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Advice / opinions about my pedal order
Old 12th March 2014 | Show parent
  #31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edoardo View Post
Really? I know so many people with ****ty SS amp and asian instrument that have like, all the kinds of "metal" stompboxes, wha's (just cause you need one), automatic whas, delays and whatever.
I have recently seen a mate who plays bass, he spent most of the show tweaking the feedback (or whatever) knob of his delay. Like, literally half the show on the ground. Plays a couple of notes and kneels down to tweak the sustain/feedback whatever on his pedalboard in order to produce his own weird delayed sound while everybody else's actually wondering what the matter is with his rig. dude get a synth.

Definitely a visual.
And of course, bottom line is that if a guy is using stuff to create interesting and memorable moments in a show, it's all good. That's certainly not the norm on the local level. The norm is the guy who shows up at a blues jam with a board the size of kitchen table and kicks in two overdrives, chorus, auto wha and octave effect on a Stormy Monday lead. I've seem this more often than I care to recall. One day, there'll be a guy who can make it work. I'm sure Hendrix could have. But to date, Hendrix hasn't stopped in.

I guess you can't really apply this to most of the larger shows, where pedals are mostly used as tools, not toys, to carefully reproduce studio-crafted sounds and effects that the audience expects to hear. If 20 are needed, hell yeah. But those guys usually have techs on board to make sure all 40 of those George L plugs are secure before each show.

But even at that level, that one guy I saw was just wanking an acre of pedals, to no effective result. Quality or wank; it's up to the player.
Old 13th March 2014
  #32
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Speaking as a centuries long player who uses a large pedalboard with different drives and whatnot. The tones are as different as night and day. You sort of have to know as much about pedals as you do playing. I would defy an inexperienced player to even hook mine up. Pedal order positions and interactions is a bit of a science.
If you just want to plug in and play, get one of the newer multi units with just some basic pedals like T-Rex makes. Anyone who spends too much time tweaking does not know their pedals well enough. You could spin my knobs and in a couple minutes I would have everything back to tone city.

When I build boards I often follow traditional notions on pedal placement as most are tried and true but that being said you really have to add one pedal at a time and see the interaction against other pedals as some will in theory be OK but you'll find some that do not play well next to each other as many different makes of pedals can sometimes cause problems on the playground.

I find effect pedals expand the horizon of the guitar to an infinite variation of tone and structures. This notion that pedals cover up bad playing is rather ridiculous you can tell when someone knows what they are doing. Using a lot of pedals is not for everyone and I do not recommend it to anyone. If you want to sound the same song after song be my guest. I find generic playing insidiously boring.

Pedals become a part of the instrument and are played as a unified thing. Reminds me of some player who picked up my guitar synth a couple years back and strummed some chords through a string patch and wondered why it was not tracking. Have you seen a lot of string players strum chords, I asked him.
Hooking up pedals can be a problem for the most advanced player and we all look for relevant advice now and then, would be great if some of it was relevant.

1) Tuner then wah or wah then tuner?
Do not put a buffer in front of the wah, does not really matter where you put a tuner, as long as everything is off, it is not relevant. I have a Radial ABY that has a tuner out jack.
2) Fuzz Factory first or with other distortion/fuzz?
First off probably does not matter because you would not use the two together, way too much gain wash out of any sense of articulation.
Never put a buffer in front of your fuzz.
3) If Zvex should go first would Big Muff be good more towards start also?
Again you should not b using these at the same time. Too much wash out gain. Fuzz is often a noise fest of buzz it does not need anything else. Overdrives can be used to intensify a higher gain pedal while still retaining articulation. Sometimes after a fuzz to tame it down a little. In general fuzz is not a preferred distortion. It sounds processed and overly compressed.
4) Not sure exactly where to put the MC-401.
Since you do not have an amp loop. Boost before a gain or fuzz will intensify the distortion and is a much better option than two fuzz units which is chaos. Of you want a solo volume boost more end of chain is where that is. Ideal is in the amp loop if your pedal and loop are compatible but you do not have a loop.
5) Not sure if I am going to actually use the NS-2, seems to ruin sustain etc.
I have at least 12 pedals on my board and no NR pedal. Usually noise is a result of other factors. Usually something weird with power supplies or ground loops. Using multiple wall sockets, guess what, ground loop. Bad cables, weird pedal interaction buffered, bypass too close to electrical fields. Guitar too close to electrical fields. A Strat, which I do dearly love can be a real noise inductor. It is normal for an uber gain dist pedal to generate some noise floor. In general I dislike Boss and most NR gate pedals will screw the guitars natural dynamics. best to avoid them if possible, if not get a quality unit. And use it just enough to lower the noise and keep it loose.
Old 18th March 2014 | Show parent
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkhorse View Post
I find effect pedals expand the horizon of the guitar to an infinite variation of tone and structures. This notion that pedals cover up bad playing is rather ridiculous you can tell when someone knows what they are doing. Using a lot of pedals is not for everyone and I do not recommend it to anyone. If you want to sound the same song after song be my guest. I find generic playing insidiously boring.
I agree that pedals expand the tonal possibilities of a guitar, but pedals galore or no pedals at all has nothing to do with generic playing. Two completely separate issues there.

Pass, Wes, Breau, Frisell, Burrell, Green, Hall, Christian, Django, etc... never used a pedal, and none play generic or boring.

Bluzers/Rockers like Clapton, Nugent, Buddy Guy, Page, Hendrix, Knopfler, Randy Rhodes and a host of others use either no pedals, or just a few very carefully chosen units. Not generic players at all. Or boring players.

Pedals have nothing at all to do with sounding boring and generic or not.
Old 18th March 2014 | Show parent
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Jeezez krist, man, learn to play the friggin' guitar!

The more you learn to play, the less you'll need the toys.

Even Hendrix only needed a half dozen or so pedals - what do you think you are, a music shop?
The level of logic of all that just simply isn't. There were no pedals in Hendrix time outside a couple wahs, a couple fuzz and the new Univibe near Jimi's death. The very few that did exist were hard to get and no two of them bore any sense of sounding the same as the manufacturing process in that era was really bad. The notion of quality parts or repeatablity was not yet a developed arena.

He actually had Roger Meyer create several pedals and modify others. We owe Jimi for starting the advent of pedal creation and development. They simply expand the horizons and capability of the guitar. They make many tones and sounds possible that cannot be rendered otherwise. A straight guitar into an amp is what it is and if you enjoy sounding the same all the time in every tune then have at it.

In simple terms think of it as having more crayons in your box to color with. Having just two does not make for a lot of color and range.

If you think you can render something like Bridge of Sighs, or Machine Gun without various pedals than you obviously imagine sounds that are not coming out of your amp.
By that logic there need be only one amp so everyone has the same sounding amp and why all the guitars??
Pedals are not for rank beginners to cover up bad playing or lack of technique they are rather advanced and how you use them, how you arrange them gets to be somewhat of a science. If you like the plug in and play thing then just do that or perhaps just play acoustic as it sounds the same all the time.
Old 18th March 2014
  #35
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Chet Atkins is credited with development of modulations.
Old 18th March 2014 | Show parent
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkhorse View Post
The level of logic of all that just simply isn't. There were no pedals in Hendrix time outside a couple wahs, a couple fuzz and the new Univibe near Jimi's death. The very few that did exist were hard to get and no two of them bore any sense of sounding the same as the manufacturing process in that era was really bad. The notion of quality parts or repeatablity was not yet a developed arena.

He actually had Roger Meyer create several pedals and modify others. We owe Jimi for starting the advent of pedal creation and development. They simply expand the horizons and capability of the guitar. They make many tones and sounds possible that cannot be rendered otherwise. A straight guitar into an amp is what it is and if you enjoy sounding the same all the time in every tune then have at it.

In simple terms think of it as having more crayons in your box to color with. Having just two does not make for a lot of color and range.

If you think you can render something like Bridge of Sighs, or Machine Gun without various pedals than you obviously imagine sounds that are not coming out of your amp.
By that logic there need be only one amp so everyone has the same sounding amp and why all the guitars??
Pedals are not for rank beginners to cover up bad playing or lack of technique they are rather advanced and how you use them, how you arrange them gets to be somewhat of a science. If you like the plug in and play thing then just do that or perhaps just play acoustic as it sounds the same all the time.

Yeah, so strat players or acoustic players sound all the same? Do clapton and Buddy Guy and SRV and Knopfler sound the same?
Do Big Bill Broonzy and I sound the same?

Had Jimi Hendrix recorded all of his stuff with a Gibson guitar inside a Vox amp, he would have still sounded like himself, though somewhat brighter.
I would still love his music. And I would still prefer a Fender sound.

I don't listen to him because of octaved fuzzes and wha whas. I listen to his music. First time I listened to him there was this ping pong thing going on which I just found annoying to have in my headphones, made it harder to follow the music. I don't dig the wha-wha either. I play hendrix without it. I wouldn't sound like Hendrix anyway. But guess what, the crowd does recognize the song anyway and I get compliments.

You know who sound the same? Nowadays guitar heroes and shredders. Damn, 40/50 years after Marshall, Mesa and stompboxes started to evolve, man they DO sound the same.

I understand putting that stuff together isn't easy at all. If I wanted to sound like PF or U2, I wouldn't know where to start.
But John is right, the sound comes from your fingers...

And... YES, I DID have to do with people in their 20s who kept buying pedals so the amp would squeal no matter how they put their tips on the board.
YES, I COULD TELL they didn't know what they were doing, but my point was that they have been practicing like that, so this way they could not hear the string buzzing anymore, they really thought it was a rig shortcoming.
Old 18th March 2014 | Show parent
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edoardo View Post
He was speaking from a merely electronic point of view.
Electronics do not have opinions like "too many", people do.
Old 18th March 2014 | Show parent
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nedorama View Post
No right or wrong order to hook them up. Experiment and move things around to hear what you like,
Exactly my thoughts. Don't ask. Experiment. Take time and hook this one up to that one, and then that one up to this one, just a couple at a time. Gradually add more and keep experimenting. What do YOU like the sound of? That's the "right" order for you. And maybe that will eventually involve 100 more pedals in the chain. Just keep experimenting, use your ears, use your feelings about what you like or dislike. No one else can decide that for you.
Old 18th March 2014 | Show parent
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edoardo View Post
That's harsh, but not ignorant at all.

I have to tell that the way you've introduced yourself leads to some prejudice... especially guys who have always been as much restrained as possible in using effects in order to sound as professional as possible.
That prejudice is myopic ignorance accompanied by unjustifiably inflated self-assessment.

Really, professionals sound just about any way imaginable, including sounding like, say, Elliott Sharp, Keiji Haino and of course J. Mascis.
Old 18th March 2014 | Show parent
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nedorama View Post
I guess we should also tell Paul McCartney's band that they're idiots, since both guitarists have 12+ pedals on their pedalboard…
Didn't you know that all of the random people posting on Gearslutz are the real professionals who can tell you exactly what you should and shouldn't sound like, should and shouldn't do, contra schlubs like those in Paul McCartney's band?



</sarcasm>
Old 18th March 2014 | Show parent
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro View Post
That said, I went to hear a very famous player recently (we all know him) who has about 25 pedals. He looked like he was killing roaches up there, but every darn thing he played sounded the same (except I heard a roto speaker pedal sound at one point). He also changed guitars about 15 times through the show, and the only time you could tell was when he went acoustic solo. Overkill, even on the big stage from a great player.
You know what though--that guy is a professional. "Everyone knows him". He's making a living with music. You paid to go see him. What he sounds like IS one thing that professionals sound like.

I'd bet anything that a lot of the people on Gearslutz who tell others what they need to do to be professionals, to sound professional, where their idea of "professional" is some very narrow idea of what can be done (and almost always more or less what they're doing themselves), aren't themselves professionals solely making their living with music.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edoardo View Post
I don't listen to him because of octaved fuzzes and wha whas. I listen to his music. First time I listened to him there was this ping pong thing going on which I just found annoying to have in my headphones, made it harder to follow the music. I don't dig the wha-wha either . . . You know who sound the same? Nowadays guitar heroes and shredders. Damn, 40/50 years after Marshall, Mesa and stompboxes started to evolve, man they DO sound the same.
You might not like some of that stuff, but those people sound like professionals because they are(/were) professionals.
Old 18th March 2014 | Show parent
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnalia Barcus View Post
You know what though--that guy is a professional. "Everyone knows him". He's making a living with music. You paid to go see him. What he sounds like IS one thing that professionals sound like.

I'd bet anything that a lot of the people on Gearslutz who tell others what they need to do to be professionals, to sound professional, where their idea of "professional" is some very narrow idea of what can be done (and almost always more or less what they're doing themselves), aren't themselves professionals solely making their living with music.
You might not like some of that stuff, but those people sound like professionals because they are(/were) professionals.
Didn't say Hendrix's mixes sound bad. Just said that were I going to play Hendrix, getting a ping pong and a wha would be the least of my concerns, personally.

Sounding professional, to a guitarist, means sounding as convincing with any (good) rig or guitar.
Old 18th March 2014 | Show parent
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edoardo View Post
Sounding professional, to a guitarist, means sounding as convincing with any (good) rig or guitar.
Sounding professional means sounding like someone who is making a living playing. Isn't that the goal (re being a professional)? It has nothing to do with "convincing" anyone of anything.

People who are making a living by playing guitar sound a HUGE range of ways, use a HUGE number of options when it comes to effects and amps and guitars and so on.

There's not just one way, not just a narrow range of ways, to sound professional.
Old 18th March 2014 | Show parent
  #44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnalia Barcus View Post
You know what though--that guy is a professional. "Everyone knows him". He's making a living with music. You paid to go see him. What he sounds like IS one thing that professionals sound like.

I'd bet anything that a lot of the people on Gearslutz who tell others what they need to do to be professionals, to sound professional, where their idea of "professional" is some very narrow idea of what can be done (and almost always more or less what they're doing themselves), aren't themselves professionals solely making their living with music.
You might not like some of that stuff, but those people sound like professionals because they are(/were) professionals.
Le's avoid the "what constitutes a professional" debate. That's been done to death with absolutely no general collective opinion, and it creates one pitfall after another.

I didn't pay to see him, and wouldn't have; although I think he's, technically, an excellent guitarist.
My only point was that all of his effects piled one on top the other created a generic tone that got very boring very fast. It filtered out any sense of individual character that might have been transferring from his fingers through the amp.

The fact that pro guitarists sound like a lot of things is so obvious, it needn't be stated. My beef is that you clearly stated that not using pedals leads to generic and boring playing; tone that "sounds the same song after song."

Sorry, but that's plain silly. Interesting playing has nothing to do with the use of pedals. And uninspired playing has nothing to do with a lack of pedals.
-Some players use pedals to enhance the music in a very artistic manner, and their playing is emotional and inspired.
-Some use no pedals and play emotionally and inspired
-Some pedestrian players use a lot of pedals
-Some pedestrian players use no pedals.

There are players who make their living in music (i.e. professionals?) in all above categories.
Old 18th March 2014 | Show parent
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro View Post
My beef is that you clearly stated that not using pedals leads to generic and boring playing
Um, what?
Old 19th March 2014 | Show parent
  #46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnalia Barcus View Post
Um, what?
All apologies. Wrong posting.
Old 19th March 2014 | Show parent
  #47
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I am still pondering the magic of a wrong post that contains a quote but anyway.

A basic fact of sonic reality is that pedals expand the horizons and sonic ability of the guitar. The majority of pedalboard users do not opt for over processed sounds but merely one or two pedals at a time changing them to alter the voicing of the guitar much less a pedal that offers modulation, delay or reverbs a straight plug in cannot hope to render. Having nothing is limiting to the amount of tone voicing changes you will be able to muster out of an amp. Levels of gain and some slight EQ changing if you have a multi channel amp. Sounding the same through the whole gig and a range of tunes is just very generic sounding and making no effort to at least try and sound like the album versions of tunes.
If there is one thing I dislike and would walk out on is a touring band that resorts to basic generic setups of amps and pretty much slacks through bad versions of their own tunes sounding the same.
Pedals are an inspiring arena of possibilities that countless artists have confirmed many times the pedal itself inspired their writing or a new tune that would otherwise not have come out. Does a Bass player need a envelope filter to emphasize the funk, maybe not but dammit it sounds damn cool. And we need the funk, gotta have that funk.
As a guitarist of more years than I care to recall, instead of gradually falling away from pedal use I just love the damn things and I have a huge array, like 4-5 different drives. But they are all just colors in the crayon box to make things interesting and change the shade. As anyone knows if you use all the colors everything turns black.
Just as good music has dynamics, groove, and feel, so should the use of pedals to enhance the possibilities of the guitar.
Amen, and pass the plate.
Old 20th March 2014
  #48
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Hello, I have a question regarding my Furman SPB-8C Pedal/Power Board, specifically the use of the 'in from pedals' / 'out to amp input' jacks; and, the 'send'/'return' jacks. I'm not currently using any of these. Would like input on whether I should be using the send/return jacks and where in the chain as well as if I should use the in from pedals and mono or stereo out to amp based on my pedals and use of Morley A/B switch described below

The manual mentions the following which I don't fully understand so please address where applicable:

'Layout pedals in desired order giving thought to issues such as keeping signal levels high to minimize hum/noise'.

I play about 5 different guitars with varying pickup configs so I don't want
pickups/guitar to be included in formulating advice. On the other hand, I thought it would be beneficial to explain my amp setup....

I'm using a '77 Traynor YGL-3 Mark III combo amp which does not have an effects loop. It has 2 channels which both have normal/high inputs, a treble boost switch, and volume, treble/mid/bass eq's. The 2nd channel also has reverb and tremolo/intensity controls. There is also a master volume control which affects both channels. I use the high inputs and treble boost on both channels. At the same place on the individual channel volume controls, the 2nd channel is louder (guesstimate of about 30%) than the 1st channel. When I'm not using any distortion, the 2nd channel sounds better (cleaner, brighter, etc) to my ears when I try and match their overall volume. The previous sentence is true when I'm using pedals as well as if I'm plugging my guitar straight into the amp. It also seems like when I use a pedal for distortion, it's significantly louder than clean volume. I've tried turning the level down on my distortion pedals or my guitar volume but then I don't like the distortion tone as much. For this reason, I'm using a Morley A/B switch and going from channel A to channel 1 on my amp when I'm playing a song which requires distortion, and going from channel B to channel 2 on my amp for songs without distortion. This presents a bit of a challenge when a song requires clean and distorted guitar, but that's not what my question is about.

I've attached a pic of my pedal board...it's not easy to see but I'm plugging my guitar into the tc polytune tuner, into the mxr distortion +, into my boss me-50 (I don't ever use the mxr and boss distortion at the same time), into the weeping demon wah (seems like the consensus is the wah should go before distortion so I'll play around with moving this after the tuner....wondering if I put it after the boss me-50 because of all the other effects and previously reading the wah should go after compression/delay/etc), into boss rc-2, into Morley A/B, and out to channel 1/2 as described before.

After my rambling probably a good idea to remind what advice I'm looking for....

Would like input on whether I should be using the send/return jacks and where in the chain, as well as if I should use the in from pedals and mono or stereo out to amp based on my pedals and use of Morley A/B switch described above.

Thanks in advance for the advice, and as I'm technically challenged I do not mind being treated as a complete novice.
Attached Thumbnails
Advice / opinions about my pedal order-20140319_135724.jpg  
Old 20th March 2014 | Show parent
  #49
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkhorse View Post
I am still pondering the magic of a wrong post that contains a quote but anyway.
yes. It was you who stated the opinion that playing without a bunch of pedals generates boring and generic sound.

No magic.

edit: I'm no way against pedals. To each their own. Just my personal view that I don't particularly want to "hear" a pedal. I prefer that it enhance an already inspired performance in a natural and unobtrusive manner. I don't see how pedals have anything at all to do with generating inspired and aesthetic performances. of course YMMV.
Old 20th March 2014 | Show parent
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkhorse View Post
A basic fact of sonic reality is that pedals expand the horizons and sonic ability of the guitar. The majority of pedalboard users do not opt for over processed sounds but merely one or two pedals at a time changing them to alter the voicing of the guitar much less a pedal that offers modulation, delay or reverbs a straight plug in cannot hope to render. Having nothing is limiting to the amount of tone voicing changes you will be able to muster out of an amp. Levels of gain and some slight EQ changing if you have a multi channel amp. Sounding the same through the whole gig and a range of tunes is just very generic sounding and making no effort to at least try and sound like the album versions of tunes.
If there is one thing I dislike and would walk out on is a touring band that resorts to basic generic setups of amps and pretty much slacks through bad versions of their own tunes sounding the same.
There's nothing wrong with someone wanting to use 500 pedals at the same time, and there's nothing wrong with someone wanting to just plug their guitar straight into an amplifier with no overdrive/distortion and with the EQ set flat, etc.. Heck, there's nothing wrong with someone just plugging their guitar directly into the board for that matter. There's nothing wrong with any option someone chooses.

Why don't we let people follow their own muses and do whatever works for them as an artist? Why do people always have to try to turn everything into the equivalent of picking a political party and positioning the other party (or parties) as the enemy?

Re "trying to sound just like the album", I'm not actually a fan of that re live performances (though I'd not imply that there's anything wrong with it, I'm just not personally a fan of it), but the album the person made could sound just like a guitar plugged straight into an amplifier with no overdrive/distortion and with the EQ set flat, etc. . . . because that's maybe what it was.

For your preferences (you like people to try to sound just like their albums live), you'd not want that guitarist to use any effects live, because then that wouldn't sound just like the album.
Old 20th March 2014
  #51
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Below is a photo of my pedaltrain pro. I have 12 FX pedals, but have some additional space, and some large pedals, so 17 isn't out of the question space wise. I have the One Control Iguana on it as well, that let's me choose 5 separate loops with one or more pedals in the loop. This makes changing FX much easier. But above that, if you bypass all pedals and turn all loops on, you can hear how much tone loss you get. IMO, a bypass loop pedal is essential when using more than a few pedals. I do have more pedals, but rotate them onto my two boards as opposed to having them all on one huge board.

Old 20th March 2014
  #52
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by flatuswalrus View Post

ZVex Vexter Series Fuzz Factory
Boss TU-3 Chromatic Tuner
Maxon AF-9 Auto Filter
Dunlop JC95 Wah
DigiTech Whammy V
Keeley 4 Knob Compressor
Boss NS-2 Noise Supressor
Electro-Harmonix Little Big Muff
Wampler Triple Wreck Distortion
MXR CAE MC-401 Boost/Line Driver
Flickinger Vicious Cricket Tremolo
Moogerfooger MF-103 Phaser
TC Electronic Corona Chorus
Electro-Harmonix Deluxe Memory Boy
Electro-Harmonix Micro Pog
TC Electronic Hall of Fame Reverb
TC Electronic Ditto Looper

Please note, I just have the Micro Pog running through the effects loop of the Memory Boy.
That many pedals you need one of these..


5 Loop True Bypass Pedal Kits :: Bigfoot Systems :: Road Rage Pro Gear :: DIY Guitar Pedal Kits

I bought a 7 loop one back when they were also selling completed ones.
Old 21st March 2014
  #53
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You know there are several basic types of pedals which are useful to various styles of playing. You may not need one of every type in your style and there is no reason to have them. No one really duplicates modulation pedals but ODs and gains can make a lot of sense depending on your range of technique.

You may not need an envelope filter with your style but some of us can use one. Having several drives might be overkill but having just one is limiting and some sound better stacked with others and so on.
When I stage my Trower tone I have on no more pedals and chain than he does.
Deja, Wahful fixed wah, wah and two stacked drives. Couldn't he get by with just one?? NO.
But If I want more of a Jeff Beck or fusion tone or even more Pagey stuff I switch my chain order completely as what sounds good for one does not work for another. Many times only a couple pedals might be on at one time, they are just there for sonic changes. I would like to have a preset switcher pedal but that is even more money to add.

So much of the cut down and opinion is simply not taking into account the range of styles some of us might be working around. I have drives for my Trower chain, different ones for Beck and different still for Pagey like tones. Not like I spend all my time playing other people's tunes and tones but some tones are rather epic and I like using them to invent new things.

Pedals are just a tool collection, one does not use every tool in the shop at one time but face it one hammer is not good for every use.
Old 21st March 2014
  #54
Gear Head
 

My suggestion would be to set aside an afternoon (possibly a day with that many). Think about the sounds you want to achieve, start with the most basic eg. Clean rhythm with reverb/delay, crunch rhythm, solo sound. Find which pedals you need to achieve to achieve your bread and butter sounds. Then start to add in your other stuff when you're happy with the basics. If you find the sounds you're going to use most of the time first and are happy with them it'll be a lot simpler to make a decision on the order of your chain. Once you've established a point of reference. You'll be able to decide how putting pedal x in position y effects your basic sounds for better or worse.
Old 21st March 2014
  #55
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That can work although the approach that I prefer is to go into the process without preconceptions and explore the sounds that you can make with the gear. Which sounds do you like and which do you not like? Hook A up to B, and then hook B up to A. Does it make a difference? What different sounds do you get when you do that? Which sounds do you like better? Then do the same thing when you add C. You can try just A and C, then just C and A. etc. When you get to three, if you liked A hooked up to B better, try C to A to B, then A to C to B, then A to B to C.

Experiment and let what your equipment can do guide the sorts of sounds you make with it, using your preferences as the arbiter.
Old 21st March 2014 | Show parent
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnalia Barcus View Post
That can work although the approach that I prefer is to go into the process without preconceptions and explore the sounds that you can make with the gear. Which sounds do you like and which do you not like? Hook A up to B, and then hook B up to A. Does it make a difference? What different sounds do you get when you do that? Which sounds do you like better? Then do the same thing when you add C. You can try just A and C, then just C and A. etc. When you get to three, if you liked A hooked up to B better, try C to A to B, then A to C to B, then A to B to C.

Experiment and let what your equipment can do guide the sorts of sounds you make with it, using your preferences as the arbiter.
That's a valid approach as well. There is no right or wrong answer it's down to what you like. As an individual and what works best for you. I find it's best to start with a good clean then take it from there, you can add fuzz/dirt/Octave pedals etc. all day long but you can't add clean.
Old 22nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #57
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro View Post
yes. It was you who stated the opinion that playing without a bunch of pedals generates boring and generic sound.

No magic.

edit: I'm no way against pedals. To each their own. Just my personal view that I don't particularly want to "hear" a pedal. I prefer that it enhance an already inspired performance in a natural and unobtrusive manner. I don't see how pedals have anything at all to do with generating inspired and aesthetic performances. of course YMMV.
So you were talking to me? Had no idea. Pedals for me after using them for many years through a million different types and makes merely become an extension of the sound itself. They inspire me to invent and write new things. Just about anyone dealing with them has often said some new pedal might inspire a new tune that otherwise they would have never brought it out.
Everyone should do what rings their cow bell.
Pedals are somewhat like Martial Arts, kung fu can be a beautiful thing to watch, when a master uses a weapon it becomes an extension of the form, and is also beautiful to watch.
Since all guitars are manifested from the guitar inherent capability to me they sound natural and organic to the overall sound. Some things just cannot be done without them. I think you misunderstand it is not about playing with a bunch of pedals, there are times when I have nothing on at all. Often I may just have a single drive or a compressor on just to enhance the sound. Which is what it is all about the tone. Yes I do consider the same basic tone, song after song rather boring, I think the audience does as well. Acoustic can be pretty and interesting but an electric is born for greater things. Why not take advantage of the options? I think some get the idea we have like a dozen pedals on and the sound is more synth like and over processed, believe me that is not my goal. Less is better, that is why I only use a couple, I just like to switch drive voicings and tones. A chorus and things like that can be quite beautiful and rich. A harmonizer merely allows multiple timbers to be rendered on one guitar.
Old 22nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #58
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro View Post

Definitely a visual.
And of course, bottom line is that if a guy is using stuff to create interesting and memorable moments in a show, it's all good. That's certainly not the norm on the local level. The norm is the guy who shows up at a blues jam with a board the size of kitchen table and kicks in two overdrives, chorus, auto wha and octave effect on a Stormy Monday lead. I've seem this more often than I care to recall. One day, there'll be a guy who can make it work. I'm sure Hendrix could have. But to date, Hendrix hasn't stopped in.

I guess you can't really apply this to most of the larger shows, where pedals are mostly used as tools, not toys, to carefully reproduce studio-crafted sounds and effects that the audience expects to hear. If 20 are needed, hell yeah. But those guys usually have techs on board to make sure all 40 of those George L plugs are secure before each show.

But even at that level, that one guy I saw was just wanking an acre of pedals, to no effective result. Quality or wank; it's up to the player.
Some of us have a clue and are not teenagers with no skills. Less is more is always something I adhere to. I only have different drives and such for differing tones as I play heavy fusion not just one type of music, when I play in a band focused on a type of music I adjust my board to that end. If a cat has groove and feel I so no reason why anything can not used with taste even in blues. I think doing a cover of something might should have your own twist to it as one can listen to the record at home.
One drive pedal is not good for everything.
I seldom have more than a couple pedals on as they are just to alter the tone and enhance. As for "SS" not all amps are created equal. Not everything is a cheap stale sounding piece of Walmart crap. Helps if you know what you are doing. I think after 40 years of playing I have learned a thing or two.
For Gods sake John McLaughlin has not used a guitar amp in years and uses several pedals for tones and delays. You guys can do what you wish but really stop slamming players who could probably run circles around you. Pedals are not an indication a person cannot play, I would defy a dufus neophyte to even figure out how to hook them up properly. You might laugh at a guy with a board while I view a player straight into an amp as having the same basic tone all the time and not so much a professional player. I love Robert Cray but man the same damn guitar sound all the time it gets boring would an overdive now and then hurt just to bring up the lead voicing. Been my experience with an audience they get bored easy and certain tones turn heads and get people interested.
As always do what rings the cow bell and inspires you to play. I get a lot of inspiration from pedals without them I would probably not play much.
Old 29th March 2014 | Show parent
  #59
Here for the gear
 

Hi, still hoping someone can give some advice or point me to another resource..fyi since my post, I've acquired a EH DeHumBugger but haven't introduced it into my pedal chain yet.

If the furman manual gives suggestions based on using two amps, should I view two amps any differently than the two channels on my combo amp or are they essentially the same thing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gear advocate View Post

Hello, I have a question regarding my Furman SPB-8C Pedal/Power Board, specifically the use of the 'in from pedals' / 'out to amp input' jacks; and, the 'send'/'return' jacks. I'm not currently using any of these. Would like input on whether I should be using the send/return jacks and where in the chain as well as if I should use the in from pedals and mono or stereo out to amp based on my pedals and use of Morley A/B switch described below

The manual mentions the following which I don't fully understand so please address where applicable:

'Layout pedals in desired order giving thought to issues such as keeping signal levels high to minimize hum/noise'.

I play about 5 different guitars with varying pickup configs

I'm using a '77 Traynor YGL-3 Mark III combo amp which does not have an effects loop. It has 2 channels which both have normal/high inputs, a treble boost switch, and volume, treble/mid/bass eq's. The 2nd channel also has reverb and tremolo/intensity controls. There is also a master volume control which affects both
Old 2nd April 2014 | Show parent
  #60
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edoardo View Post
Yeah, so strat players or acoustic players sound all the same? Do clapton and Buddy Guy and SRV and Knopfler sound the same?
Do Big Bill Broonzy and I sound the same?

Had Jimi Hendrix recorded all of his stuff with a Gibson guitar inside a Vox amp, he would have still sounded like himself, though somewhat brighter.
I would still love his music. And I would still prefer a Fender sound.

I don't listen to him because of octaved fuzzes and wha whas. I listen to his music. First time I listened to him there was this ping pong thing going on which I just found annoying to have in my headphones, made it harder to follow the music. I don't dig the wha-wha either. I play hendrix without it. I wouldn't sound like Hendrix anyway. But guess what, the crowd does recognize the song anyway and I get compliments.

You know who sound the same? Nowadays guitar heroes and shredders. Damn, 40/50 years after Marshall, Mesa and stompboxes started to evolve, man they DO sound the same.

I understand putting that stuff together isn't easy at all. If I wanted to sound like PF or U2, I wouldn't know where to start.
But John is right, the sound comes from your fingers...

And... YES, I DID have to do with people in their 20s who kept buying pedals so the amp would squeal no matter how they put their tips on the board.
YES, I COULD TELL they didn't know what they were doing, but my point was that they have been practicing like that, so this way they could not hear the string buzzing anymore, they really thought it was a rig shortcoming.

I no longer get what your point is. Just about everyone uses pedals to some degree even acoustic players so I really have no idea what your beef or point actually is.
Of course people do not sound the same and that is just a known issue with ones hands and technique. A Gibson into a Vox does not sound like a Strat into a Fender nor would Jimi sound the same. A ludicrous comparison to anything.

If you do not like to use pedals fine, so what, I find it excruciatingly boring. I do not use pedals to sound like other people so much so that I am a copy mimic of their music, that is not my thing.

I dare say I am doing things I have never heard anyone else do. Like a harmonizer into an envelope filter or when I brought my guitar synth rig into the rehearsal room running stereo twins w my then Marshall half stack in the middle. Massive human choir tracking under my heavier gain Marshall, no pedals really. Whatever man. I am not sure what the point is with the anti-pedlal chaps. Their insults and issues are just not a part of anything in my area of the forest, there is no tap dance struggling to turn things on and off, no huge chain of pedals creating an overprocessed non guitar sound. Although some old Trower is in your face on that one as well.
I have a massive guitar rig with even some rack mount units. Thing is most of the time only a couple things are on, it's just colors and cool tones. Cool tones are sort of what I play for.
Pedals ring the cow bell for me and knowing how to use them is the whole key.
They are sonic enhancements and extensions for the guitar, like anything else takes some talent and inventiveness to use them without sounding like a teenager who cannot play running his guitar through a dozen pedals. Just not where most of us are at.

Examine a master like Jeff Beck, just would not be the same without the choice pedals he uses and his Klon. I was just watching him play Over The Rainbow using the Klon which merely enhanced his tone, touch and technique.
As always one should do what suits them and makes them want to play. If you dislike pedals then fine but stop insulting the rest of us enjoy your Buddy Holly Strat. Jimi started the whole pedal thing so let's not pretend his more iconic tunes would have been the same not using the rig he did.
Playing like 40 years this year I have sort of been there and done that, suffered through having no gear and plugging straight into amps of all types. I remember when I got my hands on my first pedal, some off brand fuzz tone. I was in heaven, oh that's how they get those tones. Just damn fun man, damn fun, and that is why I play because I dig the different tones.
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