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Fender v. Gibson - list your preference and why
Old 12th February 2013
  #121
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Strange Leaf's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitecat View Post
I think it's rare that any serious musician would use another artist's model as their own main instrument.
Well, there's a lot of serious musicians who for example use Ibanez JEM so I guess you are just wrong.

Anyway, all I was saying is that Fender offers scalloped necks while Gibson does not. Trying to contribute to the thread instead of discussing what is not interesting.
Old 12th February 2013
  #122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Leaf View Post
Well, there's a lot of serious musicians who for example use Ibanez JEM so I guess you are just wrong.

Anyway, all I was saying is that Fender offers scalloped necks while Gibson does not. Trying to contribute to the thread instead of discussing what is not interesting.
Yes, and I'm discussing back offering my own opinion, pointing out that they only offer two models with scalloped necks and thus a slightly narrow choice for anyone who wants that feature. (That's how forums work, we're all allowed to talk!)

I don't know or have ever seen anyone who uses a JEM, personally, but I'm sure they're out there. I guess things might be different in the world of seventy notes per second and pointy guitars... it's not one I wade in very often.

I've never seen anyone use an "artist" model live though from either Fender or Gibson that wasn't their own (saw David Gilmour once using a prototype of his Black Strat).

(NB - "Rare" =/= "non-existant.")
Old 12th February 2013
  #123
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Strange Leaf's Avatar
 

I haven't seen that either... but I'm not sure what is has to do with anything. This thread was about Fender vs Gibson and scalloped necks was one of the differences. Even if they just make 1 neck every 10 years and nobody saw anyone play it.
Old 12th February 2013
  #124
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Tone Laborer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Leaf View Post
I know several players who use scalloped necks. Myself I haven't even tried it. But do you honestly think Fender would produce something that no one wanted to buy?
My point was that they are very, VERY rare. Honest. I wasn't denying they exist.

Have you SEEN players using them at gigs? I haven't. All I'm saying.

I'd like to try one out sometime, though speed metal isn't my interest.
Old 13th February 2013
  #125
Gear Nut
 
qvplite's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewA View Post
They are 2 completely different animals!

To me, here are the main differences:
  1. Scale Length: this really affects how the instruments feel and sound. More tension on a Fender than a Gibson.
  2. Fretboard Radius: affects the feel, as well as how low the action can be. Vintage Fenders have a much more rounded fingerboard than Gibsons
  3. Fret Size: Affects playability. Fenders typically have smaller frets than Gibsons.
  4. Electronics: 2 humbuckers and 3 way switch vs. 3 single coils and 5 way switch. This is the most obvious difference between a Strat and a Les Paul.
  5. Construction: Fenders usually have bolt on necks, alder bodies and sometimes maple fretboards whereas a Les Paul will have a set neck, mahogany body with a maple cap and a rosewood fretboard.

All these elements contribute the both instruments unique sound. A longer scale, bolt on neck guitar made of alder with single coil pickups will sound completely different that a shorter scale, set neck guitar with humbuckers!

I'm not in either camp totally depends on what type of sound your going for. I actually prefer guitars that have elements of each design.
Awesome response, man. Thx!
Old 13th February 2013
  #126
Gear Head
 
DrewA's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by qvplite View Post
Awesome response, man. Thx!
Glad to contribute! Sometimes players get caught up in which design or guitar is "better", when really they're just different.

It will be good to see a write up on why they're different and why you might choose one style over the other.

And definitely point us to your blog when it's up!
Old 14th February 2013
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitecat View Post
I think it's rare that any serious musician would use another artist's model as their own main instrument.
I've seen a couple of people over the years that have used the Les Paul.
Old 14th February 2013
  #128
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumq View Post
I've seen a couple of people over the years that have used the Les Paul.
I think you know what I meant.

Especially since there are so many variants of the LP out there now - and how many of those models did Lester himself actually play?
Old 14th February 2013
  #129
Gear Addict
 

My favorite guitar tone of all time. A Les Paul into a Super Reverb. Clean.


59th St. Bridge Song/I Wonder Who - Mike Bloomfield and Al Kooper (Live) - HQ - YouTube
Old 14th February 2013
  #130
Gear Maniac
 
Joe Cole's Avatar
 

I started playing on a Les Paul.

In the 35 years since, I have added many types of guitars, but the only two I have added which stayed along with the Gibson are a Strat and a Tele.

My observations of playing live and in the studio over the years:
-I find it harder to get original sounds with Humbuckers.
-In a mix, single coils and humbuckers are great compliments.
-the scale length and bolt on neck of the Fenders lead to more percussive sounds, but sustain less. The Tele sustains more because of it's fixed bridge vs the tremolo on the Strat.
-Fenders feel like tools in your hands, Gibsons feel more like artwork. There are pros and cons in either camp.
-my Gibson has a skinny neck with low action which is great for rock chords and solo'ing, but make it difficult for complex chording.
-my Fenders have better string spacing for chord work. You can approximate jazzier sounds with the Fenders, but when I think jazz guitar, I hear Wes Montgomery, and hat is the sound of a Gibson hollowbody, easier to ape with a Gibson solidbody then a Fender.


It is all a matter of using the right tool to allow YOU to get the desired result.


That said, everyone saying that a Les Paul is a popular guitar in jazz are smearing the facts. It can work, and some players make it work, but it is not the shortest route to the destination, just as even though Ed Bickert played a Tele, it too is not the shortest route to a jazz tone.
Old 15th February 2013
  #131
Gear Maniac
If you force me to choose just one I would have to go with a 2-humbucker Les Paul over a Strat with 3 vintage class single coils. You just can't do some things with the latter, and for some you can theoretically do I can't because I'm neither Blackmore nor Gilmour.

I prefer vintage Japanese LPs over most Gibson, though.
Old 15th February 2013
  #132
Gear Nut
 
vito's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnypete View Post
but you wont really find Les Pauls in blues, funk, R&B, (country?)

Old 17th February 2013
  #133
Jorma Kaukonen (Jefferson Airplane/Hot Tuna) used to have a doubleneck that was 1/2 Gibson SG and 1/2 Fender Stratocaster.
Old 17th February 2013
  #134
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitecat View Post
I've never seen anyone use an "artist" model live though from either Fender or Gibson that wasn't their own (saw David Gilmour once using a prototype of his Black Strat).
Looks like Pat Smear of the Foo Fighters is playing a Jeff Tweedy sig. SG here (at last year's Reading festival):

Old 17th February 2013
  #135
Quote:
Originally Posted by indravayu View Post
Looks like Pat Smear of the Foo Fighters is playing a Jeff Tweedy sig. SG here (at last year's Reading festival):

Any more examples?
Old 19th February 2013
  #136
Gear Maniac
 
Joe Cole's Avatar
 

Sure. Same band, Dave Grohl uses a Trini Lopez Epiphone.
Old 19th February 2013
  #137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
Sure. Same band, Dave Grohl uses a Trini Lopez Epiphone.
But that's when the snake starts eating its tail, because you can actually buy a 'Dave Grohl Trini Lopez' model. He's now using what amounts to his own signature of a signature guitar. I suppose he did start out on the Trini Lopez, but then it gets weird.

Gibson Custom Shop Proudly Introduces the Dave Grohl Inspired By DG-335
Old 19th February 2013
  #138
Gear Maniac
 
Joe Cole's Avatar
 

Whitecat, I know, but you asked and that was the one on the to of my fingers.

That said....Gibson Les Paul.... that's a good one, no?

It's a matter of degree
Old 19th February 2013
  #139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
Whitecat, I know, but you asked and that was the one on the to of my fingers.

That said....Gibson Les Paul.... that's a good one, no?

It's a matter of degree
I already told someone else the Les Paul doesn't count as an 'artist model.' heh
If someone says "I play a Fender David Gilmour Strat' then you know exactly which guitar they are talking about. If someone says "I play a Gibson 'Les Paul' model Les Paul... well... which one?

My point still stands - the examples are few and far between (and so far seem to be confined to one band for whatever reason)

Not saying that it's a bad thing, just not terribly common.
Old 22nd February 2013
  #140
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Joe Cole's Avatar
 

I guess who wants to hitch themselves to someone else's star.

Although I have seen pics of John Mayer with a Buddy Guy strat as well as a SRV strat....
Old 22nd February 2013
  #141
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kennybro's Avatar
Nugent always has used a florentine-cut Birdland, but I doubt that he identified very closely with either Billy or Hank.

Pretty likely that Mayer identifies closely with SRV and Guy.
Old 23rd February 2013
  #142
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro View Post
Nugent always has used a florentine-cut Birdland, but I doubt that he identified very closely with either Billy or Hank.

Pretty likely that Mayer identifies closely with SRV and Guy.
No more. Nugent has been using a solid body for the past few years, frequently a Les Paul.
Attached Thumbnails
Fender v. Gibson - list your preference and why-nugent.jpeg  
Old 23rd February 2013
  #143
Gear Nut
 
vito's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitecat View Post
I think it's rare that any serious musician would use another artist's model as their own main instrument.
Millions of serious artists play Les Paul's signature Gibson. Also Lot's of Blues players play Lucille. Jimmy Page and Jeff Beck played Les Pauls Signature guitars, I don't think anyone is more serious than them.
Old 23rd February 2013
  #144
Quote:
Originally Posted by vito View Post
Millions of serious artists play Les Paul's signature Gibson. Also Lot's of Blues players play Lucille. Jimmy Page and Jeff Beck played Les Pauls Signature guitars, I don't think anyone is more serious than them.
"Millions," huh? Name fifty.

So regarding the Les Paul - you mean this one, right?



Or did you mean this one?



... my point being there isn't really one Les Paul signature model - I guess the closest might be the early 50's goldtop with the trapezoid tailpiece and P90s. Anyone playing those regularly?

Anyway, I wrote more on this earlier, but just to be absolutely clear -

Gibson pretty much just co-opted his name and put his 'signature' on the headstock of anything that had that body shape and scale length. Otherwise, the various models (possibly hundreds now) have little in common, and every single one of them that says 'Les Paul' cannot be considered an 'artist model.' The first image there is of a guitar with a trem, for example. There are a myriad of pickup configurations. The newest Standards have out-of-phase wiring options and direct out options. Some had Neutrik jacks for a while. Some are chambered. Some are weight-relieved. Some are none of the above... the woods even vary, there are all 'hog LPs, the 'traditional' maple-on-'hog, there were 'smartwood' LPs made out of bizarre sustainable woods most of us have never heard of.

I won't take anything away from Les Paul as a player, he was terrific, but the name doesn't represent a 'signature artist model' as far as I'm concerned.

Anyway, since then too I realised that the DGT model from PRS is quite popular. Not sure if any 'pros' play them other than Dave Grissom himself, but it must be one of PRS' better selling models as it's consistently been in the lineup for some time.

And finally, a friend of mine reminded me of a time we saw Kerbdog play in London - one of the support acts' guitarists played a BB King model 335, but the band could best be described as 'glam-prog.' I don't know their name nor have I heard anything of 'em since, but there ya go, rules have exceptions.
Old 23rd February 2013
  #145
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archfrenemy's Avatar
 

Here is the bottom line.

Anyone who bashes a Gibson Les Paul is ignorant...

Anyone who bashes a Fender Strat is ignorant...

To say nothing of how ignorant you have to be to bash all guitars made by these companies!

You can't grab a brand new cheesy version of a Les Paul Signature / Studio off of the wall at guitar center, plug it into a crappy solid state amp and then make negative assumptions on a long line and history of amazing guitars. Same goes with a newer Strat or a Squire. Play some older guitars as well and you will find massive differences in tone and response depending on year, wood, hardware and model.

I am a vintage guitar guy. Not only do they sound infinitely better to me, but they increase in value instead of decrease. That goes for Gibsons and Fenders!
Old 23rd February 2013
  #146
Gear Guru
 
FFTT's Avatar
 

I think it's a good idea to get your hands on a serious fine built guitar, like a Collings,
Tom Anderson before you go shopping for a Gibson or Fender.

Just for perspective, to see & feel how a properly dressed fingerboard feels, how it sounds, how it balances on the strap, as well as fit and finish, weight & features.

If you have a vintage guitar shop close by, go check those out too, even if you can't
afford one, you should know how they feel, play and sound.

Research and legwork take time, but that time also allows you to save up a bit.

Once you find the right guitar, that becomes your goal even if you have to put it
on layaway.

The worst thing you can do looking for a musical instrument is to allow money to
burn a hole in your pocket. Find the instrument first, then figure out what it's going to
cost you to take it home.
Old 23rd February 2013
  #147
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archfrenemy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
I think it's a good idea to get your hands on a serious fine built guitar, like a Collings,
Tom Anderson before you go shopping for a Gibson or Fender.

Just for perspective, to see & feel how a properly dressed fingerboard feels, how it sounds, how it balances on the strap, as well as fit and finish, weight & features.

If you have a vintage guitar shop close by, go check those out too, even if you can't
afford one, you should know how they feel, play and sound.

Research and legwork take time, but that time also allows you to save up a bit.

Once you find the right guitar, that becomes your goal even if you have to put it
on layaway.

The worst thing you can do looking for a musical instrument is to allow money to
burn a hole in your pocket. Find the instrument first, then figure out what it's going to
cost you to take it home.
Never played either one. I will definitely try those out next time I spot one. Thanks for the recommendations.
Old 23rd February 2013
  #148
Gear Guru
 
FFTT's Avatar
 

With the Washington D.C. music scene the way it is, there's really no hurry.

Melody Music out in Leesburg VA carries Collings Acoustics, not sure if they have any electrics. They do generally have a fairly strong selection of better Fenders, but they
won't carry Gibson.

Tis where I found my '93 Strat Plus.

I haven't been to Chuck Levin's in over a decade, so no clue what they carry
these days. They are also listed as a Collings dealer.

Appalachian Bluegrass in Baltimore is also listed as a Collings dealer.


Pretty good demo for the Collings 290 with P-90s




The reason I mention Collings is exactly for the reasons he pointed out in the demo.

Consistently in every evaluation I've heared or read about, you hear Wow The Neck over and over again.
Old 24th February 2013
  #149
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kennybro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
How freaky to see Phil posted here. He's a very good buddy of mine for a long, long time Small world.
Old 24th February 2013
  #150
Gear Nut
 
vito's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitecat View Post
"Millions," huh? Name fifty.

So regarding the Les Paul - you mean this one, right?
I was referring to the original "Les Paul model" by Gibson that came out in 52 and ran till - 1960. there are 1000s or rock stars and serious musicians that play them. After all they are the only people that could afford them.
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