The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Guitars for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Bass through guitar amp
Old 18th July 2012
  #31
Gear Maniac
 
Gebo's Avatar
 

I record a lot of hardcore and punk records. For bass players who play overdriven/distorted I usually split their signal and record the dirty side through a guitar amp and the clean side either through a DI or another rig with cleaner tone. I EQ (on the amp) the clean side to carry the low end and the dirty side for the high end grime. I usually turn the "bass" on the guitar amp way down and don't get too crazy with the volume. I think it works pretty well. A few times I have had bass players get put off by how weird it sounds in the room, but once they hear it in the mix they are on board.
Old 18th July 2012
  #32
Gear Maniac
 

A guitar amp doesn't have the proper frequencies for bass and proper response. Neither does the cab. As they are built for a "Mid" instrument.

Recording bass, just go direct in. It's nice if you can get you a good tube pre amp and run direct in. Not a pre amp that doesn't do anything...But a pre amp that actually works.

Same deal if you wanted to play at home. Run through it and play though it on the computer. That's what I do. But I have a subwoofer. If I didn't have a subwoofer my monitors won't pick up those frequencies that I want to hear to get into the bass line. Sure, you can hear the bass on them, but you just can't feel it enough to get into it. Much like a guitar amp.

I added an M Audio subwoofer to my m-audio monitors and recording bass direct in through a tube pre amp. And that is all I need. A lot of recordings are done like this.

A lot of famous bands do this. To mic a bass cabinet you need special mic's, that handle the frequencies. Much like the one's that you use on a bass drum.

As far as damaging it, it shouldn't. Some people's theory on this, is that it will damage it because the frequency is lower than the frequency the speaker can handle. But that theory doesn't hold up, because it won't go that low, therefore it's not even trying go that low. It's not really going to tear anything up generally.

Although, it will put more wear and tear on your speakers faster just running bass through it and having the bass jacked up. Because they aren't designed to do that. But I wouldn't worry about ruining it. But I wouldn't do it for years.

I just think bass sounds like complete crap through a guitar amp.

Why are people micing their bass with an e906? lol I mean sure you can do it. Am I the only one that likes a low bass tone? An e906 doesn't capture frequencies as low as I want them. An e906 I use to mic my guitar amp's though and it's a great microphone.
Old 18th July 2012
  #33
Gear Maniac
 
Gebo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by saffirepro40 View Post
A guitar amp doesn't have the proper frequencies for bass and proper response. Neither does the cab. As they are built for a "Mid" instrument.

Recording bass, just go direct in. It's nice if you can get you a good tube pre amp and run direct in. Not a pre amp that doesn't do anything...But a pre amp that actually works.

Same deal if you wanted to play at home. Run through it and play though it on the computer. That's what I do. But I have a subwoofer. If I didn't have a subwoofer my monitors won't pick up those frequencies that I want to hear to get into the bass line. Sure, you can hear the bass on them, but you just can't feel it enough to get into it. Much like a guitar amp.

I added an M Audio subwoofer to my m-audio monitors and recording bass direct in through a tube pre amp. And that is all I need. A lot of recordings are done like this.

A lot of famous bands do this. To mic a bass cabinet you need special mic's, that handle the frequencies. Much like the one's that you use on a bass drum.

As far as damaging it, it shouldn't. Some people's theory on this, is that it will damage it because the frequency is lower than the frequency the speaker can handle. But that theory doesn't hold up, because it won't go that low, therefore it's not even trying go that low. It's not really going to tear anything up generally.

Although, it will put more wear and tear on your speakers faster just running bass through it and having the bass jacked up. Because they aren't designed to do that. But I wouldn't worry about ruining it. But I wouldn't do it for years.

I just think bass sounds like complete crap through a guitar amp.

Why are people micing their bass with an e906? lol I mean sure you can do it. Am I the only one that likes a low bass tone? An e906 doesn't capture frequencies as low as I want them. An e906 I use to mic my guitar amp's though and it's a great microphone.
First off, "just go direct in" is bad advice. A single direct track works for some stuff, but not for everything.

As far as micing with an e906, the frequency response goes down to 40khz, which is pretty low, not to mention a lot of people (in this thread at least) take a DI along with the mic'd amp, which will provide more than enough thump.
Old 18th July 2012
  #34
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by saffirepro40 View Post
A

I just think bass sounds like complete crap through a guitar amp.
Nah. Played & recorded bass guitar and double bass through BF & blonde bassman heads. Awesome sound.
Old 18th July 2012
  #35
Lives for gear
 
Bob Ross's Avatar
 

A billion years ago when I was an undergrad in music school my bass amp got stolen a week before my senior recital. I scrounged around frantically and, for whatever reason, the only speaker cabinet I was able to borrow in time for the concert was a Marshall 1960B 4x12" guitar cabinet

It actually sounded okay! Wouldn't be my first choice, but it was acceptable enough that I wound up gigging with that rig for another ~6 weeks rather than going out and buying a real (sic) bass cab asap.
Old 18th July 2012
  #36
Lives for gear
 
ksandvik's Avatar
 

It is a bad to <take any low-impedance audio signal> and run it into a <low impedance> input? No.
Old 18th July 2012
  #37
Gear Addict
 
Flip_'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by saffirepro40 View Post
A guitar amp doesn't have the proper frequencies for bass and proper response. Neither does the cab. As they are built for a "Mid" instrument.
It depends on the bassline though. If your bassline is centered on the low E string on the first few frets, or even lower if you have a 5 string, then yeah you'll probably want a reall bass amp to get those lows. But not all basslines are played there. I personally find most of my basslines are played on the A and D strings somewhere in the middle of the fretboard, which is mostly mid to mid-low frequencies. To me thats the sweet spot for basslines. Also you have players who play a lot of slap bass on the higher strings as well, who get into the mid-mid high freq.

So while a guitar amp might not be good for the super lows, it can work great for those funky brighter mids and produce some cool results. A lot of the best sounds created in music history were result of mismatching equipment, plugging the wrong thing into something.
Old 19th July 2012
  #38
Gear Maniac
 

Well, you guys are correct if that's your taste. I'm just into that very low end sound with the bass. The bass is too middy through a guitar amp to me. It sounds like it's another instrument playing with the guitar, but not quite a bass. It's hard to articulate. LOL

Some people like a really pronounced bass sound. I'm the opposite. I use it more as a feel rather than hearing it in a mid range.

But then you got bands like tool who made the band as awesome as it is, by using that midrange bass sound.
Old 19th July 2012
  #39
Deleted User
Guest
HRD 410 head through GK bass cab= Yummy!

I have a MIM Hot Rod Deville 410, along with many other tube amps. . As you know, the amp has more than a bit in common with the 59 Bassman. I love this thing for both guitar and bass. For $400, it was a steal (mint). While I agree that it can be a bit of a brute in the power department, the tone approaches sublime. My amp has the Twin Stack mod, along with a few others. I also swapped the tubes for Electro-Harmonix units, which I like and feel are a very good value.
In terms of bass, I use the head into a Gallien-Krueger 2 X 10 cab with an Eminence 10” 200W Bass speaker on one side and an Eminence Legend (for guitar only) on the other. It makes a great recording cab I can put in an iso room. The sound is full, deep and punchy. Blended with a tube DI, it gives me everything I need for recording. I use the lower power #2 input with Fender basses.
I would add that I intitially installed the Eminence bass speaker in the Deville cab, but the rattle was insurmountable, even at moderate volume. The tone was wonderful, though. Paired with one of the stock 10" guitar speakers, it gave me a bit more clarity. Even using ONLY the stock guitar speakers sounded remarkable, provided I kept it way down. That was where it all started. Ultimately, I decided to go with the external bass cab. Best of both worlds. I think it makes a super bass head. for classic, clean/full bass tones. Not talking Chris Squire here......
Old 19th July 2012
  #40
yeah, ya know you can also always use guitar head to drive a bass cabinet, Observe correct impedances.

I do this all the time.

The biggest reason being, that guitar amps typically don't have the extreme low freq response that bass amps do. When using a DI, you already usually have WAY more than enough bottom and sub freq's with most modern active basses. I would argue sometimes TOO MUCH to be usable in a busy mix.

The guitar amp and bass thing speaker gives good mid definition, still usually enough bass, even with or without a DI (for me anyways) and kinda rolls off all the mostly unusable mud in the bottom end. To me, doing this type of "filtering" at the source sounds better for Rock music to digital than eq'ing it out.

Also seems to work better than using a bass amp and bass cab, and eq'ing in post, and sometimes better than cutting heavily at the bass amp's eq / tone control.

Just watch with tube gtr amps, don't boost a bunch of lows on an active bass, going into the amp, leave it flat or roll it off some.

The biggest issue I see with young bass players coming in besides technique, is that a lot of then don't know what their tone controls do. Some are basic shelf type deals, others are parametric. Many times I have seen people with their parametric DIMED on the low freq at some freq. Talk about nasty. Or, even with a plain old tone control, they crank the bass, thinking more = better.

There seems to be confusion too, with old passive and active stuff, where on some actives, the unity gain point is halfway up, but the player treats it like an old passive bass, and just turns everything all the way up.

Anyway, bass into gtr amp no big deal.Bass into gtr amp with bass cab...I like this.

john
Old 24th July 2012
  #41
Lives for gear
 

this is what the bass player form Mutemath does on all their recordings. his bass tones are so got dam insane.. makes you wonder.....
Old 2nd August 2012
  #42
The only caveat I got from an amp tech was to watch out for the resonant frequency of the speaker. If a guitar spkr has a resonant frequency of say 75 hz then a guitar won't make much of that frequency. However a bass will, and that may damage your speaker if you do it a lot. Having said that I've used Mesa 295, Hiwatt DR103, AC30 and even a Blues Junior and got great results, although I always take a DI as well for low end (and obviously check the phase and alignment when you do this!). It's always sounded pretty good to me. In fact I prefer it to recording through a bass amp...
Old 3rd August 2012
  #43
Lives for gear
 
Bob Ross's Avatar
 

btw, last time I saw Stanley Clarke performing he was running his electric bass through, in addition to some monsterous "normal" bass amp, a little Fender Champ...presumably for a little extra bit of twang & grind.
Old 3rd August 2012
  #44
Lower wattage guitar amps wont handle bass very well at all, and could lead to damage as the power amp has to work harder to reproduce such low frequencies. a long time ago when i first started playing bass in a band, I used my Laney LC50 guitar combo. after about an hour or so the volume would slowly start to drop and the tone started getting ****ty. I expect if I carried on for much longer it would have eventually died completely. Never experienced the same volume/tone suck issues when playing guitar through it for hours on end.

Think about it.. Bass amps are generally much higher wattage because they REQUIRE that power to be able to produce the low frequencies required for a bass to sound nice through it.
Old 4th August 2012
  #45
Lives for gear
 
MicDaddy's Avatar
 

I pound a little Jensen loaded into a '60s Valco (supro) to the max, and while it lacks the low end (picked back up from a DI) it sounds very good.
Old 4th August 2012
  #46
Lives for gear
 
thepilgrimsdream's Avatar
 

I have used a marshall plexi, deluxe reverb and ampeg jet for bass. I do not advise high volumes, but otherwise I think they can work great for recording bass. Keep in mind, if you have a P-bass or Jazz bass it will help enormous amounts over having a newer style bass that is completely low end heavy with no nice midrange. Old tube amps make those fender basses shine!
Old 4th August 2012
  #47
Lives for gear
 
e3p0's Avatar
 

It is perfectly fine and sounds good too. To those that say not to do it, don't guitar players use octave pedals sometimes? I use my EHX HOG into a Fender Blues Deluxe and it sounds great.

Anyway, I am not a VanHalen fan so much, but the current issue of Bass Player has a spread with Wolfgang and he uses 5150 III's for his distorted tones.

-e
Old 4th August 2012
  #48
Lives for gear
 

I bought a bass a couple of months ago and ran it thru my studio monitors for awhile, then decide to get a dedicated bass amp, a Ampeg BA-108 practice amp. The Ampeg sounds fantastic and it saved my monitors. Definitely a good investment !!
Old 4th August 2012
  #49
Gear Head
 
djstudio048's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by averphil View Post
Lower wattage guitar amps wont handle bass very well at all, and could lead to damage as the power amp has to work harder to reproduce such low frequencies. a long time ago when i first started playing bass in a band, I used my Laney LC50 guitar combo. after about an hour or so the volume would slowly start to drop and the tone started getting ****ty. I expect if I carried on for much longer it would have eventually died completely. Never experienced the same volume/tone suck issues when playing guitar through it for hours on end.

Think about it.. Bass amps are generally much higher wattage because they REQUIRE that power to be able to produce the low frequencies required for a bass to sound nice through it.
From what I understand, you need that power, usually between 200 and 300watts tube power, also for the headroom that is needed to keep the bass clean at high levels.
Old 4th August 2012
  #50
Lives for gear
 
Ron Vogel's Avatar
 

I like to run a split, one to a DI, the other though my little 70's Champ with an 8" speaker and mic it. I have to take the grille off and get the mic about a 1/4" to 1/2" off the cone. I usually run the amp about 1/2 way up. I blend the two tracks at mixdown and it sounds killer. The trick is to not let the speaker fart out too much for a good sound.

As previously posted...for recording it adds some great organic dirt that DI's alone won't give you...but I wouldn't use a guitar amp for bass in a live or practice setting. The speaker will distort wildly...and could lead to output transformer damage in a tube amp.
Old 4th August 2012
  #51
Gear Head
 
djstudio048's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Vogel View Post
I like to run a split, one to a DI, the other though my little 70's Champ with an 8" speaker and mic it. I have to take the grille off and get the mic about a 1/4" to 1/2" off the cone. I usually run the amp about 1/2 way up. I blend the two tracks at mixdown and it sounds killer. The trick is to not let the speaker fart out too much for a good sound.
Is there any way you would post that track? Would love to hear it.
Old 4th August 2012
  #52
Gear Head
 

I have just read the first few comments but yeah, a bass CAN sound good through a gtr amp but if you want a really GOOD sound for a bass gtr (in terms of normalitarian production) use a bass amp

It wont blow your amp unless you push it through a preamp or compressor or something before the amp. Happy recording
Old 4th August 2012
  #53
Gear Head
 
djstudio048's Avatar
 

Any speaker will bust if it is driven by enough bass and power. It's a matter of whether or not you want to risk hurting the guitar speaker, since they are not designed to handle as much bass as a bass speaker.


---
---
---
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnkenn View Post
Apparently, they're (UAD plug-ins) going Apollo only...
Post BS like above, and I will call you out on it.
Old 4th August 2012
  #54
Lives for gear
 
Ron Vogel's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by djstudio048 View Post
Is there any way you would post that track? Would love to hear it.
I only have one raw track I could strip down...it's not a final mxi...hell, it's missing most of the structure and the timing is a disaster at this stage...but here's a clip. I moved on to a new track, and it just so happens I'm writing the bass parts this weekend...and doing the same set-up for it.

There is nothing wrong with just a DI, it sounds great...but I love the texture my amp brings to the sound.
Attached Files

Serendipity.wav (7.27 MB, 572 views)

Old 4th August 2012
  #55
Gear Head
 
djstudio048's Avatar
 

That sounds very cool. You would never know you tracked a guitar amp. If you have a second guitar amp and a way to split your signal, track both amps, be careful with phase, and pan the two guitar tracks a little left and right and leave the bass DI in the middle.

Or stick two mics on the guitar amp, one close and one far, and pan those two with DI in the middle. You may run into some phase issues, but its just a thought.



---
---
---
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnkenn View Post
Apparently, they're (UAD plug-ins) going Apollo only...
Post BS like above, and I will call you out on it.
Old 4th August 2012
  #56
Lives for gear
 
Ron Vogel's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by djstudio048 View Post
That sounds very cool. You would never know you tracked a guitar amp. If you have a second guitar amp and a way to split your signal, track both amps, be careful with phase, and pan the two guitar tracks a little left and right and leave the bass DI in the middle.

Or stick two mics on the guitar amp, one close and one far, and pan those two with DI in the middle. You may run into some phase issues, but its just a thought.



---
---
---


Post BS like above, and I will call you out on it.
Thanks, I forgot to mention...that's completely raw; no eq or compression. It's a little wooly...but I don't want to fuss with it until I get the drums and keys sorted out.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump