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Alternative to older Deluxe Reverbs
Old 30th November 2013
  #31
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelshaf View Post
Does anybody know of any decent alternatives to older Deluxe Reverbs? Something with a similar wattage and tube complement? Music Man? Some other old model that's handwired? I'm wondering if there are any good steals out there that are just as good. Everybody seems to be swiping up all the old Fenders and sellers are boosting their prices.
New Fenders aren't as bad as some people make out. And you can always rip out the circuit board and get an aftermarket kit to the '60s specs.

A Musicman is nothing like a Deluxe - even the lower power ones have a lot more power, plus the front end is solid state, not tube.
Old 11th December 2013
  #32
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lame pseudonym's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
I've actually come to prefer the natural Ampeg breakup to Fender breakup, which usually requires more gain to get any where near the same response.
There's a picture out there of Greg Sage recording the "Over The Edge" album with an Ampeg Portaflex -- I think the B12XT. I wouldn't recommend anyone go out and look for one of those but that was one of the best (crunchiest) sounding records ever.
Old 18th December 2013
  #33
Gear Nut
 

Consider trying a Custom Sounds Ethos Overdrive Amp. Just plug it into a decent 1x12 speaker cab -- because it's a pedal with a built in solid state amp. (Ethos has a good return policy so if you don't like it you can send it back in 7 days).

Seriously, you can go from Fender Black Face clean (insert a delay or reverb to taste) to overdrive well beyond what a DR can do on its own. The amp feature, at 30 watts RMS, makes this pedal about as loud as a Deluxe Reverb, but way more versatile.

There are several good demo videos on YouTube so you can see and hear it in action. Worth checking out.
Old 19th December 2013
  #34
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FFTT's Avatar
 

The Bad Cat Classic Deluxe R is one of the better new DR circuits.
Old 19th December 2013
  #35
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doorknocker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
New Fenders aren't as bad as some people make out. And you can always rip out the circuit board and get an aftermarket kit to the '60s specs.
I agree. Speakers and tubes make a hell of a difference too. I almost can't believe how much better my Blues Jr. sounds after changing the first 12AX7 tube to an NOS RCA, which was purely an experiment with a leftover tube among several RCAs I bought cheaply for my UA 6176.

Even my rather expensive reissue '57 Champ came with horrific Groove tubes. Changing the tubes made a huge difference too.

It's really important to analyze the individual components when dealing with guitar amps. 'Vintage' is such a misused term.

In the past I also made the mistake of not burning in new amps enough and selling them again because I didn't like the sound. Because of that I actually prefer to buy used amps and guitars whenever possible.
Old 19th December 2013
  #36
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FFTT's Avatar
 

One of the most frustrating things about trying to help our friends overseas is seeing so many are paying top dollar for stuff that would be considered novice to entry level gear over here in the states.

When you get into the better Professional Grade gear the price differences are brutal!

Here a Matchless Lightening Reverb 1X12 combo runs about $2400.00 New.

Matchless - Lightning Reverb 112 Combo Black - Matchless Amplifier, Matchless Amplifiers, Matchless Amp, Matchless Amps, Matchless Lightning, Matchless Lightning Reverb

In UK, the exact same amp runs more like $3600.00

2199 pounds sterling

Matchless New Lower Price Lightning 1x12 Combo with Reverb

Basically you guys are getting hosed across the board.
Old 22nd December 2013
  #37
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Agreed. But the fancy boutique amp market is tiny, so you get no economies of scale helping with the shipping, etc., plus we have 20% sales tax (yes you DID read that right) plus customs duty/import tax to deal with once it gets this end.

Fortunately we do have our own boutique-y builders whose prices are marginally less eye-watering.

A sort of almost-boutique still manufacturer like Cornford can still turn out a decent amp for a fair price.

Even with a 20% government mark-up included.

Well ****! Just popped over to the Cornford site and they appear to have gone broke mid 2013. How sad is that.

Last edited by ivansc; 22nd December 2013 at 09:30 AM.. Reason: New news
Old 22nd December 2013
  #38
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There's a like new Fargen Blackbird 20 watt 1x12 combo on Ebay right now for $1550 BIN, which is a steal for that amp.
Old 22nd December 2013
  #39
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FFTT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Porto View Post
There's a like new Fargen Blackbird 20 watt 1x12 combo on Ebay right now for $1550 BIN, which is a steal for that amp.
Fargen is top quality great stuff!
Old 25th December 2013
  #40
Lives for gear
Cost to performance the late SF DRs are killer deals. Less than $1000 for ptp wiring, vintage iron and signal caps. Reliable and easy to work on. I recently compared one to my 68 with NOS tubes I've owned for a decade and there's not a cat's hair of difference in sound with the same quality tubes...
Old 25th December 2013
  #41
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I think the current 65 Deluxe RI and the recent 68 Silverface Custom Deluxe Reverb are actually really good amps!!

With a few small mods by a good tech, some experimenting with tubes/biasing and choosing a good speaker to taste, these can come very close to the vintage goodies!

’68 Custom Deluxe Reverb® | Vintage Modified Amps Series | Fender®

But IF you find an original drip edge silverface deluxe reverb in good condition, these still are way more affordable than an original BF Deluxe and will retain their price better than the reissue.

If you can afford a ToneKing, out of many boutique amps I found those to be quite "magical" sometimes, too, reminding me of great old amps I played.
Old 25th December 2013
  #42
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FFTT's Avatar
 

Over in EU, I agree if you want Fender voiced, New and much better build than today's Fender, Tone King is a great choice. Hybrid-hand assembled with Mil Spec PCB and very well done. Rock solid builds.
Old 9th January 2014
  #43
Gear Head
 

Well, I did an about face and bought a '67 Super Reverb. I just couldn't pass it up at $775. I'll have a few years of enjoying the tone until my back tells me to sell it.
Old 9th January 2014
  #44
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FFTT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shelshaf View Post
Well, I did an about face and bought a '67 Super Reverb. I just couldn't pass it up at $775. I'll have a few years of enjoying the tone until my back tells me to sell it.
Fantastic! Smart Buy! Good Job!

PIX Please!

If the weight is too much, you can get a head cab from mojotone.

Take it easy on the speakers if they are vintage correct OEM drivers.
Old 9th January 2014
  #45
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
Fantastic! Smart Buy! Good Job!

PIX Please!

If the weight is too much, you can get a head cab from mojotone.

Take it easy on the speakers if they are vintage correct OEM drivers.
Actually, I can't figure out how to post pics here???
Old 9th January 2014
  #46
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FFTT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shelshaf View Post
Actually, I can't figure out how to post pics here???
Upload photos, preferably page size to imageshack, photobucket, any of those,
then you'll get a link urlsomething.jpg

on either side adjacent to the link [No Spaces]

type [img]urlblahbah.jpg[/img]


The photo should post if the link is correct.

use Preview Post here to check before you submit.
Old 9th January 2014
  #47
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
Fantastic! Smart Buy! Good Job!

PIX Please!

If the weight is too much, you can get a head cab from mojotone.

Take it easy on the speakers if they are vintage correct OEM drivers.
Thanks for the referral to Mojotone. I'd never heard of them.

The '67 speakers are actually modern Jensen P10r. Probably why I got it so cheap.

Will post pics soon.
Old 9th January 2014
  #48
Gear Guru
 
FFTT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shelshaf View Post
Thanks for the referral to Mojotone. I'd never heard of them.

The '67 speakers are actually modern Jensen P10r. Probably why I got it so cheap.

Will post pics soon.
Depending on what you're going for, clarity, punch, early or late breakup, depth,
jangle, AlNiCo Compression and sparkle.

Weber 10F150 OEM Fender Ceramic.
Weber 10A125A Low Efficiency AlNiCo (30% volume cut)
Fane AXA10
Celestion Gold 10's
EVM 10-M
Old 9th January 2014
  #49
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
Depending on what you're going for, clarity, punch, early or late breakup, depth,
jangle, AlNiCo Compression and sparkle.

Weber 10F150 OEM Fender Ceramic.
Weber 10A125A Low Efficiency AlNiCo (30% volume cut)
Fane AXA10
Celestion Gold 10's
EVM 10-M
I would like to try the low-efficiency alnicos in the future. Actually, I'd like to experiment with ways to get the volume down, or rather hit the sweet spot breakup at lower volume. I had originally considered pulling two speakers as several folks on the Internet suggest, but it's controversial whether that's safe for the old iron OT and even the alnicos. Many suggest pulling the V1 tube also, but again, I'm not 100% sure doing so wouldn't strain some element of this valuable old amp. Also, since I'm considering using an A-B box to use this as a 2-channel amp, pulling a tube wouldn't be an option. So many mod choices, but I'm in no hurry and plan on approaching them with caution.
Old 10th January 2014
  #50
Gear Guru
 
FFTT's Avatar
 

The Weber 10A125A small magnet, AlNiCo series are very popular for just that reason. Figure they are about 95+/- dB SPL where a more modern speaker may be 100-103 dB SPL, easy to see you're going to have a clear volume drop while
also having Schweet AlNiCo Compression on the top end.

You can mix and match speakers without screwing with the amp,
as long as you get the impedance right on the combined load.

Lots of guys blend the 10A125A with 10F150's in an X pattern.

Weber also offers a clone of the original CTS low efficiency AlNiCos if I remember correctly.
Talk to AJ and see what he recommends.
Old 10th January 2014
  #51
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelshaf View Post
I had originally considered pulling two speakers as several folks on the Internet suggest, but it's controversial whether that's safe for the old iron OT and even the alnicos. Many suggest pulling the V1 tube also, but again, I'm not 100% sure doing so wouldn't strain some element of this valuable old amp. Also, since I'm considering using an A-B box to use this as a 2-channel amp, pulling a tube wouldn't be an option. So many mod choices, but I'm in no hurry and plan on approaching them with caution.
<redacted to comply with Gearslutz politeness guidelines> (paraphase - In my opinion those would not be very bright things to do and would be destructive to the amp.) And pulling a tube from preamp1 would not make it any quieter. Don't do it.

If you really want less power try some yellowjackets, otherwise sell it and get a Deluxe Reverb.

And don't mod the amp.
Old 10th January 2014
  #52
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allphourus's Avatar
 

Some think for a great dual channel switching type set up, a Deluxe Reverb for a solo Channel and a Super Reverb for Rhythm can't be beat.
Old 10th January 2014
  #53
Gear Guru
 
FFTT's Avatar
 

Of course it can be beat with a Vibrolux Reverb and a Super :-)

Even though I would have chosen different terminology, I understand John's
frustration a bit.

You just got the amp and it is so much better than what you had before.

Live with it for a while, get to know what it can do before you start changing it.
Old 11th January 2014
  #54
Gear Head
 

Attempting to post pics. [IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG]
I'm not sure what happened to this image. I'll try to get a better shot of the caps with a different camera later.
[/IMG]
Old 11th January 2014
  #55
Gear Head
 

Here is a better shot of the caps.
[IMG][/IMG]
Old 11th January 2014
  #56
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
And pulling a tube from preamp1 would not make it any quieter. Don't do it.
If anything, wouldn't pulling that tube slightly raise the voltage on all the other tubes, giving more headroom and volume?
Old 11th January 2014
  #57
Gear Guru
 
FFTT's Avatar
 

This is why you insist on detailed photos of everything when looking at a vintage
amp..or an amp claiming to be vintage.

The person who replaced those transformers drilling extra holes should have
his ass kicked. Non original, correct replacement, transformers is one thing, making irreversible mods like that has basically killed any possible collector value and forces you to just turn this into a workhorse amp.

The reason you insist on detailed information before sale is so there are no surprises like this.

You'll be able to get it right, but if the seller misrepresented the info in any manner, I'd be all over him.
Old 11th January 2014
  #58
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
This is why you insist on detailed photos of everything when looking at a vintage
amp..or an amp claiming to be vintage.

The person who replaced those transformers drilling extra holes should have
his ass kicked. Non original, correct replacement, transformers is one thing, making irreversible mods like that has basically killed any possible collector value and forces you to just turn this into a workhorse amp.

The reason you insist on detailed information before sale is so there are no surprises like this.

You'll be able to get it right, but if the seller misrepresented the info in any manner, I'd be all over him.
I'm sure there are several mods like that that I didn't notice before. Some average Joe like me basically just wants an amp that sounds as good as another Super he heard somewhere else, and doesn't know all the myriad details that go into getting that original sound, not to mention any minor items that affect the collectors value. Actually I don't care as much about collectors value. I just want a good sounding amp. However, now that you point out the holes drilled for different transformer size, I've noticed a couple of other things. There's a hole in the back of the chassis (previous master volume or mid boost mod that was undone?). Also, what in the world is that 1/4" jack next to the choke for???
Old 11th January 2014
  #59
Gear Guru
 
FFTT's Avatar
 

I have no idea!

I feel really bad for you, even though none of this is my fault.

It upsets me to see someone just flat out butcher the amp's original integrity to such extremes.

If you got this on eBay, I'd file a claim.

If you got it from a store, I'd get my money back and hunt down a better one.
Old 11th January 2014
  #60
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
I have no idea!

I feel really bad for you, even though none of this is my fault.

It upsets me to see someone just flat out butcher the amp's original integrity to such extremes.

If you got this on eBay, I'd file a claim.

If you got it from a store, I'd get my money back and hunt down a better one.
I wouldn't win a claim. He didn't misrepresent anything tangible. It'll be fine though. I just need to know what I'm dealing with. I'll get it to working and sounding good eventually. It'll probably just be a money hole for a while.
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