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Is it just me, or are Ibanez guitars garbage? Modular Synthesizers
Old 8th March 2014
  #91
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Excuse me? Set the record straight?

You mean enforce your opinion.

Please stop this.


Floyds have serious problems, as any unbiased guitar tech knows.

Whether you choose to live with them is up to you.l Please don't inflict your opinions on those of us who know otherwise.

Whatever floats YOUR boat is great for YOU - that doesn't mean it's good for the rest of the world.

As I've said innumerable times, there is nothing a Floyd does that I can't do with a slightly modified stock Strat vibrato.

Even with those mods it still requires proper attention when changing strings for the bar to work properly - just like a Floyd/Kramer/whatever.

It's not rocket science, it's just basic ( REALLY basic) mechanics.

And I'd like to state that I'm not attacking anyone. I'm just making a statement about the pure mechanics of the issue.
John, you're one of the most blunt and opinionated people here. I've seen you say things are junk or crap, etc. It's all your opinion but to you your opinion is gospel for some reason. For you to tell someone to stop anything is a joke. I never said the FR doesn't have it's quirks but it's nothing what HV is making it out to be. I also said I use other bridges and not everyone has to or should use a FR. If anything is being said between HV and I, we can sort it out. It's not your concern.
Old 8th March 2014
  #92
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Vibrato View Post
This:

That's quite an insult to a professional luthier. I stated multiple times that I've been doing this for decades, and I have no problems setting up a Floyd, but I've had many customers over the years who couldn't get a handle on how the thing works. I also listed some of the Floyd's quirks specifically, and stated that I'd never want to use one myself.

You responded by basically saying that I'm too stupid to use a Floyd. That's not very nice.

Another thing - When responding to someone's post, don't start yours with "BS..." That's just rude and inflammatory. There are more diplomatic ways of presenting your case.

Tantrum? Jesus Christ dude. I've reviewed my posts here, and there's nothing here like that. The only reason I went on was because you so flippantly claimed that Floyds are easy and that I just don't know what I'm doing - I was responding to that.


I was making a joke. You were being rude. That's the difference.
You're far too sensitive in all this. I countered everything you said that I didn't agree with. Some things were legit but you exaggerate beyond belief. Especially that FR became obsolete after the invention of the locking tuner and the complexity of setting a FR up. You keep touting your skills and I accept that. I also have experience and have been building for 29 years. My experience is a FR isn't difficult to setup and maintain, yet that is dismissed and only your experience is to be accepted. If this is a board of experiences and opinions, accept that and move on. I get it that most here think a FR is a "pita" and that's fine. Different strokes. I don't want a war here with anyone so if anything I said offended you I apologize.
Old 8th March 2014
  #93
Lives for gear
 
Hot Vibrato's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkknight91 View Post
You're far too sensitive in all this. I countered everything you said that I didn't agree with. Some things were legit but you exaggerate beyond belief. Especially that FR became obsolete after the invention of the locking tuner and the complexity of setting a FR up.
The only egregious exaggeration I made was that I want to kick Floyd Rose in the nuts (I really wouldn't do that)

Regarding the complexity of setting up and maintaining a Floyd, my position all along has been that some players get it and some don't, but it's too complicated to be practical for the average player. I think we can agree with this at least?

Regarding the other alleged exaggeration, I said this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Vibrato View Post
If you want to sound like Eddie, Vai, or Satriani, you need a Floyd. For everyone else, Floyds became obsolete the moment locking tuners and roller nuts were invented.
I stand behind this. A Wilkinson or American standard trem equipped with locking tuners and a roller nut will stay in tune remarkably well, to the point where it's unnecessary for anyone but the most radical of tremolo users to have to endure the hassle of the Floyd's locking mechanisms. Just my opinion, but I don't feel it's the least bit of an exaggeration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkknight91 View Post
You keep touting your skills and I accept that. I also have experience and have been building for 29 years. My experience is a FR isn't difficult to setup and maintain, yet that is dismissed and only your experience is to be accepted.
I never dismissed your skill or experience. You dismissed my skills and experience. I have no doubt that you know how to set up and tune a Floyd, and I never said anything to indicate otherwise. You are the one who accused me of not knowing how to work with one, ignoring the fact that I mentioned several times that I work with these things every day - remember?

