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The magical Univibe/Vibe pedal where to put it?? Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 28th July 2014
  #1
Lives for gear
The magical Univibe/Vibe pedal where to put it??

I know will the common answer to this sort of thing is try and see and yeah, that is what one ends up doing. I mull over where to place certain pedals and I find the placement of phasers results in different tonal colors and sweeps.

Since the Vibe is basically a 4 stage phaser with a tremolo like pitch throw at a point in the sweep it can be placed before or after dirt pedals.
I go round and round with this all the time. I no more than place the pedal and then ponder, what if it was here instead?

To complicate matters seems like everyone has a different ideal.
Pedals follow a rule of dominance, anything that comes after carries the most dominant effect and that includes phasers/vibes.

Some say they sound more metallic after, but isn't that more a matter of what else you are doing and if it sounds tinny maybe you should try and tweak something in a little?
Is Bridge of Sighs metallic???
Seems like it has become popular to put the Vibe more in front or all the way in front of any overdrive. I have further issues with this as I use several pedals front of chain that need to be there for proper tracking. In the last year I must have moved my vibe a half dozen times unable to decide. Sometimes I find you have to ignore what might be popular and take another look at something.

Here are some of the issues I have with Vibe before drives:
When I first marveled at this pedal, even having an original for a time and not having a really good one or perhaps it needed repaired. All my favorite tunes that inspired how cool this pedal is to me it was place end of chain. The thing had a terrible buffer and old fuzz units could not handle the buffer nor the pulse sweep of the unit so it went at the end.
Jimi Hendrix used it at the end of the chain.
Early Trower was end of chain, now he uses it up front.
Gilmour's use of the Vibe was end of chain, it remains presently after his drive and gain section in his Cornish inspired board.

Now it has become popular to place the Vibe in front of drives, and Trower now runs his via advice from Fuller in front of his chain.
Gilmour still uses his after dirt and his tone is as legend as Trower. Bridge of Sighs and so many others were end of chain.
Arguably when Trower switched to the Deja Vibe he started using in front and it works no doubt. Robin's tone is as good as it ever was because after all he is the man. But the sound is different. His new rig does not sound like the old stuff even when he does these tunes live. Still sounds amazing but it is different.

Here's what I find:
In front the sweep of a phase or Vibe is somewhat muffled and reduced, the clarity is not there. There is a difference not that one is "better", I like to explore that.

The rule of dominance means the OD after sound will be dominant and the Vibe sweep reduced. A lot depends on the overdrive type and use of course.
Some prefer than more buffered muted sweep as it becomes more of a tremolo effect with a hint of phase. But it changes the fullness of your drive or gain tone may not be a bad thing but it does change it.

Problems come up that usually a tremolo sounds better at the end via amp's that had tremolo circuits were placed after the preamp before the power amp or amp loop location if you will. A Vibe is more like a phasing tremolo sound.
Clarity is enhanced after overdrive where one used to place modulation as the place it belonged after dirt. Now a days that is considered old school, but you know what, old school produced some epic tunes and Gilmour still has his like he used to. So perhaps we should not dismiss off hand.

I know when I had the Vibe in front if I had a complex OD stack going on where the tone was just magical kicking on the Vibe did not help the tone at all. It was messing up the guitar response and dynamics of that tone stack.

So what is the clarity and the sweep definition, it is how Gilmour gets that watery Breath sound, how Hendrix got all that cool cleaner Hey Baby-Risen Sun tone, end of chain into the amp. Hendrix used the Fuzz Face with his guitar volume down to make it like a clean boost.
Gilmour's massive sound is what it is and that is a Univibe integrated into his Cornish board rig on a looper bypass to take it out of line.
No one can argue Trower gets a full massive tone out of his front placed Vibe but one can hear the difference between the old and the new.
Neither is "better" but you can hear the clarity I am talking about.

Witness in a std phaser the tones of EVH with the phase in front, massive heavy but the sweep is buffered through the drive and if you want that Pagey phaser thing with the articulation it has to go after.
EVH also ran his into a gained amp not a pedal and that makes a difference. I personally do not hear the same quality when players run a phase into a high gain pedal, an amp is different. And there is where I am at.

If I want the Vibe going into more an overdrive tone to buffer down the sweep phase, there is the matter of the amp itself. A darker more close to breakup amp tone sounds better than any overdrive the Vibe is run into.
So you can get the cleaner tone and the dirtier tone as well as an option.
Unlike a phaser most vibes sound terrible into a high gain or fuzz, the note definition is a wash out mush. So one could argue the Vibe sounds good in front of drives but not so much in front of high gains.

So question to discuss, argue,and hurl vile insults buried in text. If you place the Vibe or phase after dirt you get increased clarity and note definition like Breath, Crazy Diamond, cleaner Hendrix and early Trower plus if you want the more into OD sound you simply switch channels or presets on your amp which ends up being better than a pedal anyway. Additonal plus also is when you get your perfect pedal OD tone thing going you do not have a tremolo like sweep messing with the overall tone structure and levels.
One only need to refer to Trower's epic masterpieces of Bridge of Sighs and others for a massive gained up tone with it after or Hendrix' Machine Gun.
It most definitely works well.
I use my phaser after my drives because I like more the Pagey phaser sound with articulation and if I want the EVH thing it is an easy channel switch to gain up a Triaxis uber gain tone with the phaser into that.

Is it not the best of both worlds?
A Vibe can also be placed in the amp loop despite the garlic to Dracula reaction Fuller had to such a thing.
Personally I am into setting my rig and system up in a manner that offers me the most options and tonal ranges. So with the Vibe after my drive section I get the best of all uses from early Hendrix, Trower, and present Gilmour to the newer into OD thing by changing my amp settings/channel.

Opinions, thoughts, hate it, love it, shut up???
Yeah, I know, shut up...
Old 28th July 2014
  #2
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eve69's Avatar
 

it depends upon whether you're using compression, a buffer, overdrive, and whether you're tracking or playing live - you can always double a track with one channel going through a tremolo pluggy

if you're playing with compression then your signal should not waver in terms of loudness, but if you don't use any compression then your tremolo does change voltage load at the knob rate, according to the bias set

so for me that means i care less about where and more about the amount of signal saturation because at a certain point the signal is loud all the way through the sweep whereas without the saturation or sustain of compression you will get more drama
Old 29th July 2014
  #3
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I am just creating a live rig these days, if I were tracking parts I would probably just plug in what worked for a track. But as it is I want my live board to be able to have as many options and better musically useful ones with the array of pedals I use.
I was running through some stuff today, great jam. The tones were happening. Still not really happy with the Vibe result being end of chain.
Thinking of just sticking an overdrive after it and still using my drive section the way I have it.
A lot of times my preamp tone is working really well and I do not to alter it just for the Vibe so maybe an after OD to absorb the Vibe a little.

The Phaser is doing fine after dirt and have no issue with it. Part of the fun for me in having so many options is not to be afraid to get in there and change some stuff and experiment. I really only use the Vibe on my Trower and Hendrix style so I do not want to mess up my drive section which is hitting it out of the park in the stacking combinations I have going. Looking forward later on this year to get into some recording gear to have some fun creating some tracks. I have no illusions of fame or fortune these days, just love playing and having some fun with it.
______________
I found a solution for the in front of drive thing to be my Giggity pedal. I run the Vibe into that instead of after it and that serves as an OD which enables all options. I also moved my Pinnacle higher gain after the Giggity as it seemed to be altering the tone structure too much as to what that pedal is able to render. Giggity does wonders with overdrives and fuzz. At any rate I did a compromise chain alteration for more options and things seem to be ringing the cow bell rather well.
So moral for the Vibe position question is arrange to have a drive before and after seems to be the best way.
Old 30th July 2014
  #4
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eve69's Avatar
 

ocd much?
Old 30th July 2014
  #5

I was looking for a vibe... I got an Orbital Modulator.

Now, I think I might take the chorus off the board and I don't think the DOD phasor is going to go on. May have to keep the flanger - it's my split for parallel chains....



-tINY

Old 30th July 2014
  #6
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allphourus's Avatar
 

Why not use three, each a different flavor at the three points in the signal chain one in front close to the guitar, one at the end before the amp input and one in the loop for maximum flexibility and tonal variation.
Old 30th July 2014
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allphourus View Post
Why not use three, each a different flavor at the three points in the signal chain one in front close to the guitar, one at the end before the amp input and one in the loop for maximum flexibility and tonal variation.
A novel idea, got another $600 bucks handy?
I do think that Decibel Pedal Pallet might be novel to be able to switch pedal order via a switcher.


Just wanting to discuss pedals and chain positions. Somehow I thought that is of interest to pedal users. We could all just stop communicating, sit around the fire at the cave entrance, belch, fart and grunt.
Old 30th July 2014
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eve69 View Post
ocd much?
Given any thought to participating in discussion or just visit blogs to render two word insults?
I thought we were here to talk pedals and gear.
I did not realize we were suppose to not say anything, read and fart.
Old 30th July 2014
  #9
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Johnny Favorite's Avatar
 

hmmmmm... If I needed both tones (before and after OD), I'd probably just sandwich the vibe between two od pedals.
Old 30th July 2014
  #10
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eve69's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkhorse View Post
Given any thought to participating in discussion or just visit blogs to render two word insults?
I thought we were here to talk pedals and gear.
I did not realize we were suppose to not say anything, read and fart.
I thought from your amount of posts that you were a big contributor - but now that I see half of them are just calling other people out and making trouble and speaking about farting, belching, and I missed the vomit posts s - please give us links. Basically, you earned a block from me. So later gater. And I will continue keeping on just as myself. You have the entirely free will to block me too. Buh Bye

no mention of my first post where I actually was on point and helpful - helpful obviously isn't what you want - you want to browbeat people and run off scrambled musings (which miss the point entirely) like diahreah. My mistake for answering your zero reply thread.
Old 30th July 2014
  #11
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allphourus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkhorse View Post
A novel idea, got another $600 bucks handy?
I do think that Decibel Pedal Pallet might be novel to be able to switch pedal order via a switcher.


Just wanting to discuss pedals and chain positions. Somehow I thought that is of interest to pedal users. We could all just stop communicating, sit around the fire at the cave entrance, belch, fart and grunt.
No, I was Quite serious, When I finally Get around to putting everything on a Pedal Board this is the way I'll go, I'm even reasonably sure of the pedals I will employ.

First in the signal chain will be a MJM Sixties Vibe
Second Will be a Mobius
and in the Loop will be A Neo Instruments Ventilator

And just to return the insult Eve 69 is dead on right about you you have already beat this topic to death else where.
Old 31st July 2014
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eve69 View Post
I thought from your amount of posts that you were a big contributor - but now that I see half of them are just calling other people out and making trouble and speaking about farting, belching, and I missed the vomit posts s - please give us links. Basically, you earned a block from me. So later gater. And I will continue keeping on just as myself. You have the entirely free will to block me too. Buh Bye

no mention of my first post where I actually was on point and helpful - helpful obviously isn't what you want - you want to browbeat people and run off scrambled musings (which miss the point entirely) like diahreah. My mistake for answering your zero reply thread.
Answering what? I do contribute and I also write and comment, no one has to participate let alone insulting is not participating.
Some of my threads have tens of thousands of posts, most of my reviews thousands, so yes I am contributing to talking pedals and issues.
Why waste time commenting and creating a comment that does not pertain to the issue. I was asking what other users thing about where to place a Vibe pedal. Some like before and some after drives. Maybe the solution is a mixed approach, that is all I said in the first place. Communication is not a one or two word insult or a quip of something not relevant or plausible.
I do love so much how people come and insult the hell out of you then act as if they have been insulted, that is pretty much clinical.
Old 31st July 2014
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Favorite View Post
hmmmmm... If I needed both tones (before and after OD), I'd probably just sandwich the vibe between two od pedals.
Seems to be the best solution I have found as I like both tones. Maybe a Pedal Palate pedal switcher unit that can switch the pedal order with a click. That way you do not get into the next puzzle of putting what drive before or after.
Old 31st July 2014
  #14
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Joe_K's Avatar
Get a Strymon Mobius for your modulation, that's the best solution I have found for building a live rig. You can change its position to before or after the drives using its external loop feature, and make that selection on a patch-by-patch basis within the Mobius. Solved the problem for me handily in one fell swoop and with all the great modulation engines on it, I have no need to look for any other modulation pedal. I no longer have to expend any energy and time thinking of the compromises to rearranging my pedals.
Old 31st July 2014
  #15
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Joe Porto's Avatar
 

After fuzz but before OD/distortion.
Old 1st August 2014
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_K View Post
Get a Strymon Mobius for your modulation, that's the best solution I have found for building a live rig. You can change its position to before or after the drives using its external loop feature, and make that selection on a patch-by-patch basis within the Mobius. Solved the problem for me handily in one fell swoop and with all the great modulation engines on it, I have no need to look for any other modulation pedal. I no longer have to expend any energy and time thinking of the compromises to rearranging my pedals.
I really dig Strymon wish the were a little easier for me to get.
Problem is I really like the organic real photocell circuit vibe, never been happy with various renderings. I am sure Strymon is top shelf but I just got my MDV3 after like a 3 mo wait and I really like that Deja circuit.


I ran some tests today with a compromised chain and things seem to be rather cool at the moment.
My drives are before the Vibe with the Giggity after it seems to work rather well and the articulation and tone are very good. I can also hit my amp with the Vibe for any gained up tones. I finding once I get this stacked killer drive tone if I put the Vibe in front it screws with the tone of my drive verses after it retains my primary tone and just phase/vibes it.
Old 1st August 2014
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Porto View Post
After fuzz but before OD/distortion.
Thanks for the input. Just want to know what others are doing and how they like it.
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