The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Guitars for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Diezel VH4 vs. Herbert Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 22nd December 2010
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Diezel VH4 vs. Herbert

I'm looking for a new amp for my studio. Main application will be huge rhythm sounds. I don't care to much for lead sounds or fast metal like mesuggah or so.
Soundwise I think of Slipknot, Rob Zombie, Stonesour, Alter Bridge, Alice in Chains and so on...

Now I want to know if the VH4 or the Herbert suits best for these application. I already tried the VH4 and liked it pretty much. I just wonder if it's worth to try the Herbert as well.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #2
Lives for gear
 
in the red's Avatar
 

i would go for the vh4! don´t care for the mid cut section on the herbert. other then that i think they sound pretty similar, diezel tone...
Old 22nd December 2010
  #3
Gear Addict
I have a VH4 and love channel 3 for a great marshall esque rhyth. sound - channel 2 for some nice cleans and channel 4 for ripping lead sounds - the Herbert is more Metal in a lot of ways .....
I have the VH4, Mesa Dual Rec, Orange Rockerverb 100 and a Fender Blues and I can cover pretty muvh everything - the Diezel is pretty well used on various styles ...
Hope the above helps!
kj
Old 22nd December 2010
  #4
Lives for gear
 
tomdarude's Avatar
def. try a Fryette "Deliverance120" too....

amp-list to try for great rhythm tones:

Fryette Deliverance
Marshall JCM800 (old)
Hiwatt DR103
Marshall JTM45
Diezel Herbert (haven´t heard the VH4 yet)

plus surely a lot of Divided by 13 amps....

I think the key is to combine different tones and use way less gain than you think you need!
Old 23rd December 2010
  #5
Gear Maniac
 

Thanks for throwing the fryette in the competition. I will definately give it a shot.

By the way: How does the Rockerverb compare to the VH4?
Old 23rd December 2010
  #6
Lives for gear
 
in the red's Avatar
 

the rockerverb doesn´t compare at all! i have a rockerverb 100 in the studio right now, and it downright sucks! it sounds grainy, compressed and 2 dimensional! a diezel walks all over it imo!
Old 23rd December 2010
  #7
Moderator
 
Blast9's Avatar
Another German amp suggestion

I really like the rhythm sounds of the Framus Dragon.

Channel 1 is clean - but you can push it to get some Ac/DC style crunch.

Channel 2 is quality hi gain modern British vibe - plenty of gain on tap and good mids and lows

Anyway this clip has that Alice in Chains metal vibe to it



...and this one shows off the higher gain of channel 2 pretty well
Old 23rd December 2010
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Flying_Dutchman's Avatar
 

In my experience the Diezel Herbert has a more modern sound
I would also try Einstein, great amp
Framus Dragon is very good and also Peavey XXX (both do the modern high gain sounds very good imo and sound 3D recorded)
New Orange Dual Terror is suprisingly good imo, great clean and crunch sounds, usabel highgain as well imo
Old 23rd December 2010
  #9
Lives for gear
 
in the red's Avatar
 

i have recorded and played all diezel high-gain amps (einstein, vh4 and herbert), and while the einstein is very nice, it´s softer sounding then it´s big brother´s. so for heavy rhythm guitars it wouldn´t be my first choice.
the framus dragon has a lot more "sizzle" in the high end, so it´s more of a "new metal amp" to me.
played the standard tiny terror once or twice, very nice. would love to try it in the studio sometime!
Old 23rd December 2010
  #10
Gear Head
 

Another...

... happy Diezel-user here. I have both the VH-4 and the Herbert and I like them very much, didn't find anything that blasted me more in the last 4 years. If you're looking for a lot of heavy tone, go Herbert. If you're looking for heavy tone and more flexibility, go VH-4. In the studio we always compared them and went for VH-4 at last. I also need to say that it cuts through better in any live band setup.
Old 23rd December 2010
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Flying_Dutchman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by in the red View Post
i have recorded and played all diezel high-gain amps (einstein, vh4 and herbert), and while the einstein is very nice, it´s softer sounding then it´s big brother´s. so for heavy rhythm guitars it wouldn´t be my first choice.
the framus dragon has a lot more "sizzle" in the high end, so it´s more of a "new metal amp" to me.
played the standard tiny terror once or twice, very nice. would love to try it in the studio sometime!
i totally agree, einstein is softer/more "brown"

from the internet:
i just watched a youtube interview and Stone Sour seems to go for H&K Trione now

Slipknot used Rivera Knuckelhead and switched to Orange amps, i think (guitar & bass magazine article)

I think on Alterbridge "Blackbird" they used a Mesa Recto ( i watched this in the "making of" video)

Nickelback used Mesa Recto + XXX in the past (gearslutz thread)

i listend to the new Disturbed record and think it´s a silver Jubilee sound - any idea?

... just some information i found
Old 25th December 2010
  #12
Here for the gear
 
DIRGE13's Avatar
 

I have had a Herbert for 5 years and it sounds great,great crunch-can do the Ac/Dc hard rock thing easy.But I always reach for my Uberschall,just because I can pinch harmonics effortlessly and it is more harmonically rich.
Old 26th December 2010
  #13
Here for the gear
 
secondruleis's Avatar
 

Diezel VH4 Vote

Go for the VH4, you won't be dissapointed. I own the VH4 (as well as many other amps) and use it as my primary amp. I'm extremely happy with it and I thought I would mention that it is an extremely versatile amp. Not only because it has four channels, but because the type and make of power and preamp tubes you choose to use in it drastically affect the sound of the amp. Although there is an obvious audible difference when changing tubes in most amps, the VH4 is responds in a more obvious way to tube changes which IMHO, makes it extremely flexible.
Old 26th December 2010
  #14
High End Moderator
 
mwagener's Avatar
I would also throw the SPLAWN QuickRod into the mix, well worth checking out. Love the Herbert too.
Old 26th December 2010
  #15
Moderator
 
James Lugo's Avatar
 

I've used most of the high gain guys and we had a huge amp fest at my studio last week and to me the VH4 is king. Just amazing sounding and feeling amp. Crunch without fuzz. I owned a Herbert and had the hardest time ever getting good sounds on record for some reason. But the VH4 is like set everything at noon and she sounds perfect. We had a Herbert at the amp fest and struggled with it. The Splawn QR is also a great amp.

Check out the clips of Liquid Metal and Mod Squad:
YouTube - jameslugo's Channel
Old 26th December 2010
  #16
Lives for gear
 
cdog's Avatar
James, I respectfully disagree. The Herbert is the more refined of the two amps, while the VH4 is more of a pure beast/freak, I just dont find 4 channels to be practical from a performance standpoint.

Although Ive moved away from an ultra high gain rig and crazy multiamp touring setups, I really think the Herbert is in the top 5 all time for that category of amp. Maybe the one you played was out of bias or had a bad tube. They are finnicky, overly complicated amps, like Mesa. When its all set perfectly and the moon is eclipsed by the sun on the 4th Tuesday of the year, yes it sounds amazing. But as a day to day jamming/giggin/touring amp, its just way too expensive, unreliable, and heavy, and hard to fix.

These days Im mostly a VHT/Soldano guy when it comes to higher gain stuff. I still have a Mesa Dual Rec from the very first year they were issued, with some mods, and although it sounds like a $40 distortion pedal on crack, it often wins in the shootouts and makes the final tracks because it just has "that sound" which works in a mix - even if it sounds horrible by itself next to a real amp like a vintage Marshall (modded for gain) or a VHT/Soldano.

I think the Diezel amps are very cool though, if I owned a big studio I might get one again, but its much more practical to own 3-4 different amps than a single one which costs as much as all of them put together. Its like owning a $250,000 sports car - yes its sweet to tool around the track once a week but the maintenance will kill you and you might be better off buying 3-4 classic cars instead which wont depreciate in value and may even increase.

Old 26th December 2010
  #17
Moderator
 
James Lugo's Avatar
 

I think for anyone they have to hear and play things for themselves. At our amp weekend we had ever amp mentioned SLO (George Lynch's), Herbert, VHT etc... For many at the event (nearly 60 people) the VH4 was hands down the best and meanest. For the guys in the room while we demoed them all when I fired up the VH4 people gasped, that's how intense it was. For me, the guy who played guitar through every amp it was no competition the VH4 was in another league but again that's just me, YMMV.

As for the Herbert being more refined, not sure what that means but I owned one for about 2 years and it was a pain in the ass to dial in. The guy who brought the one to the amp fest had troubles dialing it in, we actually spent more time trying to dial in the Herbert then all the other high gain amps combined. The VH4 just sounds right to me.
Old 26th December 2010
  #18
Gear Maniac
 

Ok thanks for all the input. In the meantime I have ordered a Herbert and a Fryette Deliverance 120 for a comparison. So within the next week I will know how the hold up against the VH4. To be honest I have tried a rectifier reborn (2010) as well but I didn't like it at all. Even with a Tubescreamer in front of it. I really tried to like it, but it didn't cnvince me at all.
Old 26th December 2010
  #19
Gear Addict
I'm surprised about the Orange Rockerverb 100 having no love.... For clean and average rock gain I really like it - I Wouldn't for more hard rock use the Orange unless AC/CD sounds as the VH4 kills it and if you want the U.S high gain sound then go Dual Rec - but I like the character if straight ahead rock and not modern ........

I ve been tempted to buy a Herbert as well but not sure whether it would be overkill with my set up .....
kj
Old 26th December 2010
  #20
Lives for gear
 
tomdarude's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwagener View Post
I would also throw the SPLAWN QuickRod into the mix, well worth checking out. Love the Herbert too.
On a second note.....If I was searching for a great rock/metal amp, I´d probably use my chance and ask Michael Wagner for his opinion...he knows a thing or two... heh


PS: Frohe Weihnachten Michael und einen guten Rutsch!!
Schöne Grüße, Tom
Old 26th December 2010
  #21
Gear Nut
 

I used to own a Herbert and it was completely love/hate. It would sound great on it's own but I could never get it to cut when recording or gigging it. Fun amp but there is a reason so many guys run their herberts with a second, more midrangey amp (like a Marshall).
Old 26th December 2010
  #22
Lives for gear
 
johnnyjellybean's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdog View Post
James, I respectfully disagree. The Herbert is the more refined of the two amps, while the VH4 is more of a pure beast/freak, I just dont find 4 channels to be practical from a performance standpoint.

Although Ive moved away from an ultra high gain rig and crazy multiamp touring setups, I really think the Herbert is in the top 5 all time for that category of amp. Maybe the one you played was out of bias or had a bad tube. They are finnicky, overly complicated amps, like Mesa. When its all set perfectly and the moon is eclipsed by the sun on the 4th Tuesday of the year, yes it sounds amazing. But as a day to day jamming/giggin/touring amp, its just way too expensive, unreliable, and heavy, and hard to fix.

These days Im mostly a VHT/Soldano guy when it comes to higher gain stuff. I still have a Mesa Dual Rec from the very first year they were issued, with some mods, and although it sounds like a $40 distortion pedal on crack, it often wins in the shootouts and makes the final tracks because it just has "that sound" which works in a mix - even if it sounds horrible by itself next to a real amp like a vintage Marshall (modded for gain) or a VHT/Soldano.

I think the Diezel amps are very cool though, if I owned a big studio I might get one again, but its much more practical to own 3-4 different amps than a single one which costs as much as all of them put together. Its like owning a $250,000 sports car - yes its sweet to tool around the track once a week but the maintenance will kill you and you might be better off buying 3-4 classic cars instead which wont depreciate in value and may even increase.

I'm siding with James on this one. I've owned both and find the Herbert to be grainier and geared towards metal. I really didn't bond with it. The VH4 on the other hand pretty much covers one end of the spectrum to the other and gets classic tones a lot easier. To me the VH4 is much more refined than the Herbert. VH4 all the way.
Old 26th December 2010
  #23
Lives for gear
 
johnnyjellybean's Avatar
 

And then there is the Wizard Modern Classic 100
Old 26th December 2010
  #24
Lives for gear
 
shatz's Avatar
Diezel VH4 vs. Herbert

For good rock tone I love splawn amps. I have both the splawn quick rod 2 and splawn nitro here in the studio. Also can't forget about the soldano slo. With these 3 amps, everything else becomes obsolete to me. lol
Old 26th December 2010
  #25
Lives for gear
 
Flying_Dutchman's Avatar
 

these Splawn amps examples are really impressive
thanks for sharing!
Old 26th December 2010
  #26
Gear Addict
 

i own both amps....they're TOTALY different beasts and sound completely different to me!!
The Herbert has more "sag" to it...."wetter" amp if you will...more compressed.
Its a high gain monster of an amp...
The VH4 is a very "dry" amp in comparison....VERY articulate...not a forgiving amp by any means!!...Some guys hate playing throught it ...some guys love it.
VH4 is more open....more organic..and less compressed then herbie , but that said is capable of delivering some serious gain!
I've cut many trax with both amps with much success, and for drop tunings i often prefer the herbie.
But the vh4 see's alot of action in my world.
Again ,the character of the distortion's and feel are so different you really have try em both.
I did....so own both!
And Yes Spalwns are way cool....(its my newest addition actually)...WAY different then any diezel.
(sounds like a VERY pissed off marshall!)..different beast!
Old 27th December 2010
  #27
Diezel VH4 vs. Herbert

Quote:
Originally Posted by diezelmonster666
... happy Diezel-user here. I have both the VH-4 and the Herbert and I like them very much, didn't find anything that blasted me more in the last 4 years. If you're looking for a lot of heavy tone, go Herbert. If you're looking for heavy tone and more flexibility, go VH-4. In the studio we always compared them and went for VH-4 at last. I also need to say that it cuts through better in any live band setup.
My take exactly
Old 27th December 2010
  #28
Moderator
 
James Lugo's Avatar
 

I had a Herbert first (for about 2 years) and loved playing it but never could get a tone recorded that I liked. It was very weird and I tried every setting, guitar, cab, mic, pre ect... There was something about that amp that just didn't agree with me. I played my buddies VH4 on his crappy 2X12 cab and didn't really dig it. But then about a year and half ago I was at Tone Merchants trying out cabs and Rob plugged me into his 2007 VH4 and I started to play through some 1969 Spec Scumback cabs and I was crushed by the effortless tone, knobs at noon and it sounded beautiful, so thick and heavy. It was his floor demo so I wasn't even sure if he was selling it, but I found an '05 on craigslist, went to check it out and it was at this dudes house and he had the worst cab, I played it and couldn't turn up and it didn't really sound so hot but I figured it was the cab, I bought it took it back to the studio and it didn't really have the goods. I kept remembering the sound of the one at TM. Needless to say I dumped it and bought Rob's 2007 and never looked back. Every time I put any mic, anywhere on the cab on almost any setting with any guitar it sounds great. Idiot proof. I use almost only the first 3 channels, mostly 3 and 2. Channel 2 with my tele sounds incredible and 3 with my black Paul is ridiculous. Channel 3 with a Paul to me the ultimate expression of the VH4. Now after buying the '05 and not liking it as much I did much research and found many people saying the same thing and some techs saying there was a change in '07 that made the '07 till now versions better. I'm not sure of the change but I could hear a big difference. Anyway, love the VH4 it's probably about the single most useful head for rock and metal I have ever used or owned. The Wizard, Splawn QR and new Friedman are also amazing heads for the job.
Old 27th December 2010
  #29
Lives for gear
 
Flying_Dutchman's Avatar
 

great amp vids! thanks
some amps are still missing, amps that are good for metal imo
like 5150, XXX, Cobra and Jubilee
maybe some goodies like engl straight or the sovtek mig ones
if you pm me your speaker and mic setting, i could ad it, would be a pleasure

Last edited by Flying_Dutchman; 27th December 2010 at 02:55 AM.. Reason: typing
Old 2nd March 2011
  #30
Here for the gear
 

Best Diezel tone = VH4 + Herbert

I own a 2010 VH4-S and a 2011 Herbert. I use Seymour Duncan Blackouts in ESP guitars. I use Mesa 212s loaded with Vintage 30s.

--Tubes I'm using in each--
I thought the VH4-S sucked with the stock EL34s, so I loaded it up with SED 6L6 and now it sounds great.
The Herbert still has the stock Ruby EL34s and it sounds good on everything except solos (pick attack is too sharp at loud volumes). I'm thinking that one or two sets of 6L6s in the Herbert will smooth out the pick attack when soloing.

--Comparison--
At LOUD volumes and when playing down-tuned metal, the Herbert is by far the best metal amp I've ever heard. The VH4 cannot compete with the Herbert in this regard. The cleans on the Herbert sound like I'm running the guitar through a bass amp.
The VH4 is a more versatile amp that sounds better for low-gain, mid-gain, and soloing. The cleans on the VH4 are ok, but not great.

The VH4 works very well for metal tuned to E, Eb, and D. Tunings from C# and lower are better on the Herbert.

FYI -- My Mesa Recto Preamp (2:100 power amp) has way better cleans than either of these amps.

--The Solution--
I run the Herbert and the VH4 at the same time. This is the ultimate Diezel tone. It is better than either amp individually. The riffing is intense, the solos are smoother, and the cleans are very good.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Space Nugget / So much gear, so little time
6
Neon Heart / So much gear, so little time
1
VH4_Brewtality / So much gear, so little time
3
tradarama / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
2
Seth / So much gear, so little time
0

Forum Jump
Forum Jump