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Stratocasters Have No Sustain! Electric Guitar
Old 1 week ago
  #121
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
Of course I'm not saying that tINY. It is a sweeping generalization and subject to the difficulties and limitations in any generalization. I have agonized over whether my Les Paul should be Soapbars or Humbucker so which is "the real Les Paul"? Similar arguments exist for Strats and Teles. I think that doesn't change the historical fact that Pop Music was largely defined by those three guitars and that affects us all; musicians, listeners, and manufacturers.

Fair enough. The other thing along those lines is the low-fi sound of guitar amplifiers...

Electric guitar sound is a lot more than just the guitar. I think it's starting to form a few "standard" sounds, but people are always pushing the envelope.



-tINY

Old 1 week ago
  #122
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audioforce's Avatar
 

Mmm,.... Pop, Pop. POP!
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Stratocasters Have No Sustain!-225fa278105f39521b8ec385602cb9dd-duane-eddy-jazz-guitar.jpg   Stratocasters Have No Sustain!-562f857b438ec526fc3eb68f4f50832b-rockabilly-rock-rockabilly-music-2.jpg   Stratocasters Have No Sustain!-1228351_orig.jpg   Stratocasters Have No Sustain!-140214617616791e6f19ef10bc98074e-gretsch-goal.jpg   Stratocasters Have No Sustain!-bb6a3e8829ab7495c8713d3fd103de3a-elvis-presley-family-king-creole.jpg  

Stratocasters Have No Sustain!-bdcbb55aacfca7cbd1e2db6c4ed5bcea-ac-dc-rock-n-roll.jpg   Stratocasters Have No Sustain!-c96dbbed06aa7fe107fa652f1710d5db-guitar-hero-guitar-players.jpg   Stratocasters Have No Sustain!-eb183b8214125d1c501b85f4bb5d25d2-guitar-kits-gretsch.jpg   Stratocasters Have No Sustain!-georgetenny.jpg   Stratocasters Have No Sustain!-lennon-gretsch-6120-2.jpg.540x540_q85_autocrop.jpg  

Stratocasters Have No Sustain!-1228351_orig.jpg   Stratocasters Have No Sustain!-562f857b438ec526fc3eb68f4f50832b-rockabilly-rock-rockabilly-music-2.jpg  
Old 1 week ago
  #123
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elambo's Avatar
So getting back to Strats, eh...
Old 1 week ago
  #124
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The Strat sound doesn't have as much sustain because the classic sound from it it not overly distorted.

Old 1 week ago
  #125
Old 1 week ago
  #126
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enorbet2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
The Strat sound doesn't have as much sustain because the classic sound from it it not overly distorted.
How it was commonly used has little bearing on being inherent to the design. Distortion is a product of processing not inherent to any one guitar with the only exception being that some pickups are more 'friendly" with distortion than others, but that is easily fixed.

Several factors contribute to or inhibit sustain but there is obviously no exclusion caused by fundamental Strat design that precludes either possibility One can maximize whichever option one prefers.
Old 1 week ago
  #127
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
How it was commonly used has little bearing on being inherent to the design. Distortion is a product of processing not inherent to any one guitar with the only exception being that some pickups are more 'friendly" with distortion than others, but that is easily fixed.

Several factors contribute to or inhibit sustain but there is obviously no exclusion caused by fundamental Strat design that precludes either possibility One can maximize whichever option one prefers.

But, it's rendition of the "holy three" is less driven - and we are talking standards here.

I have one that sustains a lot into a clean amp - but it's a neck-through and has micro-coil pickups... is it not a "strat" or is there a musical archetype here that we are discussing?




-tINY

Old 1 week ago
  #128
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As far as strats with sustain, is there a definitive description of gilmour's studio signal chain for "the wall" solo overdubs?

I think I googled this a few times in the past and found zillions of opinions that were just....opinions.

As to off-topic gretsch sustain in regards to my fairly huge gretsch collection... I installed floating sound units on one of my old 58 Nashville's and on one of my falcons. As unweildly as the fsu is, it makes for some beautiful sustain on clean overdubs, with me adding a bit of light bigsby wiggle for accent. I get great sounds doing that...sometimes also switching the guitars out of phase as well. I also don't use much, if any compression. It's a one-trick pony sound, but nice sustain when I use it.
Old 1 week ago
  #129
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Just noticed this thread is from 2010. LOL.



Computer, INITIATE TOPIC LENIENCY MODE.

computer: Topic leniency mode initiated, Mr. force.

Thanks, computer. Now use alternate topic generator algorithm to suggest additional topics.

computer: Will do, Mr. force.

1. What is the best amp sim for Stratocasters?

2. What is the worst amp sim for Stratocasters?

3. Amp Sims. AARRGGHH!!!! Whose fu*king idea was that?

4. Why do Stratocasters suck so completely when it comes to ..................[here insert additional information]..........?

5. Why are Gretsch guitars so awesome that only a chosen few can really comprehend their awesomeness without intense mental and emotional preparation?

6. Pony Rides. Yay or nay?

6.1. Pony Rides. How long is too long?

7. Which Stratocaster [trem or hardtail] causes the least hearing damage when played through an amp sim?



ANYONE ELSE PLEASE SUGGEST ADDITIONAL GREAT TOPICS!!!


yours truly and bored with most topics,

audioforce
Old 1 week ago
  #130
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enorbet2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tINY View Post

But, it's rendition of the "holy three" is less driven - and we are talking standards here.

I have one that sustains a lot into a clean amp - but it's a neck-through and has micro-coil pickups... is it not a "strat" or is there a musical archetype here that we are discussing?

-tINY
I think that's an important consideration since much like my above question "Which is the real Les Paul?" it invites us to consider what exactly defines a Strat, Tele, or Les Paul? Because this can be quite subjective I'd like to offer that it is a characteristic sound quality no matter how you get it. Neither of the three can exactly (with analog anyway) recreate the exact qualities of the other, at least in certain signature sounds.

One obvious example of this is the Strat "stuck in-between" sound. I've heard other guitars get kind of close but naturally a Strat does it best precisely because Strats defined it.

Pictured below is a guitar I built from scratch. Though everything else is made from raw wood the ebony fretboard was already slotted when I bought it. The neck pup is an SD MIni-PAF, the middle pup is a Quarter Pounder Tele bridge pup, and the bridge pup is an old Ultrasonic Vintage with coil tap. It can get very close to some Tele tones or even the Strat "in-between" sound... close enough for Live work. However when recording if I want "The Real Deal" I pick up a Strat, Tele or Les Paul.



I think my point still stands that Strat Tone doesn't have to be low sustain and I see no problem of dialing a low sustain tone at will with any Strat with just minor adjustments.
Old 1 week ago
  #131
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audioforce's Avatar
 

At first I was frightened by it.

But now the more I look at it, it just makes me feel confused.



Bonus Topic: Enorbet's guitar. Who knew?
Old 1 week ago
  #132
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enorbet2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
At first I was frightened by it.
But now the more I look at it, it just makes me feel confused.
Bonus Topic: Enorbet's guitar. Who knew?
While I have to admit I've been a huge fan of the Tweed Tremolux ever since I heard Tommy Principato play his Live, if you think my guitar is frightening and confusing you should see and hear my amps!
Old 1 week ago
  #133
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Old 1 week ago
  #134
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audioforce's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post




audioforce
Old 1 week ago
  #135
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audioforce's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
While I have to admit I've been a huge fan of the Tweed Tremolux ever since I heard Tommy Principato play his Live, if you think my guitar is frightening and confusing you should see and hear my amps!
Very cool that you made your own guitar. Interesting piece, I must say.

Now there's something you don't see every day.

It kind of reminded me of a Roland Guitar Synth I used to have, or maybe a little like one of the Alembics I had for awhile. [Kind of wish I would have kept those].



cheers,


audioforce
Old 1 week ago
  #136
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post

ANYONE ELSE PLEASE SUGGEST ADDITIONAL GREAT TOPICS!!!


your truly and bored with most topics,

audioforce
Ok I try to generate some flame topics for you:
-Can a stratocaster do metal?
-Can an explorer do country?
-Is a telecaster with humbuckers still a telecaster?
-Why is the boss hypermetal discountinued?
-Is a Jazz Bass only for Jazz just like the name suggests?

Old 1 week ago
  #137
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If you want Flames...you got it!

The most divisive emotional avalanche I've ever witnessed on GearSlutz was a tangent by some complete bonehead trying to assert that Music is not a Language... either that or whether it is right and proper for toilet paper to be installed to unravel from the top of the roll or from the bottom of the roll when any idiot knows bottom is best
Old 1 week ago
  #138
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enorbet2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
Very cool that you made your own guitar. Interesting piece, I must say.
Now there's something you don't see every day.
It kind of reminded me of a Roland Guitar Synth I used to have, or maybe a little like one of the Alembics I had for awhile. [Kind of wish I would have kept those].

cheers,
audioforce
I really don't get the Roland Synth Guitar association but OK. It actually came to be from several sources. Having been a long term Les Paul player who later bought an old Silvertone Amp-in-Case guitar, I was very familiar with how base design either caused or inhibited a condition where a guitar could stand on it's own or be likely to fall over.

Along with that I had learned from Jimmy D'Aquisto that a large amount of symmetry combined with a small amount of assymetry creates interesting harmonics, so the body is chambered in complete symmetry and both Maple top and Honduuras Mahogany back are bookmatched to offset the desired assymmetry at both ends. He also taught me how how tapping for adjusting to sound was almost a mirror image on electrics compared to acoustics.

Having been an associate and friend to Paul Reed Smith I learned or confirmed that there are interesting sonic tradeoffs between parallel back and top guitars and carved tops (non-parallel); that a blend of Teflon and Delrin makes an extremely low friction nut; that string angle from nut to machine heads is a crucial design choice and that locking nuts and locking, fine tuning vibrato tailpieces were not essential to staying in tune and from a not famous luthier that 1/4 inch drill stock makes great truss rods.

I had learned a great deal about basic construction from a 3rd generation violin maker and an old Classic Guitar luthier (among a host of others) about musical woods, joints, and finish.

Since form follows function, that's how it came about in trying to get a mostly Les Paul quality with some Strat-like possibilities. It functions really well but I do regret not binding the fretboard as a further concession to Les Paul design. I've only made 6 guitars in my life but each was unique and varied from the others but this is probably the most "confusing and frightening" but also highly utilitarian. It covers a lot of sweet territory.

FWIW it does get really close to a Strat with a LOT of natural sustain.
Old 1 week ago
  #139
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What no ES 335 love?
Old 1 week ago
  #140
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by avalanchecanvass View Post
There are main reasons Clapton and Hendrix choose the Stratocaster over other guitars are:

1. Stratocaster always cut through the mix against loud bass and drums. They have a much brighter sound than the Gibsons - (depending on the pick-ups of course).

2. Stratocasters are light and easy on the shoulders.

3. Stratocaster look cool - whereas hollow bodies like the ES-335 look bloated and old fashioned.

The downsides of a Strat for me is the sustain, and the tone - which I think isn't as rich as a Tele and doesn't have the acoustic velvety warmth of a ES-335. Lastly, of course the single coil hum on vintage strats - which is very annoying.
Almost all the great blues players play Strats for the reasons you describe - #1 because they cut through the mix. Bonamassa chose the Gibson, literally to be different(obviously he owns bunches of Strats too) and probably because of his mentor BB King.

I love Strats for all the reasons you stated, but they aren't the choice for everything, right. The ES-335 has a character that isn't comparable to a Strat. Great guitar in it's own right.

Captain Obvious out...
Old 1 week ago
  #141
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audioforce's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
I really don't get the Roland Synth Guitar association but OK.
Check it out.

Rare, Vintage Roland guitar synthesizer GR-300+ guitar G-303 (pat metheny model) | eBay


cheers,


audioforce
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Old 1 week ago
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimi777 View Post
Ok I try to generate some flame topics for you:
-Can a stratocaster do metal?
-Can an explorer do country?
-Is a telecaster with humbuckers still a telecaster?
-Why is the boss hypermetal discountinued?
-Is a Jazz Bass only for Jazz just like the name suggests?


Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
If you want Flames...you got it!

The most divisive emotional avalanche I've ever witnessed on GearSlutz was a tangent by some complete bonehead trying to assert that Music is not a Language... either that or whether it is right and proper for toilet paper to be installed to unravel from the top of the roll or from the bottom of the roll when any idiot knows bottom is best
Well, I am not looking for flames, just funny......

But allow me to respond to these important issues.

1. A Strat can do metal, just not through an amp sim of course.
2. An Explorer can do country, if the guitar is hidden from sight so that no one in the audience can see it [or even the other players, if possible].
3. A Telecaster with humbuckers is a Telecaster. A *****y sounding Telecaster [unless it has at least a regular Tele bridge pickup, then its O.K.].
4. The Boss Hypermetal was discontinued because, well let me get back to that............
5. The Jazz Bass is not only for Jazz, but you are required to already have a Precision before you can use it for Rock, and you need to have a damn good explanation as to why you are not using the Precision.


1. Music is not a language per se. Its way better.
2. Toilet paper can technically be used either way. From the bottom seems best, but women seem to favor it from the top because apparently its easier for them to unravel massive quantities at one time that way.


Your welcome, stay tuned,


audioforce
Old 1 week ago
  #143
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enorbet2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
Well... I suppose they DO both have 6 strings
Old 1 week ago
  #144
Quote:
Originally Posted by 64gtoboy View Post
What no ES 335 love?
I have plenty for my 1967 Trini Lopez. It's a 335 with diamond F holes and a in line headstock. It's like brand new looking. 10 out of 10 condition.

However, feeling that guitar strain under heavy SPL's and acoustic feedback doesn't give the glue joints a lot of love.
Old 1 week ago
  #145
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enorbet2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
I have plenty for my 1967 Trini Lopez. It's a 335 with diamond F holes and a in line headstock. It's like brand new looking. 10 out of 10 condition.

However, feeling that guitar strain under heavy SPL's and acoustic feedback doesn't give the glue joints a lot of love.
???? What problems of this nature have you experienced or imagined? Even hide glue joints last hundreds of years since most well done glue joints are stronger than the cellulose, lignin & pectin that bonds wood cells themselves to each other..
Old 1 week ago
  #146
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audioforce's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
I have plenty for my 1967 Trini Lopez. It's a 335 with diamond F holes and a in line headstock. It's like brand new looking. 10 out of 10 condition.
Now are they diamond, or are they F? Diamond holes, or F holes? Or does she have F holes made of diamonds? Or Diamond encrusted F Holes? That would be cool.

Or maybe one Diamond Hole, and one F Hole. I dunno, it gets confusing if you think about it.


audioforce
Old 1 week ago
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
If you want Flames...you got it!

The most divisive emotional avalanche I've ever witnessed on GearSlutz was a tangent by some complete bonehead trying to assert that Music is not a Language...
I remember that one. I rather enjoyed it, as it goes - led me to do a fair bit of research into some of the further reaches of musicology, psychology and philosophy. Which is ironic, given that he spent a fair amount of time telling me (and everyone else) that I had a closed mind and couldn't understand his ideas because he had a... (gasp) degree
Old 1 week ago
  #148
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
???? What problems of this nature have you experienced or imagined? Even hide glue joints last hundreds of years since most well done glue joints are stronger than the cellulose, lignin & pectin that bonds wood cells themselves to each other..
I've seen ES 335's split apart in Hawaii. Being seen, I have no desire to risk vibrating that collectable 1967 Trini Lopez under very high SPL's. That guitar feels like it's straining.

I have other stuff for that situation. The Trini gets babied. Telecasters are abused successfully.
Old 1 week ago
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
I've seen ES 335's split apart in Hawaii. Being seen, I have no desire to risk vibrating that collectable 1967 Trini Lopez under very high SPL's. That guitar feels like it's straining.

I have other stuff for that situation. The Trini gets babied. Telecasters are abused successfully.
Certainly you should follow your own instincts as there is something to possibly gain and almost nothing to lose by babying your Trini. I'm just curious. You said "335s". Was it actually multiple or just one? and do you think climate was a factor or did it seem SPL was a contributing factor in each case? or are you just (possibly justifiably) gun shy and choosing to err, if at all, on the side of caution?
Old 6 days ago
  #150
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audioforce's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
I've seen ES 335's split apart in Hawaii. Being seen, I have no desire to risk vibrating that collectable 1967 Trini Lopez under very high SPL's. That guitar feels like it's straining.

I have other stuff for that situation. The Trini gets babied. Telecasters are abused successfully.
Respectfully, is this a joke? You have seen guitars explode? Or implode? Or otherwise just "fall apart"? Just due to playing them loud?

So how the f*ck loud do you play, man? Louder than Ted Nugent or Blue Cheer or something? I used to play my ancient Byrdland through a cranked V-4. It would vibrate a little when feeding back at a "low resonance", but I don't remember it ever feeling like it was going to disintegrate.

I guess anything's possible, but I think you may be overly apprehensive. Not that I want anything to happen to your guitar, so YMMV.


cheers,

audioforce
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