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Simple vs complex Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 28th March 2014
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagelove View Post
While I generally dislike the shred videos (only because some people are stupid enough to believe it is actually them playing). There is one that is truly piss you pants funny....

You were warned, please use the bathroom before watching
Oh my..not much needed doing there on vocals, really. Hilarious!
Old 28th March 2014
  #152
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Theo Stobbe's Avatar
 

Once upon a time there was no internet.
But Malmsteen came through.
Old 28th March 2014
  #153
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Hmm, cryptic, Theo.
Malmsteem would've found his way no matter what.
The jewelry propels him.
><

Old 28th March 2014
  #154
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Theo Stobbe's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pchicago View Post
Hmm, cryptic, Theo.
Malmsteem would've found his way no matter what.
The jewelry propels him.
><

We all know the long row of guitarists who set standards and Malmsteen is one of them.
And as you say "would have found", he DID find!

(how's the short scale ukelele? )
Old 28th March 2014
  #155
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Theo Stobbe's Avatar
 

I love Malmsteen for bringing back the vintage tremolo bridge in hardrock, in a Kahler and Floyd Rose dominated division then. Extreme diving with well maintained bridge. He impressed in interviews about lutherie, then. Generous kind of man.
Old 28th March 2014
  #156
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Remember, in the words that could only be uttered by Yng





"More is more"

Classic....
Old 28th March 2014
  #157
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Theo Stobbe's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
I can take Malmsteen for like 30 seconds before I'm bored to tears.
I could do a one year tour!
Old 28th March 2014
  #158
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It is somewhat hard to argue with success and legend status. I wish I just had one of his red Ferraris or the nice mansion he lives in. One can toss up al lot names as so and so does that, but at the end of the day Ingwie (Eng-vay) is living up on the hill and is a legend in his country as a composer and musician.
As with a lot of musicians listening to them on a personal level reveals personalities that may not be as ego free and "down to earth" as we might like, but as Elvis once put it, "Hell, if I was normal I would not be here."

Seems like the term "shredder" is getting a derogatory put down directive. Let me just say just because someone is capable of playing their ass off does not make some far less accomplished player better. We all have our ranges of playing. The greater that range the better rounded the musician. Ingwie is not going to be a studio guitarist who can cop to different things easily. But a few notes and you know right off who it is. Just as I can tell Pagey or Jeff Beck regardless of what he is playing.
Most of is when we die it will be as if we never lived, Malmsteen will exist in history as accomplishing something. I respect his talent. If you're expecting his tunes to be on the pop play list maybe you are barking at the wrong moon.
Old 28th March 2014
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagelove View Post
Remember, in the words that could only be uttered by Yng





"More is more"

Classic....
Yes, Bach or Paganini should have stayed in the I,IV,V minor Pentatonic, 4/4 and played reaaaaallllllly slow and sporadic. Apples and Oranges. When is the last time anyone here was interviewed or questioned about their career? News flash most guitarists are not members of Mensa. Like a lot of Movie Stars we should not be listening to them off the screen.
Old 28th March 2014
  #160
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Theo Stobbe's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkhorse View Post
Seems like the term "shredder" is getting a derogatory put down directive.
"shredder" IS derogatory.
(It WAS an amelioration)

In the eighties nobody called himself a shredder. It was something to deserve, to be called by others.
Old 28th March 2014
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkhorse View Post
Yes, Bach or Paganini should have stayed in the I,IV,V minor Pentatonic, 4/4 and played reaaaaallllllly slow and sporadic. Apples and Oranges. When is the last time anyone here was interviewed or questioned about their career? News flash most guitarists are not members of Mensa. Like a lot of Movie Stars we should not be listening to them off the screen.
Just for the record, I like Yngwie. I have even taken the time to learn a Ynwie tune or 2. I literally meant that there is no one better to speak that quote.

"More is more"

Somebody had to have the balls to say it.

Even funnier, if you ever watch his lesson video from way way back. He plays a lick at about 160bpm. Then he's like

"ok, I will play it slow now"

Plays the same lick at 158bpm.


Classic....
Old 28th March 2014
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagelove View Post
Just for the record, I like Yngwie. I have even taken the time to learn a Ynwie tune or 2. I literally meant that there is no one better to speak that quote.

"More is more"

Somebody had to have the balls to say it.

Even funnier, if you ever watch his lesson video from way way back. He plays a lick at about 160bpm. Then he's like

"ok, I will play it slow now"

Plays the same lick at 158bpm.


