho it's been my goto pre for 8 years.

Can't wait
Mine arrived in 2-3 days to the UK. Happy days.

The SB—being my first bit of outboard—set the bar so damn high for other HW.

Have a HCL Varis on the inserts and absolutely loving it. Miad 4040s in the chain too but I think one of them is broken (one is much quieter than the other and has no bottom end - just bought second hand) :/

Last edited by b0se; 8th March 2018 at 10:14 PM..
Old 8th March 2018
  #1798
Here for the gear
 
MIAD's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
Miad 4040s in the chain too but I think one of them is broken (one is much quieter than the other and has no bottom end) :/
Hi b0se,

Sorry to hear that. This is weird because I always check/ test every single unit prior to shipping. Please drop me an email at [email protected] and I'll take care of the rest
Old 8th March 2018
  #1799
Lives for gear
 
b0se's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIAD View Post
Hi b0se,

Sorry to hear that. This is weird because I always check/ test every single unit prior to shipping. Please drop me an email at [email protected] and I'll take care of the rest
Magic. Thanks!
Old 8th March 2018
  #1800
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
Mine arrived in 2-3 days to the UK. Happy days.

The SB—being my first bit of outboard—set the bar so damn high for other HW.

Have a HCL Varis on the inserts and absolutely loving it. Miad 4040s in the chain too but I think one of them is broken (one is much quieter than the other and has no bottom end) :/
I will likely have Elysia XFilter 500 and XPressor 500 in the inserts which hopefully will be a nice blend of Mojo / Clean processing.

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