The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
[2nd Mic] Should I get Neumann u87 for vocals - I have AT4050 Condenser Microphones
Old 7th October 2015
  #1
Gear Nut
 

[2nd Mic] Should I get Neumann u87 for vocals - I have AT4050

Hi,

If I have the AT4050 do you think I'd see a night & day difference by getting the Neumann u87 for recording rap vocals?

If not, what are some other good microphones that you'd recommend as well? I thought about the KSM44 but I'm not too sure if the Neumann u87 is the one I need or maybe the Blue Kiwi.

Idk, what do you guys think?
Old 7th October 2015
  #2
Gear Nut
 

Eighty six views and zero responses?
Old 7th October 2015
  #3
Gear Addict
 
Dan Popp's Avatar
Hi, Technica.
Maybe a good place to start would be to define the particular thing that the AT isn't giving you, and then search for a mic that does that. The U87 is certainly a good, all-around mic (assuming you have some EQ following it), but it seems that you're looking to fill in the gaps where you think the 4050 might fall short. I imagine you'd want a "larger than life" mic for Rap, which is not what the KSM mics do.
Old 8th October 2015
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Me_Likey's Avatar
 

A Neumann has a particular sound. If you can afford it, the U87ai will probably be your #1 . If you are hiring out your studio a U87ai is a great investment, especially if you buy it at used prices. The other Neumann LDCs are worth considering as well. The TLM 103 gets a lot of love in Rap circles.

The AT mics are great bang for buck, but nobody ever got fired for using a Neumann.
Old 8th October 2015
  #5
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Me_Likey View Post
A Neumann has a particular sound. If you can afford it, the U87ai will probably be your #1 . If you are hiring out your studio a U87ai is a great investment, especially if you buy it at used prices. The other Neumann LDCs are worth considering as well. The TLM 103 gets a lot of love in Rap circles.

The AT mics are great bang for buck, but nobody ever got fired for using a Neumann.
Do you mind telling me what's so special about it compared to the AT's or other mics less than 1 grand?

I've heard that suppose-ably it's mainly good when you begin mixing? Like if I was trying to stack vocals it would sound more natural, is that true? You know what I mean?
Old 8th October 2015
  #6
Lives for gear
 
Me_Likey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by T E C H N I C A View Post
Do you mind telling me what's so special about it compared to the AT's or other mics less than 1 grand?

I've heard that suppose-ably it's mainly good when you begin mixing? Like if I was trying to stack vocals it would sound more natural, is that true? You know what I mean?
Distortion, or lack of distortion is the main difference. The tolerances at Neumann are far more demanding than AT. It makes a big difference when stacked or by itself.

Neumanns are voiced different too. Some people call them "boxy", but they have a massive track record of great recordings. They seem "boring" when you first get one, but after working for a while you realize what great tools they make.
Old 8th October 2015
  #7
Lives for gear
 
VO Guy's Avatar
 

If you have the $$$ the 87 is an excellent choice. Don't expect miracles from it,
but over time I have come to appreciate how that little bit of extra quality it brings makes a huge difference after all the mixing and mastering is done.
Old 8th October 2015
  #8
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Me_Likey View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by T E C H N I C A View Post
Do you mind telling me what's so special about it compared to the AT's or other mics less than 1 grand?

I've heard that suppose-ably it's mainly good when you begin mixing? Like if I was trying to stack vocals it would sound more natural, is that true? You know what I mean?
Distortion, or lack of distortion is the main difference. The tolerances at Neumann are far more demanding than AT. It makes a big difference when stacked or by itself.

Neumanns are voiced different too. Some people call them "boxy", but they have a massive track record of great recordings. They seem "boring" when you first get one, but after working for a while you realize what great tools they make.
1.) So will I hear a night & day difference in your opinion?

2.) Also I'll be using an

AT4050
Apollo Twin Duo
Neumann KH 120

You think the money could go some where else or would you still prefer the Neumann?
Old 8th October 2015
  #9
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by VO Guy View Post
If you have the $$$ the 87 is an excellent choice. Don't expect miracles from it,
but over time I have come to appreciate how that little bit of extra quality it brings makes a huge difference after all the mixing and mastering is done.

1.) So will I hear a night & day difference in your opinion (from At4050 to u87)?

2.) Also I'll be using an

AT4050
Apollo Twin Duo
Neumann KH 120

You think the money could go some where else or would you still prefer the Neumann?
Old 8th October 2015
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Me_Likey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by T E C H N I C A View Post
1.) So will I hear a night & day difference in your opinion?

2.) Also I'll be using an

AT4050
Apollo Twin Duo
Neumann KH 120

You think the money could go some where else or would you still prefer the Neumann?
I don't know what you can hear and what you can't hear. A lot of people can't hear the difference and then complain about not being able to make it sound "professional". A U87ai is a great mic, but an over priced one. Is it worth it? I dunno. It's worth it to me, but it may not be to you. Try buying used and give it time. Don't do a single shoot out and declare a winner.

Not sure if the money is better spent somewhere else. Room treatment? Tube amp? You could actually buy a pair of decent stereo mics for that money. Do you ever need to record stereo?

All I can say is the U87ai is a great mic, only you can say if it will work for you. It's a tool that proves itself over time, I think a lot of people are expecting some big, lush, over-the-top sound because of it's notoriety, but it's not like that at all.

Good luck
Old 8th October 2015
  #11
Lives for gear
 
uncle duncan's Avatar
 

What's the go-to mic on the rap circuit? Considering the lemming-like behavior of the public, you might be best served by getting whatever it is they expect to see when they walk in your studio.

If you can afford a U87, great. At least you won't lose money on it if you have to resell it. Reselling less revered mics doesn't usually work out too well for the seller of they bought new. If you do get a U87, you might consider getting insurance for your studio.
Old 8th October 2015
  #12
Lives for gear
 
nosebleedaudio's Avatar
 

I would listen to a AT4047MP first, sounds nice for far less cheese..
Old 8th October 2015
  #13
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by T E C H N I C A View Post
Hi,

If I have the AT4050 do you think I'd see a night & day difference by getting the Neumann u87 for recording rap vocals?

If not, what are some other good microphones that you'd recommend as well? I thought about the KSM44 but I'm not too sure if the Neumann u87 is the one I need or maybe the Blue Kiwi.

Idk, what do you guys think?
u87 is smooth! that is the way I describe it... just so "smooth"
Old 8th October 2015
  #14
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by camomiletea View Post
u87 is smooth! that is the way I describe it... just so "smooth"
If I have the AT4050 do you think I'd see a night & day difference by getting the Neumann u87 for recording rap vocals?

I want the Neumann u87 but not if it isn't actually worth paying that much more for.
Old 8th October 2015
  #15
Lives for gear
 

Is it for you or for potential clients? I might add a mic that has little to no proximity effect. Say you or one of your clients do a lot of movement in the booth. Maybe they can't express themselves any other way to get the vibe for the tracks? That's a lot of ducking and diving for a U87 or AT4050. A mic like an RE20 doesn't see that. Also the two mics cover a lot of the same ground imo, I might look for something at the moment that really helps you in a pinch (like when you got that rapper that throws down in front of the mic and can't hit their mark), and adds a missing and much needed piece to the toolkit. If you're looking to draw clients to your studio names like Neumann should help your cause.
Old 8th October 2015
  #16
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mulcahy View Post
Is it for you or for potential clients? I might add a mic that has little to no proximity effect. Say you or one of your clients do a lot of movement in the booth. Maybe they can't express themselves any other way to get the vibe for the tracks? That's a lot of ducking and diving for a U87 or AT4050. A mic like an RE20 doesn't see that. Also the two mics cover a lot of the same ground imo, I might look for something at the moment that really helps you in a pinch (like when you got that rapper that throws down in front of the mic and can't hit their mark), and adds a missing and much needed piece to the toolkit. If you're looking to draw clients to your studio names like Neumann should help your cause.
It would be for me, I'm not opening up any studio or allowing anyone to have access to my equipment.
Old 9th October 2015
  #17
Lives for gear
 

Then if it were me I'd add some more extreme colors to the picture so to speak not worrying about marketing to clients.
Old 9th October 2015
  #18
Lives for gear
 
Me_Likey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mulcahy View Post
Then if it were me I'd add some more extreme colors to the picture so to speak not worrying about marketing to clients.
IMO, this is good advice. Look in to some of the mid-range "boutique" makers like Advanced Audio, Stellar, etc. Maybe a good tube mic to compliment the AT, possibly a U47 flavor for male rap vocals?

A U87 is about as establishment as you can get.
Old 9th October 2015
  #19
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mulcahy View Post
Then if it were me I'd add some more extreme colors to the picture so to speak not worrying about marketing to clients.
So

AT4050
Apollo Twin Duo
Neumann KH 120
Sound treated room

What do you think is the best thing to purchase next? Another microphone or an external preamp?
Old 9th October 2015
  #20
Lives for gear
 

What kind of preamp's do you have?
Old 9th October 2015
  #21
Lives for gear
 
VO Guy's Avatar
 

Quote:
If I have the AT4050 do you think I'd see a night & day difference by getting the Neumann u87 for recording rap vocals?
I don't do rap, I do voiceover and I certainly don't know a lot about rap, but what I can say is that from what I've seen there are a lot more rap artists jones-ing for a U87 than for an AT 4050.

For the $$$ the AT 4050 is a very good mic. A U87 is (used, which is the only way you should buy one IMO just be sure you shop smart) 4x the price of the 4050.

You can get the job done with the 4050. The U87 will IMO have more punch and weight and presence, and in a way that is still smooth and (for most voices) flattering.