Classic....
Oh I get it. I have laughed myself silly at some of his antics. The guys ego is larger than the state of Texas, he is a character for sure. I cannot do what he does, I can play fast but some of that is uncanny and seems like a yawn to him.
He is what he is. I like a lot of players over a vast range of styles and tones. And despite I do not do the country thing I still respect a few of them as good players, I do not just insult them as corn pone pickers. So Ingwie is a "shredder" whatever one terms to call super fast playing. It is not merely a collage of notes for the sake of notes, it has structure and mode. Some do not like it, fine, I probably do not like someone they like as well. Personally I get more bored on surf music and radio pop yada.
Old 28th March 2014
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkhorse View Post
Yes, Bach or Paganini should have stayed in the I,IV,V minor Pentatonic, 4/4 and played reaaaaallllllly slow and sporadic. Apples and Oranges. When is the last time anyone here was interviewed or questioned about their career? News flash most guitarists are not members of Mensa. Like a lot of Movie Stars we should not be listening to them off the screen.
Ha, lighten up a bit there, Darkhorse, it's only rock and roll. I've been questioned about my musical career on a regular for basis for years..The most popular question being "Who the fuk encouraged you to do this and what I do I need to do to get you to stop??!!"


People are offering opinions on who they like, or, prefer. It's perfectly subjective and has zero to do with anything except personal taste. So many of these guitar dudes *present* themselves with these sorta over the top images...clothes, opinion, stage antics..you don't think that's legitimate fodder for cracking on them a bit?

I mean, Im an old fan of Prince's work. I think that he's one of THE great funk guitarists. But, I am also fully aware that he is a self-involved, arrogant, cornball-over the top-dork who has made some really, really bad music and some horrifyingly bad 'films' in the span of his career. People make fun of him ALL the time but I don't feel the need to, egregiously, put those people in a diminished light for it..it's just the way it goes in human land.
Old 28th March 2014
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkhorse View Post
Oh I get it. I have laughed myself silly at some of his antics. The guys ego is larger than the state of Texas, he is a character for sure. I cannot do what he does, I can play fast but some of that is uncanny and seems like a yawn to him.
He is what he is. I like a lot of players over a vast range of styles and tones. And despite I do not do the country thing I still respect a few of them as good players, I do not just insult them as corn pone pickers. So Ingwie is a "shredder" whatever one terms to call super fast playing. It is not merely a collage of notes for the sake of notes, it has structure and mode. Some do not like it, fine, I probably do not like someone they like as well. Personally I get more bored on surf music and radio pop yada.

There isn't a single secret to his playing but here are a couple hints.

4 note sequences are almost always on a single string (easy to play) Harmonic minor

Descending single note fast scale runs are 3 notes per string, with economy picking.

Sweep arpeggios are fairly easy once you practice them, 3 string and 5 string are the ones that sound fast.

If you would like some specific exercises to work on, feel free to pm me. Basically, learn the seven scale positions, 3 notes per string, only go up to the second note on the last string. If done properly, by the time you get back to the root it will be perfect 16th notes. You can then connect the positions, by leaving out one note on the way down like this

e d c b () g shift to the second position. Continue through all positions.

If you do this, up and back down, it is a 500 note exercise. Do it a couple times with alternate picking, a couple times with economy picking. 10 minutes or less and your done with your technique practice for the day.

Then you add the chromatic passing tones.....

Now to everyone who is thinking oh that is useless....

If you learn this system, it is not only the fingerings for the major scale. It is the fingerings for the Major scale, along with all the Modes, in every position, and in every key. It is the roadmap for every note you will need for 90% of the music you will ever play. Add a diminished scale, and melodic minor, and your pretty good to go. Any other scales are as easy as adjusting a note or two from one of the modes.

Have fun!!!
Old 28th March 2014
  #165
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When I first saw this thread I thought about a song done by a songwriter from the UK, Carina Round, who lives in LA and is making her way. She's a great guitar player and she also rocks very hard. If you see her live she'll knock you down..great performer (IMO), lots of fun and always with a good band.

She has this clip on Youtube where she's starts a song on the beat of some water leaking into her house..."it's like playing with a bad drummer" she says.

Old 28th March 2014
  #166
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FFTT's Avatar
 

Our old washing machine had quite a cool groove rhythm in the agitate cycle.
Good for music and other assorted activities.

Had this cool a-1-a-2a-1-a-2a beat.
Old 28th March 2014
  #167
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Theo Stobbe's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pchicago View Post
When I first saw this thread I thought about a song done by a songwriter from the UK, Carina Round, who lives in LA and is making her way. She's a great guitar player and she also rocks very hard. If you see her live she'll knock you down..great performer (IMO), lots of fun and always with a good band.

