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65 Amps London Pro 1x12 Combo Review
Old 20th July 2014
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
From numerous earlier reviews, I would take a clean used Reinhardt 18 or Storm over a 65 Amp.
Interesting, what were people saying in those reviews?
Old 20th July 2014
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LobCity View Post
Interesting, what were people saying in those reviews?
Bob Reinhardt had numerous stellar reviews for outstanding quality and sound, with customers like Mark Knopfler,( Storm 33) but closed up shop a few years ago and went back into designing race cars.

Fortunately any tech worth their salt can keep one of his amps purring for decades. A really good buy if you come across one.

Just reading through your comments again and really it seems you've got small block Marshall well covered with your RSA 23, so maybe you should think about something in the 30-50 watt range for improved clean headroom.

Matchless DC 30 or Club 40, Reeves Custom 30 or Custom Jimmy 50.
Bad Cat Black Cat 30R or refurbish a clean 72 or earlier,
Vibrolux Reverb.

My Bad Cat Hot Cat 100R is now 11 years old and remains trouble free.

Watch Thegearpage.net Emporium for all kinds of goodies used, many in
bedroom clean condition.
Old 20th July 2014
  #33
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Arichlsss's Avatar
/13 rsa 23 is the my fav 18 watt Marshall amp. Fred offers great advice and support
Old 20th July 2014
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arichlsss View Post
/13 rsa 23 is the my fav 18 watt Marshall amp. Fred offers great advice and support
Right before I found my Bad Cat, I was drooling bad for a RSA 33 with Reverb, but they were discontinued for some reason.

The more Fender like /13 37's had an issue with RF noise.
I imagine that issue has been solved by now.
Old 21st July 2014
  #35
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
Bob Reinhardt had numerous stellar reviews for outstanding quality and sound, with customers like Mark Knopfler,( Storm 33) but closed up shop a few years ago and went back into designing race cars.

Fortunately any tech worth their salt can keep one of his amps purring for decades. A really good buy if you come across one.

Just reading through your comments again and really it seems you've got small block Marshall well covered with your RSA 23, so maybe you should think about something in the 30-50 watt range for improved clean headroom.

Matchless DC 30 or Club 40, Reeves Custom 30 or Custom Jimmy 50.
Bad Cat Black Cat 30R or refurbish a clean 72 or earlier,
Vibrolux Reverb.

My Bad Cat Hot Cat 100R is now 11 years old and remains trouble free.

Watch Thegearpage.net Emporium for all kinds of goodies used, many in
bedroom clean condition.
I thought you meant that you'd heard unimpressive reviews of 65 amps.
Old 21st July 2014
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LobCity View Post
I thought you meant that you'd heard unimpressive reviews of 65 amps.
I don't remember unimpressive reviews of the early 65's

Guess they got too big in the later years and couldn't keep up.
Old 22nd July 2014
  #37
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
I don't remember unimpressive reviews of the early 65's

Guess they got too big in the later years and couldn't keep up.
Those amps have dropped off in some way?
Old 22nd July 2014
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LobCity View Post
Those amps have dropped off in some way?
There are over 100 amp builders competing for the market today.

The cream rises to the top while others fall to the wayside.

65 Amps were hot like 6 years ago
Old 22nd July 2014
  #39
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
There are over 100 amp builders competing for the market today.

The cream rises to the top while others fall to the wayside.

65 Amps were hot like 6 years ago
Interesting way to look at it. On the other hand, you've got nothing but praise for Bad Cat and those amps haven't been talked about much (except by you seemingly) for going on 10 years. Are you saying Bad Cat has sank to the bottom as other better builders and amps have risen? And Reeves, they were never talked about much, so what does that say about them?

I have only played one 65 (the Tupelo), and it was alright, not bad, but not something I wanted to own. I'm not arguing for 65 one way or the other, I guess I disagree with your reasoning though, even if the conclusion may be correct.

Another way of looking at it is there's so many good builders that eventually some good amps are going to fall under the radar of a lot of people.
Old 22nd July 2014
  #40
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The point I was trying to make is that most of the attention goes to the newest
offerings, but that doesn't mean the well established brands are any less popular.

Just read through the pages here. Very few up and coming musicians can afford $2500-$5000.00 for a professional touring/recording rig.

Many are looking for best cheapest, bedroom amps, low volume recording, etc.

Even many of the new groups out there touring are using rental gear.

Bad Cat, Matchless, Friedman, /13, Soldano have very firmly established themselves in the custom build arena for quality & reliability.
65 Amps has been around along time too, but they aren't the newest media darling.

One surefire way for a custom builder to fall from grace is when they start cutting corners or when they can't keep up with demand, or when demand dies down and they haven't established themselves strong enough to survive this gauntlet of choices.

Some still offer the highest quality but deliberately choose to stay small.
They don't want big company headaches. Magic Amps, Gries, Emery Sound
for example.

The new guys are trying to fight their way through all of this if they can survive, like Red Plate & BC Audio.

The other issue is that big box retailers are reluctant to carry the more expensive amps because the greater majority of their customers can't afford them. Or... the builder has decided to go the direct sales route to keep prices
competitive.

It truly is dog eat dog for ANY builder.

You'd be surprised how many are doing just fine, because they played it smart
or learned from their mistakes.
Old 24th July 2014
  #41
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Arichlsss's Avatar
Ive got a very early model Badcat Blackcat that is unbelievable. My favorite Voxish amp by far.
Old 24th July 2014
  #42
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arichlsss View Post
Ive got a very early model Badcat Blackcat that is unbelievable. My favorite Voxish amp by far.
Cool! What other voxy amps have you tried?
Old 24th July 2014
  #43
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arichlsss View Post
Ive got a very early model Badcat Blackcat that is unbelievable. My favorite Voxish amp by far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
The point I was trying to make is that most of the attention goes to the newest
offerings, but that doesn't mean the well established brands are any less popular.

Just read through the pages here. Very few up and coming musicians can afford $2500-$5000.00 for a professional touring/recording rig.

Many are looking for best cheapest, bedroom amps, low volume recording, etc.

Even many of the new groups out there touring are using rental gear.

Bad Cat, Matchless, Friedman, /13, Soldano have very firmly established themselves in the custom build arena for quality & reliability.
65 Amps has been around along time too, but they aren't the newest media darling.

One surefire way for a custom builder to fall from grace is when they start cutting corners or when they can't keep up with demand, or when demand dies down and they haven't established themselves strong enough to survive this gauntlet of choices.

Some still offer the highest quality but deliberately choose to stay small.
They don't want big company headaches. Magic Amps, Gries, Emery Sound
for example.

The new guys are trying to fight their way through all of this if they can survive, like Red Plate & BC Audio.

The other issue is that big box retailers are reluctant to carry the more expensive amps because the greater majority of their customers can't afford them. Or... the builder has decided to go the direct sales route to keep prices
competitive.

It truly is dog eat dog for ANY builder.

You'd be surprised how many are doing just fine, because they played it smart
or learned from their mistakes.
I had a lead on a Tone Cat but it fell through . . . 4xEL84 clean channel + 2xEL34 dirty channel - switchable tube or solid state rectifier. I wish I would have bought this when they were still in production.
Old 24th July 2014
  #44
Gear Guru
 
FFTT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LobCity View Post
I had a lead on a Tone Cat but it fell through . . . 4xEL84 clean channel + 2xEL34 dirty channel - switchable tube or solid state rectifier. I wish I would have bought this when they were still in production.
The cool thing about Bad Cat is the Custom Shop will still build you any model
you want on a custom order.

Also, they will fully refurbish any pre-2010 for normal refurb costs usually less than $300.00 and then extend a lifetime warranty on that unit.

How many companies offer that kind of support?

Tone Cat was a super configuration.

The only reason the original owner sold me my 2003 Hot Cat 100R Custom Shop, one of a kind build was he lived up 3 flights of stairs in N.Y. and hauling 69 pounds (97 pounds in the flight case), was killing him.

He had over $4000.00 invested.

$750.00 just for factory mods on top of original price of $3400.00
Old 24th July 2014
  #45
Gear Guru
 
FFTT's Avatar
 

If you come across one, the Magic Amps Brit MKII TB or TB86 is about as accurate to the original in tone as any of them.

The new Bad Cat Black Cat 15R is a great amp too.

/13 9/15 is another worth looking at.

Same goes for a Matchless Lightening Reverb.

Add $250.00 for each UK Celestion Blue to any of them.
Old 25th July 2014
  #46
Gear Guru
 
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If you're thinking 18 watt Marshall Inspired, but true 2 channel.

This new custom Hendy amp sure sounds killer!

Hendyamps Vintage
Old 25th July 2014
  #47
Gear Nut
 
Infrablu's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
The point I was trying to make is that most of the attention goes to the newest
offerings, but that doesn't mean the well established brands are any less popular.

Just read through the pages here. Very few up and coming musicians can afford $2500-$5000.00 for a professional touring/recording rig.

Many are looking for best cheapest, bedroom amps, low volume recording, etc.

Even many of the new groups out there touring are using rental gear.

Bad Cat, Matchless, Friedman, /13, Soldano have very firmly established themselves in the custom build arena for quality & reliability.
65 Amps has been around along time too, but they aren't the newest media darling.

One surefire way for a custom builder to fall from grace is when they start cutting corners or when they can't keep up with demand, or when demand dies down and they haven't established themselves strong enough to survive this gauntlet of choices.

Some still offer the highest quality but deliberately choose to stay small.
They don't want big company headaches. Magic Amps, Gries, Emery Sound
for example.