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkknight91 View Post
If this is a board of experiences and opinions, accept that and move on.
Done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkknight91 View Post
...I don't want a war here with anyone so if anything I said offended you I apologize.
Apology accepted.
Old 9th March 2014
  #94
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkknight91 View Post
Apples and oranges. One is a locking tremolo and the other is not. You can use a Wilkinson with locking tuners and properly cut nut and it will be pretty stable. Doing Van Halen and Vai dive bombs will eventually knock it out of tune, I don't care what anyone says. Van Halen is the best I've ever heard at keeping a non-locking trem in tune and even he said it would still go out on him. For moderate use, it would be fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Vibrato View Post
Yes - Way more practical. With locking tuners and a roller nut (or a properly cut graphite nut) a guitar equipped with the VS100 or the Fender American Standard bridge will stay in tune every bit as well as a Floyd, without the frustration associated with the locking parts.

If you want to sound like Eddie, Vai, or Satriani, you need a Floyd. For everyone else, Floyds became obsolete the moment locking tuners and roller nuts were invented.
Thank you all. I am building a Warmoth frankencaster that'll feature a VS100, locking tuners, graphite nut and saddles.

I do no guitar hero, just some vibing, though I want "both" bending and diving. vibing in only one direction feels weird.
Old 9th March 2014
  #95
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jimbridgman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edoardo View Post
Thank you all. I am building a Warmoth frankencaster that'll feature a VS100, locking tuners, graphite nut and saddles.

I do no guitar hero, just some vibing, though I want "both" bending and diving. vibing in only one direction feels weird.
A VS100 with locking tuners on a warmoth should be pretty bad azz, especially for a Frankencaster. Keep us posted on your progress.

I am about to build a custom warmoth in a couple months, but I will be putting a tail piece on the one I make out of their body and neck, with parts I get elsewhere.

Jim
Old 9th March 2014
  #96
Gear Head
 

I've had three 1570's and all three were perfect.

IMHO it sounds like you don't know what you're doing.
Old 9th March 2014
  #97
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkknight91 View Post
John, you're one of the most blunt and opinionated people here.
Pot/kettle.

Sure I'm blunt. Opinionated? Well that all depends on your point of view. There's a fallacious meme floating around the interwebz that all "opinions" have equal weight. This is not true. Some people's viewpoints are based on facts and experience, others are just based on what somebody happens to think, like, or just happened to buy. Or even just something they read somewhere at a site with a somewhat less than unbiased point of view. Oddly enough those people frequently think that whatever they like is the solution to everybody's problems and I'm sorry but it's just not true.

HV is a professional luthier. I spent a good part of my life as a touring guitar tech and service tech for a number of major music stores. Both of us have a lot of real, factual experience to support our viewpoints. Both of believe that FR type vibrato units are a royal PITA at the best of times. We didn't pull that point of view out of our rear ends. I don't know about HV, but I thought the Floyd was pretty cool when it came out - before I had to deal with a bunch of them and before real world experience changed me from being an early adopter of all the latest gizmos to somebody who looks at new devices with a healthy degree of skepticism, and an analytical viewpoint based on sound engineering principles of what the drawbacks might be.

You have to understand - I was trained as a service tech. Service techs are trained to look at devices from the POV of what makes them fail.

People who are not service techs don't look at things that way, so they're always looking at the "features" not the weaknesses. (This is also a crucial difference between service techs and design engineers, although I won't go into that can of worms at this time.)

I'm always open to new ideas and to being proven wrong; when that happens I modify my position. But I need real proof, or at the very least the word of somebody I know personally who I KNOW has the knowledge, experience, and expertise to have a solid, factual point of view.


But enough on this digression. The OP has a guitar with a cheap Floyd knockoff on it that seriously gets in his way. He should get rid of it and get something he can get along with. He shouldn't judge all Ibanez instruments by his experience. He should probably avoid guitars with FR and Kahler style vibratos in the future unless he wants to be a dive bomber pilot, which I don't think is the case.

All that could have been summed up in the first few posts if the FR fan club hadn't hijacked the thread.
Old 9th March 2014
  #98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edoardo View Post
Thank you all. I am building a Warmoth frankencaster that'll feature a VS100, locking tuners, graphite nut and saddles.

I do no guitar hero, just some vibing, though I want "both" bending and diving. vibing in only one direction feels weird.
Let me give you a little tip concerning strat style vibrato units and dive bombing - very often the limiting factor in how low you can bomb with this style vibrato is the amount of room in the pocket before the vibrato block hits wood. If you mount the block without springs and push the bar down till the block hits wood in the pocket, mark that line with a pencil or sharpie, then remove the block and undercut that part of the pocket with a Dremel to give the block more room you can get it so you can bomb all the way down until the strings go slack against the pickups. Since it's an undercut the body still looks the same from the outside. As I've said several times before, you don't need a Floyd to do extreme dive bombing.
Old 9th March 2014
  #99
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Let me give you a little tip concerning strat style vibrato units and dive bombing - very often the limiting factor in how low you can bomb with this style vibrato is the amount of room in the pocket before the vibrato block hits wood. If you mount the block without springs and push the bar down till the block hits wood in the pocket, mark that line with a pencil or sharpie, then remove the block and undercut that part of the pocket with a Dremel to give the block more room you can get it so you can bomb all the way down until the strings go slack against the pickups. Since it's an undercut the body still looks the same from the outside. As I've said several times before, you don't need a Floyd to do extreme dive bombing.
Thanks a lot John, precious!
Old 9th March 2014
  #100
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbridgman View Post
A VS100 with locking tuners on a warmoth should be pretty bad azz, especially for a Frankencaster. Keep us posted on your progress.

I am about to build a custom warmoth in a couple months, but I will be putting a tail piece on the one I make out of their body and neck, with parts I get elsewhere.

Jim
yeah

thank you guitar gearslutz! - someone asked for pics
Old 9th March 2014
  #101
Ok...I'm 50 years old,post 26 is the ****!,it's cool.

I used an Ibanez RS 135 [1984? it's on the reverse of the Guitar Player JULY 84 issue COVER PAGE...but not the lefty model]

I ONLY owned that umm "strat type" guitar for year or 2,before stripping the 1/2" thick laquer/color,and reshaping the weird "pointy"body bits[?] to a fender strat shape-dumbest thing,as that coating was making what was lovingly called"Basswood"[softest electric guitar body wood ever-thankfully there is a kind of ply].

Prior to May/June 2011 it was the only electric guitar I owned...yes I'm tight,but Left Handed guitars during my Oz wide touring days,were.. get this..Bolt on Les Paul "type" guitars[one which got smashed to splinters..one night]that if you DID NOT buy a seymour Duncan et al pick up,it wasn't even worth looking at,let alone using as a spare[thanks JK].

Ibanez..excellent electric guitars...and the lefty models are cool to.
Bob
Old 9th March 2014
  #102
Lives for gear
 
eve69's Avatar
 

Ibanez is the ugliest cheapest looking prefab merde of all guitar manufacturers, but I love my TK999HT.
Old 9th March 2014
  #103
Quote:
Originally Posted by eve69 View Post
Ibanez is the ugliest cheapest looking prefab merde of all guitar manufacturers, but I love my TK999HT.
sad but true...BUTTI'm a penny pincher,and distortion pedals make me,well they bring on my suicidal depression...2203/cable/whateva guitar sonny!
Old 9th March 2014
  #104
Gear Guru
 
FFTT's Avatar
 

The OP probably should have gone for a much less complicated guitar.

His issues could be pilot error, the neck adjustment, incorrect Floyd Set-Up,
or at worst a crooked bridge mount.

Keep the Ibanez as a backup, but I think its pretty clear he's ready for a better instrument. With that comes time & patience and saving for a better quality
instrument, even if it takes a year to play as many guitars as you can and put
a deposit down on the guitar that speaks to you. A guitar that rings clear acoustically all the way up the neck and balances right on the strap.
Old 9th March 2014
  #105
Gear Guru
 
kafka's Avatar
I haven't read this whole thread, and I know it got pretty OT at times. However, Ibanez does and has always made some really good guitars. Not everything in their catalog is all that good, but there are plenty of really solid Ibanez' out there that I wouldn't hesitate to consider them.
Old 9th March 2014
  #106
Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
The OP probably should have gone for a much less complicated guitar.

His issues could be pilot error, the neck adjustment, incorrect Floyd Set-Up,
or at worst a crooked bridge mount.

Keep the Ibanez as a backup, but I think its pretty clear he's ready for a better instrument. With that comes time & patience and saving for a better quality
instrument, even if it takes a year to play as many guitars as you can and put
a deposit down on the guitar that speaks to you. A guitar that rings clear acoustically all the way up the neck and balances right on the strap.
You mate,are spot on with "incorrect Floyd Set-Up" i'll bet 2c anyway-titewad bob[pardon the gender assumption...i saw your gig photo the udder nite...]
Old 9th March 2014
  #107
OK,I'm a harshie[hershey?]
To be fair to the OP,I'm a LEFTY,I've had a "right handed" Genuine german manufactured Floyd Rose "bridge"-It took 7 tungsten tip drill bit's to make the Correct Sized hole for the "whammy,though I use the term"tremolo arm"regardless,I bought the "Floyd" in Perth Australia,when my "first band that had the commitment to LEAVE Adelaide...it was early 1985,and after totally"making a life choice"TO NEVER try playing a "righty strat type guitar again"!

I play live through a Marshall,and I believe a good live/any player,should use his/her Volume control[potentiometer]ON THE GUITAR,as much or more than any nice pedals,and I NEED to control "IT"with my pinky-pulling the Volume Up or On/LOUDER,by pulling IT Up..at THE rear-anticlockwise.

Right Handed Guitars strung LEFT,I cannot play,or especially LIVE,the pots/tone,volumes are Under My Wrist,so I'm always turning the bastards OFF,or down..no control...where IMNSHO the electric control of a guitar STARTS at the Volume"pot" on the instrument.

I was fortunate,in that the Perth guitar store[remember this is Australia-a LOT of things like color TV,were years later than the US]that sold me the $400 Floyd Rose original FINE TUNER model,happened to have a L/HANDED Nut!!!

Those repair dudes been playing,ummu a TAD maybe,it is ABSOLUTELY imperative,to LOOSEN all the strings[no not take them off-Loosen...a Lot,before adjusting the "string height"with the allen wrenches[?-i know not,wether they're allen screws,as I Only have the genuine Original Floyd Rose-FLAT HEAD screws,straight into the body.

THOSE SCREWS-especially with licenced Floyds,get BAD nicks,from adjusting without loosening strings=NEVER STAY IN TUNE,even Without"the bar"as whilst simply picking up the guitar,and maybe only resting your palm,Will Knock It Out Of Tune....ta da excellent Japanese lic. Floyd "Strat type"electric guitars,if one knows the deal.. now we do!
Bob

Pssst,PS yadda, I had buddies who loved their lic. Floyd Ibanez Electric guitars,but they didn't seem to last as long as my Original German made,German Steel Floyd,remember,until 2011,not including a couple "bolt on necked" LP copies-years-decade or more Before niceish Epiphone LP's I ONLY owned,used played a LEFT HANDED black,but "stripped to bare fingernail GOUGING Basswood" Ibanez RS135 Heavily modded-"tilted"JB humbucker,OBL noisless-very low output single coil LIKE sound,1 vol. 1984 R/H Original F.T. Floyd bridge,L/H nut-shipped that way,bought in 1985 Perth WA...odd I like it better than my..?
Old 10th March 2014
  #108
Lives for gear
 
Bob Ross's Avatar
 

I'm not gonna tell you anything that hasn't already been said a billion times already in this thread: OP has a lemon, Ibanez makes some very nice guitars and some clunkers, I've owned both. Wouldn't hesitate to buy another...but would check it out thoroughly before putting down my cash.
Old 11th March 2014
  #109
Lives for gear
 

I also had a lemon Ibanez (it was a nice one too). So.... try before you buy. I played one of their original guitars from the lawsuit era and it was awesome.
Old 11th March 2014
  #110
Gear Guru
 
FFTT's Avatar
 

I think its funny when people see my AF105NT full hollow body, they're thinking jazz box, when the guitar just flat out rocks even with stock Ibanez '58 Humbuckers.
Old 11th March 2014
  #111
Lives for gear
 

Has anyone here ever owned or experienced a circa 1985 Ibanez Roadstar ? I don't remember the model name/number, but I bought a used one once a long time ago. It had a blazing fast ultra-thin neck, humbucker pickups, slick black finish, beautifully contoured body, nut locking via allenwrench, wonky tremolo, and the most lame (easily stripped) fine tuners ever. The floating bridge was a total nightmare, and it gave 3 guitar repair technicians I brought it to nervous breakdowns.

Not making any sweeping statements about Ibanez overall though, maybe just more of a floating thought. heh
Old 11th March 2014
  #112
Lives for gear
 

A student of mine has the 335'ish guitar, pretty decent for what it is.
Old 11th March 2014
  #113
Gear Guru
 
FFTT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagelove View Post
A student of mine has the 335'ish guitar, pretty decent for what it is.
The AS103 was nicer than the Epi Casinos, but for some reason the full hollow body AF105NT
was more resistant to unwanted feedback than the semi-hollow AS103.
Old 11th March 2014
  #114
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
Has anyone here ever owned or experienced a circa 1985 Ibanez Roadstar ? I don't remember the model name/number, but I bought a used one once a long time ago. It had a blazing fast ultra-thin neck, humbucker pickups, slick black finish, beautifully contoured body, nut locking via allenwrench, wonky tremolo, and the most lame (easily stripped) fine tuners ever. The floating bridge was a total nightmare, and it gave 3 guitar repair technicians I brought it to nervous breakdowns.

Not making any sweeping statements about Ibanez overall though, maybe just more of a floating thought. heh
Floating seems to be the way to be liked,so go with it,tho as all know,Ed had his bridge on a coin...yeah umm my post "type thing"(post 101 and 107 mostly?)were both the "sort of first" of the "mid eighties" Roadstar'zz models/my model is RS 135 no.-cause I have the mag with Edward on the cover-back o that page is my model in all it's[ugliness??].

LUCKY for me,they-Ibanez,didn't bring out the "butter in the metal" locking trem Horr** models-Those FIRST"locking trem" ONE'S-that you're experience left you scarred from[yes good neck-except the nut!etcetc]they didn't hit till 1986,in Oz,so I def. dodged a "ninja star" there,plus as per Then...no Lefties in Au/Oz/Straya,umm australia much,plus I was happy with my butchered germanic Floyded JB'd wonder stunt machine.
Bob
Old 11th March 2014
  #115
Gear Guru
 
FFTT's Avatar
 

Well you could always upgrade to a Floyd Rose Titanium Assembly

but I'd start with another guitar.

Titanium Tremolo System | Floyd Rose Titanium Tremolo System

Old 11th March 2014
  #116
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
Well you could always upgrade to a Floyd Rose Titanium Assembly

but I'd start with another guitar.

Titanium Tremolo System | Floyd Rose Titanium Tremolo System

At $1,285.00 I would get another guitar built.
Old 11th March 2014
  #117
Gear Guru
 
FFTT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edoardo View Post
At $1,285.00 I would get another guitar built.
For $1285.00 I'd just buy a nice USA Strat or Tele.
Old 12th March 2014
  #118
Here for the gear
 

bought a 25th anniversary s series $700 outta the box it was awesome, never had any issues with tuning or the "zero point trem" how ever after a year. the fret board has shrunk atleast a solid millimeter. stock pickups sound good. but the use of moist fretboard wood during construction has turned this guitar unplayable. my 200$ epiphone with a duncan distortion in the bridge plays, and sounds better.

my ibanez acoustic sounds like exactly what i bought a better than bottom rung acoustic. cost 3-400$ i dont remember its been years anyways sound is lack luster unplugged but awesome plugged in, no fret issues after 3-4 years, playability and action is middle of the road just like the price tag. biggest downfall, bright gloss finish just doesn't clean up like it used to. feels very matte or as if dust actually absorbed into the lacquer

good food for thought is that except artist models (the ones they use) all ibanez guitars are manufactured outside the US often the 100$ model is made by the same guy on the same machines as the 2k model just with different specifications. this is very common practice in the guitar business so you can feel scammed but such is life. i've come to accept either try befor you buy or just alert the retailer your ordering from that you might be a pain in the ass and want to return or exchange.
Old 12th March 2014
  #119
Gear Guru
 
FFTT's Avatar
 

It doesn't matter if you are shopping budget guitars or high end guitars, you have to play a bunch of guitars to find a really good one.

If you order a guitar sight unseen, the only alternative you really have is
dealing with a store with a very strong return policy.

You might eat the cost of shipping depending on their policy.

Hopefully the OP will be more selective and know what to look for in his next guitar purchase.

You could trade it in as a deposit on another better instrument, but you'll
get hammered on trade value.

Might as well keep it for an emergency backup.
Old 12th March 2014
  #120
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Hot Vibrato's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
It doesn't matter if you are shopping budget guitars or high end guitars, you have to play a bunch of guitars to find a really good one.
Not to say that a lemon doesn't get produced every now and then, but most new guitars (even imports) these days can be set up to play really well. However, most guitars come from the factory in an awful state of adjustment, and therefore need a professional setup. Many of these guitars actually never get adjusted very well, and wind up living out their existence in a horrible state of adjustment. I contend that many of these "lemons" are actually not lemons at all, but simply have never been properly gone over by a luthier.

The first thing anyone should do when they buy a guitar, is to take it to a skilled luthier or repairman for a setup and evaluation. A skilled professional can make any good guitar play great, and if it is a lemon, an independent professional opinion can help you get proper warranty service, or a warranty replacement if necessary. Several times over the course of my career as a guitar repairman, I've advocated for a customer to help them obtain a warranty replacement for a defective guitar when the dealer stubbornly insisted that it was fine.

There's no reason to get stuck with a lemon of a guitar. If the frets are unlevel, or if the truss rod won't adjust, if the neck angle is wrong, or whatever, it's covered under warranty, and should be replaced or repaired at the manufacturer's expense. The dealer will duck and weave to avoid replacing an instrument under warranty - not because it costs them anything, but simply because it's a hassle to box it up and ship it, etc. Again, this is where an independent professional opinion will help your case. If the customer has a respected professional in their corner insisting that the guitar is defective, it's easier for them at that point to just give in and replace the guitar.
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