She has this clip on Youtube where she's starts a song on the beat of some water leaking into her house..."it's like playing with a bad drummer" she says.

Thank you with deep bow!
Old 28th March 2014
  #168
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Theo Stobbe's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagelove View Post
There isn't a single secret to his playing but here are a couple hints.

4 note sequences are almost always on a single string (easy to play) Harmonic minor

Descending single note fast scale runs are 3 notes per string, with economy picking.

Sweep arpeggios are fairly easy once you practice them, 3 string and 5 string are the ones that sound fast.

If you would like some specific exercises to work on, feel free to pm me. Basically, learn the seven scale positions, 3 notes per string, only go up to the second note on the last string. If done properly, by the time you get back to the root it will be perfect 16th notes. You can then connect the positions, by leaving out one note on the way down like this

e d c b () g shift to the second position. Continue through all positions.

If you do this, up and back down, it is a 500 not exercise. Do it a couple times with alternate picking, a couple times with economy picking. 10 minutes or less and your done with your technique practice for the day.

Then you add the chromatic passing tones.....

Now to everyone who is thinking oh that is useless....

If you learn this system, it is not only the fingerings for the major scale. It is the fingerings for the Major scale, along with all the Modes, in every position, and in every key. It is the roadmap for every note you will need for 90% of the music you will ever play. Add a diminished scale, and melodic minor, and your pretty good to go. Any other scales are as easy as adjusting a note or two from one of the modes.

Have fun!!!
This is the uphill part?
Old 29th March 2014
  #169
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Theo Stobbe's Avatar
 

Till now, the thread is nice, but in another thread someone introduced "most people suck" and "don't you know child molesters?". I hope we stay in here with music. As far as I am concerned, everyone is allowed to make his point. Even if I don't like it. It's called freedom. Guitarists are known for their freedom loving. Nothing to do with bad persons.

I believe in the power of music.
Old 29th March 2014
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theo S View Post
This is the uphill part?


Nope, thats how you learn to pick like Yngwie. The uphill part is about 10,000 hours practice.

Nice way to ridicule me for offering a little help to another player btw.
Old 29th March 2014
  #171
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Theo Stobbe's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagelove View Post
Nope, thats how you learn to pick like Yngwie. The uphill part is about 10,000 hours practice.

Nice way to ridicule me for offering a little help to another player btw.
You should read the thread name. That's helping.
1000 paths and 10.000 hours
Anything more?
Or bigger?

Allan Holdsworth started with seventeen. Within a year he played with John Hiseman and Tony Williams. Because he had talent. A lot of young people have talent. I would never bother my students with high resistance long time training extravaganza. They just need to play music. Not to prove anything. No karate kid eastern focus.

Remarkable is: Holdsworth is one of the few very fast ones, who plays AND complex lines AND used a complex sound, class a (with 5th harmonics distortion)*
That was the reason for my thread. Is there anyone, who could mention a 'shredder' playing class a?

* After that it became Marshall, Mesa, Lab Series, Yamaha DG, etc. (all class a/b or solid state)
Old 29th March 2014
  #172
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Carina Round is the tip of the month for me. Wow, what a voice. And fresh music! I immediately checked the other youtubes. That jazzmaster was at some point too simple, my wife told me, but very mojo in my ears. Powerful.

My students read this stuff. We discuss things in music industry. I have a studio. We talk about technology, network, people in general, music scores (we do 50% classical guitar) and the future of music as it is. I have a small shop for classical guitars, starter and mid prized. We are living in a very small village and it feels like a commune.

Theo Stobbe
Old 29th March 2014
  #173
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Carina Round

Yep,

Carina's the real deal. Every time I've seen her play I walk out shaking my head saying.."Why isn't she a huge star?". The music industry is screwy. She's had record deals..red tape and bs gets in the way. She works with great people and has toured with some very high profile bands, lots of folks who believe in her etc. IMO, her "Slow Motion" doesn't sound good sonically..I like the tunes but I want it to be more comfy from a sonic standpoint and maybe a bit of arrangement.

If you get the chance to see her live with band (or without)..she will delight and surprise you in many ways. she knows how to work a stage and goes from huge and powerful to delicate and beautiful with no effort. She does make the Euro scene so watch her tour list..could be just a quick train ride for you.

Spread the word over there about her..she has a decent fan base but deserves more. Brilliant and beautiful young talent with a monster voice. Glad you enjoyed that.
Old 29th March 2014
  #174
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkhorse View Post
Shredder? Is that basically anyone who can play?
Some chaps around here, I doubt they are a pimple on someone's ass.
No. It's a person who elevates sheer dumb technique above musicality and art.

Malmsteen is a shredder. Tuck Andress, Howard Roberts, Joe Pass, Chet Atkins, Danny Gatton, and Jeff Beck are not.
Old 29th March 2014
  #175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pchicago View Post
These guys like Satriani, Johnson, Vai and Malmsteen. I watch them for a few minutes and then I move on. Especially Vai and Satriani..gone.

Ok I tend to continue watching Malmsteen because of the way he looks in those clothes..he looks like some sort of beast from an English beast story about a strange beast..and I know he's not english. His fat fingers running the fretboard..hair, clothes..he's a strange spectacle and then he needst o spin the guitar around his neck on the strap. LOL. He does seem like he's a fairly nice fellow though.

Johnson seems to be the less flashy of the bunch.

He doesn't really do the old..looking at the crowd, making facial gestures and trying to drum up adulation *thing*. I appreciate that. He certainly is one helluva technical guitar player..probably the most melodic of the bunch, which i like.

I can't stand watching Satriani and Vai doing that crowd thing..It's almost like they're trying to wake everyone up...facial gestures that say.."that was excellent, wadn't it?? no? watch this now!"

Don't get me wrong, I AM the pimple on someone's butt in terms of being a great guitar player. These guys can all play their asses off..really fly..but it doesn't mean I cant make fun of them..Most of them are total Spinal Tap bait in terms of how they present themselves..it's kinda funny.

..I find sometimes watching these dudes that the dynamic doesn't change much cause it's clustered around supporting this one dude who, most of the time, is wailing away. I don't think I could survive a show from any of them, honestly.

The best thing I ever saw from Vai was actually a shred on Youtube and when I watch this I laugh my ass off..

My friend Max Volume* has a band called The Naked Lady Wrestlers in which he satirizes shredders. He plays a few amazingly fast riffs, then goes strutting around the stage mouthing off like a pro wrestler sh*t talking. "You think that was fast? Try THIS!". He does a version of "Flight Of the Bumblebee" that's so fast that nobody can even hear it. "Ya wanna hear it again??"

It's a real crackup. Fortunately he tends to restrict his sets to only around 15 or 20 minutes because even as satire it does get old pretty quickly.

*- DISAMBIGUATION - this is the original Max Volume from San Francisco, not the other Max Volume form Nevada who has an apparently self-penned Wiki page.

For this Max Volume look up Naked Lady Wrestlers.
Old 29th March 2014
  #176
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Theo Stobbe's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
My friend Max Volume* has a band called The Naked Lady Wrestlers in which he satirizes shredders. He plays a few amazingly fast riffs, then goes strutting around the stage mouthing off like a pro wrestler sh*t talking. "You think that was fast? Try THIS!". He does a version of "Flight Of the Bumblebee" that's so fast that nobody can even hear it. "Ya wanna hear it again??"

It's a real crackup. Fortunately he tends to restrict his sets to only around 15 or 20 minutes because even as satire it does get old pretty quickly.
Haha, I would like to see and hear that. I wouldn't get the satire and would be begging for more! I like 'shredders'!

And as one fine guitarist stated:"Tuck is my name and guitar is my game".
Old 30th March 2014
  #178
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FFTT's Avatar
 

Without seeing the Traveling Wilbury's Documentary, and seeing them
tracking Two 12 strings and Two Six strings simultaneously, it was hard to imagine how Tom always has such an excellent full acoustic guitar tone.

The chords may be simple, but the results are impressive.

You also hear Mike Campbell's lead notes are perfectly timed so there's no conflict with the lead vocal.






On Learning To Fly, I'm hearing a pair of 12 strings, a 6 string steel and a gut string acoustic all played together for the strums.

In both songs the groove is perfect.
Old 31st March 2014
  #179
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Theo Stobbe's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
The chords may be simple, but the results are impressive.
You said:" . . . BUT the results are impressive."

I would say:" . . . AND the results are impressive."

And yes, you are right by showing these clips. Steel string acoustics tend to have complex sounds, so much the more 12 strings, so much the more multiple of them.

Thank you!

I remember Al Di Meola for almost killing his sound for speed purposes, while Paco de Lucia played full sound on a nylon string as fast as he did.
It could be a matter of vowels and consonants.

Vowels: more slow and simple. (vocal, mid range, complex sound, class a, 'alive', human, communicating, etc)
Consonants: fast, articulated and complex. (pulse like, deepest deep, highest high, think modern bass guitar, flat sound, abstract, technical, subordinate, full range)

But again: Holdsworth being very vowel and fast! The big exception?
Old 31st March 2014
  #180
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Nice detail: nylon string!
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