The new guys are trying to fight their way through all of this if they can survive, like Red Plate & BC Audio.

The other issue is that big box retailers are reluctant to carry the more expensive amps because the greater majority of their customers can't afford them. Or... the builder has decided to go the direct sales route to keep prices
competitive.

It truly is dog eat dog for ANY builder.

You'd be surprised how many are doing just fine, because they played it smart
or learned from their mistakes.
I'm amazed at your speculation about amp builders, their product lines and "what's hot & what's not" perspective..similar to the fashion industry.
Old 26th July 2014
  #48
Gear Guru
 
FFTT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infrablu View Post
I'm amazed at your speculation about amp builders, their product lines and "what's hot & what's not" perspective..similar to the fashion industry.
The same can be said for the latest band, latest album or the latest hit getting airplay.


Take a look at James Lugo's 2010 LA Amp Fest where 80 EIGHTY different amps
were tested.

Just the high gain selection alone showed how tough it is to stand out.

Old 30th July 2014
  #49
Gear Nut
 
Infrablu's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
The same can be said for the latest band, latest album or the latest hit getting airplay.


Take a look at James Lugo's 2010 LA Amp Fest where 80 EIGHTY different amps
were tested.

Just the high gain selection alone showed how tough it is to stand out.

By the way, great review from the OP clever and funny! Not sure how this can be related to the latest band, album or hit. It's an amp (tubes, speakers, elegant wiring and impeccable artistry) wrapped in a cabinet. I did view that shootout back then.. High Gain is a hard category to stand out in although I could pick and choose my preferences among those amps. Outside of the video I do believe that certain builders have a style (including aesthetics and tonality) that do standout (Carr, 65amps, Matchless) of which I've spent time with, gigged and owned. In some circles the "latest/greatest" boutique amp builder isn't a concern or analyzing where older builders "fall from grace" among the other statements pure conjecture imho
Old 30th July 2014
  #50
Gear Guru
 
FFTT's Avatar
 

I actually do know what I'm talking about.

You have to understand that some great companies start out small and everything is great until demand out-paces their ability to keep up as a small builder. Many even some big names went through growing pains when suddenly they had to hire on new help to cover that demand.

Time and time again, this has been the break point for many small builders.

Some stuck to their guns on quality control, but others were plagued with quality control issues on a larger scale because their employees did not have that same dedication and personal attention to detail as the original builder did when they were still trying to prove themselves.

Some were incredible techs, but lousy business men or simply became overwhelmed with the responsibilities of a growing business.

Any of you who have ever supervised other employees know damn well that one employee's lack of dedication can cause a nightmare
of problems.

Some had a rough time keeping going once that initial surge in demand waned. They either went back to basics or folded altogether.

If a company can survive all that and continue to deliver uncompromised quality at any scale, they might have a chance.

That is what I meant by The Cream Rises To The Top

Some extremely talented builders deliberately choose to stay small, knowing what can happen if quality slips.

Some survive much better than you think by word of mouth and a cult following.

A fall from grace may have been too strong in wording, but it can happen to any builder through no fault of their own.

Prospective buyers see amp flippers re-selling the amps they raved about 6 months earlier and wonder why.
They also see those amp flippers losing 30% of value trying to re-sell that amp in a totally saturated market.
That can have a devastating effect on that builders reputation as a good investment, through no fault of their own.

Dog eat dog is an understatement in this fickle market.
Old 30th July 2014
  #51
Gear Nut
 
Infrablu's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
I actually do know what I'm talking about.

You have to understand that some great companies start out small and everything is great until demand out-paces their ability to keep up as a small builder. Many even some big names went through growing pains when suddenly they had to hire on new help to cover that demand.

Time and time again, this has been the break point for many small builders.

Some stuck to their guns on quality control, but others were plagued with quality control issues on a larger scale because their employees did not have that same dedication and personal attention to detail as the original builder did when they were still trying to prove themselves.

Some were incredible techs, but lousy business men or simply became overwhelmed with the responsibilities of a growing business.

Any of you who have ever supervised other employees know damn well that one employee's lack of dedication can cause a nightmare
of problems.

Some had a rough time keeping going once that initial surge in demand waned. They either went back to basics or folded altogether.

If a company can survive all that and continue to deliver uncompromised quality at any scale, they might have a chance.

That is what I meant by The Cream Rises To The Top

Some extremely talented builders deliberately choose to stay small, knowing what can happen if quality slips.

Some survive much better than you think by word of mouth and a cult following.

A fall from grace may have been too strong in wording, but it can happen to any builder through no fault of their own.

Prospective buyers see amp flippers re-selling the amps they raved about 6 months earlier and wonder why.
They also see those amp flippers losing 30% of value trying to re-sell that amp in a totally saturated market.
That can have a devastating effect on that builders reputation as a good investment, through no fault of their own.

Dog eat dog is an understatement in this fickle market.
Noted..thanks for the perspective
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