But if your ear has become accustomed to the bright top and extended bottom of many of the lower priced mics these days, the U87 may at first sound a bit cold and rolled-off. You have to work with it some and hear it in action in the context of a mix to really begin to appreciate what a powerful tool it is in the right hands.

Okay, I'm done.
Old 9th October 2015
  #22
Lives for gear
 
Whack Doofa's Avatar
Hire a U87 for a day.

That will convince you to buy one.
Old 9th October 2015
  #23
Lives for gear
 
uncle duncan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by T E C H N I C A View Post
It would be for me, I'm not opening up any studio or allowing anyone to have access to my equipment.
In that case, I'd say a U87 would be overkill. How are you EQing your vocals? If you're adding more high end and more low end, you'd want a mic with more extremes in the highs and lows. How are your S's coming out? A brighter mic is going to increase the chance of sibilance. If you're not worried about S's, I'd probably get one of the Stellar tube mics. The CM5 is the brighter of the two, but the CM6 has a nice shine on top and it's got a big, beefy sound. The AT4047 is another nice character mic with a big sound, but the highs sound a little... "dirty" - something you'd probably notice in a rap mix. You could also look into the Advanced Audio U87 clone, which is said to be a little on the bright side compared to a real U87. Dave Thomas from Advanced Audio did mention the U87 picks up a lot of 400 hz from the back side of the capsule. I you're not in a good room, your U87 could sound really congested in the low mids.

Last edited by uncle duncan; 9th October 2015 at 01:44 AM..
Old 9th October 2015
  #24
270182
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me_Likey View Post
I don't know what you can hear and what you can't hear.
I don't either, but he would have to have significant hearing loss not to hear the difference.
Old 9th October 2015
  #25
Lives for gear
 
Me_Likey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASCMe View Post
I don't either, but he would have to have significant hearing loss not to hear the difference.
But as mentioned earlier, he might have acclimated to the hyped top end and think it sounds better than the Neumann. Trial, error, and time is essential to evaluate any mic, IMO.

I dunno. Trying to convince somebody that a U87 is a nice mic is a little ridiculous. Turn on the radio and chances are you're already listening to it.
Old 9th October 2015
  #26
270182
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me_Likey View Post
But as mentioned earlier, he might have acclimated to the hyped top end and think it sounds better than the Neumann. Trial, error, and time is essential to evaluate any mic, IMO.

I dunno. Trying to convince somebody that a U87 is a nice mic is a little ridiculous. Turn on the radio and chances are you're already listening to it.
Yeah, I know. People want to find something too good to be true. They want to buy a Rode or an AT and have a different result everyone else has had. While they might with their specific voice and application, eventually, they will become tone chasers and be disenchanted with everything until they find "it".
Old 9th October 2015
  #27
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASCMe View Post
I don't either, but he would have to have significant hearing loss not to hear the difference.
Hmm

So I'll have an AT4050, Apollo twin duo and Neumann KH 120.

Do you think my money is best spent on this Neumann Microphone or should I invest in an external preamp? My room will be properly sound treated.
Old 9th October 2015
  #28
Lives for gear
 
uncle duncan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by T E C H N I C A View Post
Hmm

So I'll have an AT4050, Apollo twin duo and Neumann KH 120.

Do you think my money is best spent on this Neumann Microphone or should I invest in an external preamp? My room will be properly sound treated.
At this point, if your budget is $2500, you should take $100 of that and rent time in a studio that has a U87 and a handful of other good mics. Bring one of your music tracks and record a vocal with each mic to see how they sound in the track, especially compared to your 4050. Hopefully, a winner will jump out at you. Seriously, if you're buying gear exclusively for your own voice, getting the right mic is the first, most crucial step. There's no way of knowing which mic to get until you listen to how your voice sounds through it. The alternative is spending $2500 on a whim.
Old 9th October 2015
  #29
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by T E C H N I C A View Post
Hi,

If I have the AT4050 do you think I'd see a night & day difference by getting the Neumann u87 for recording rap vocals?

If not, what are some other good microphones that you'd recommend as well? I thought about the KSM44 but I'm not too sure if the Neumann u87 is the one I need or maybe the Blue Kiwi.

Idk, what do you guys think?
It's also worth looking at the Gefell UMT 70S - 3-pattern switchable and with the Georg Neumann M7 capsule.

Old 9th October 2015
  #30
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle duncan View Post
At this point, if your budget is $2500, you should take $100 of that and rent time in a studio that has a U87 and a handful of other good mics. Bring one of your music tracks and record a vocal with each mic to see how they sound in the track, especially compared to your 4050. Hopefully, a winner will jump out at you. Seriously, if you're buying gear exclusively for your own voice, getting the right mic is the first, most crucial step. There's no way of knowing which mic to get until you listen to how your voice sounds through it. The alternative is spending $2500 on a whim.
Words of wisdom!

To me, main question of this thread isn't really possible to answer by asking at internet forum.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump