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Full range guitar sound
Old 10th March 2014
  #1
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Theo Stobbe's Avatar
 

Full range guitar sound

I like the approach of using broadband audio components for guitar amplifying (broadcast like, mastering like, etc.), as opposed to "wanting to sound like . . . "

I am curious for who does like this more "theoretical" (Tuck Andress) approach.
Old 10th March 2014
  #2
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+1, but I remind we use electric guitar amplifiers and specifically built cabs, because over a certain frequency distorting tubes create audible noise.
Old 10th March 2014
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edoardo View Post
. . . tubes create audible noise.
Old 10th March 2014
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theo S View Post
HAHAHAH YEAH LOL.

Seriously, you don't wanna hear the FULL RANGE of a DISTORTED electric guitar.

That's why Tuck is a great tone maker but that's not going to revolutionize the industry.
It's not because the masses want to sound like someone else and sheets. it's because above 6, 8 or 9 KHz heated tubes make noise.

Try it yourself.
Old 10th March 2014
  #5
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FFTT's Avatar
 

You can start with a full range 15" EV, JBL or Fane.

By full range, do you mean from clean to mean, lows to highs,
or a massive FX library?

Some guys are experimenting with fretless guitars and/or going midi or they
have an Eventide in their racks just for kicks.

Other than electrical safety rules, there are no rules.

I've played pedal steel slide on a keyboard using the mod wheel for bends.

Generally a guitar covers a certain frequency range and other instruments like bass, keys, tom
and vocals cover the lower mids & bottom.

Playing alone you might want your guitar to "Be The Band" but once you start working with
a band, a lot of the added low end just turns the mix to mud.

If you seriously want to cover highs to lows, do a double neck 6 string + Bass or
double neck Bass + 7 string Baritone :-)
Old 10th March 2014
  #6
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My LOL was sincere :-)

And . . . . it was not necessarily about clean vs distortion.
More about Fender clean vs hifi clean.
Old 10th March 2014
  #7
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I am curious for who does like this more "theoretical" (Tuck Andress) approach.

"You can start with . . ."
I know, I've started 38 years ago ;-)
Old 10th March 2014
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theo S View Post
My LOL was sincere :-)

And . . . . it was not necessarily about clean vs distortion.
More about Fender clean vs hifi clean.
We're fine.

In this demo there is a full range sound of a (clean!) strat. through a cabinet simulator that'd work for both situations.

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Old 10th March 2014
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theo S View Post
My LOL was sincere :-)

And . . . . it was not necessarily about clean vs distortion.
More about Fender clean vs hifi clean.
Hiwatt Clean To Fender Clean with Reverb & Variable Drive Boost.

Reeves Amplification Space Cowboy

Reeves Space Cowboy 50

Port City/ Reeves OS 2X12

Stock VP's or

EVM12L & Fane Medusa 150-C
for extended range coverage.
Old 10th March 2014
  #10
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I am not curious for guitar amplifiers, nor for dealing with situations.
The clean guitar in the demo is picky strat narrowband sound in my ears.
Nice when people like it. I don't.

I am curious for people who have experience with using pro audio components (like fe Aphex Compellor, consumer to pro converters, hifi-di, etc.)

The discussion/culture mismatch is telling! When Tuck approached Aphex for equipment, he was told by them not to use their stuff for his plans.
Later on he became world famous with it.

When in 2004 I bought Schertlers for amplifying my stratocaster, I had almost to fight it in the shop. (I'm not famous, yet ;-) )
Old 10th March 2014
  #11
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Take a look at the DAV Electronics Control Room Guitar Interface.

2 channel FET & Tube with TMB control with inserts for other outboard
FX rigs.
Old 10th March 2014
  #12
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Thnx FFTT, I know DAV.
Since it's called 'guitar' interface, I am not interested.
(As far as my search for hifi guitar sound goes. I also play a lot distorted and of course the DAV need to be tested soon!)

I DO like the DAV BG mic amps!
Old 10th March 2014
  #13
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So my thread is not about a 'full range guitar solution" (to handle a broad spectrum of guitar sounds), but about 'full range guitar sound'.
Old 10th March 2014
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theo S View Post
So my thread is not about a 'full range guitar solution" (to handle a broad spectrum of guitar sounds), but about 'full range guitar sound'.
??? I can't follow this thread at all.
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Old 10th March 2014
  #15
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I like the Allan Holdsworth anekdote about culture mismatch:

In the late sixties he recorded his Vox AC30 in a studio. He set it loud for throaty sound.
Engineer (in white coat): "No, not so loud".
AH: "Yes, I want this sound".
Engineer:"No need, I will make you louder".
AH:"No, I need the sound of my amp!"
Engineer: "Yes I know, I will make you louder"
Old 10th March 2014
  #16
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YMMV. I too used a Schertler, to amplify a Gibson. It did its job and some sounds were really nice and usable.

BUT! I don't get if you're writing about full-range amps, guitars, or what else.

You say you find a Strat "narrow". I find Tuck's sound just "jazzy" and much more narrower. So what?
Old 10th March 2014
  #17
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Sounds like you need one of these: The World’s First Optical Analogue Guitar Cable Technology Launched
Old 10th March 2014
  #18
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Whatever you use for amplification - try the Lace Alumitones for pickups.. they're as close to a 'hi fi' pickup as I've tried.
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Old 10th March 2014
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edoardo View Post
You say you find a Strat "narrow". I find Tuck's sound just "jazzy" and much more narrower. So what?
No, I did not say that.
Yes, the strat in the demo.

In fact the humbucker in Tuck's guitar (Bartolini) sounds like a strat.
Old 10th March 2014
  #20
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@Scrubs
@Biggator

Thanks!
Old 10th March 2014
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edoardo View Post
BUT! I don't get if you're writing about full-range amps, guitars, or what else.
About the whole chain.
Old 10th March 2014
  #22
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Tube distortion, clipping and speakers pushed to break up were generally
not considered desirable features getting into the mid 60's

Up until that point in the Ozzie and Harriet world of goody two shoes wholesome music, the goal was simply loud and clear, with vocals always the priority. Guitar parts even getting into early Beatles and Stones were primarily clean bright tones that cut through a live mix.

They wanted American Built Fenders for that extra clean headroom, especially as they played larger and larger venues, micing only the vocals.

I mean Fender Dual Showman through 2X15 JBLs or EV kinda clean.
Hiwatt DR-103 Fane Clean
AC 100 Celestion AlNiCo Clean
Marshall Plexi Hairy Greenback Clean.

Generally if you want full range coverage on a guitar, you go to 15"s.
Same for Keyboards, even to 18"s

You're talking a much more clinical approach which in itself reduces the potential of the range of tones you can get.
Old 10th March 2014
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
You're talking a much more clinical approach which in itself reduces the potential of the range of tones you can get.
Yes. One tone.

I also really do appreciate your summary of live sound solutions (I did not know those details), but I mean pre FOH.
Old 10th March 2014
  #24
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So where are those guitarists, who equalize to repair sounds, not to 'make' sounds?
Old 10th March 2014
  #25
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https://www.tuckandpatti.com/tuck_tone.html

I'm assuming you've seen this. If you're after full-range guitar tone, it's here in nearly microscopic detail. No need to re-invent the wheel. Interesting that he writes, "...your guitar is a factor, too, but not as big a one as most people think, in my experience. By the time you really optimize the electronic part of it, you can pretty much blow a great guitar away with even a mediocre guitar."

For me, this approach works only only in specific situations: i.e. clean solo or duo performance & recording. Bigger situation than that, and the subtleties get lost and/or get in the way of other instrument frequencies.
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Old 10th March 2014
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
Playing alone you might want your guitar to "Be The Band" but once you start working with a band, a lot of the added low end just turns the mix to mud.
Sorry, I missed that. Yes, the 'orchestral' approach, which turns to mud when in a band.
Old 10th March 2014
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro View Post
https://www.tuckandpatti.com/tuck_tone.html

I'm assuming you've seen this. If you're after full-range guitar tone, it's here; no need to re-invent the wheel. Interesting that he writes, "...your guitar is a factor, too, but not as big a one as most people think, in my experience. By the time you really optimize the electronic part of it, you can pretty much blow a great guitar away with even a mediocre guitar."
Yes I've read it a hundred times past ten years.

Time to meet some equal minded.
Not to re-invent, but to fine tune.
Old 10th March 2014
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
Playing alone you might want your guitar to "Be The Band" but once you start working with
a band, a lot of the added low end just turns the mix to mud.
Seriously! Keep that mud outta there! That's where my bass lives haha
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Old 10th March 2014
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclerico12 View Post
Seriously! Keep that mud outta there! That's where my bass lives haha
I know that kind of 'hifi with a lot of ring' bass players!
Old 10th March 2014
  #30
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Please do report back if you have a chance to try out the DAV D/I Guitar Control Room Interface. Especially if you have a chance to test the Send Return functions.
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