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Behringer are at it again.
Old 5th June 2010
  #61
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lordnielson's Avatar
 

Let's say you've written 10 songs. It has taken you 2 years of unpaid work, during which time debts may have amassed.
Release the songs hoping you'll make even a modest return from the $1 per song you're gonna charge.

Somebody (with no talent of his own for songwriting) rerecords them using a Les Paul instead of a Strat but none the less creates a complete replica and lists them at $0.50 per track.

The general public wonders why it should pay double for the same thing. thumbsup
Old 5th June 2010
  #62
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordnielson View Post
Somebody (with no talent of his own for songwriting) rerecords them using a Les Paul instead of a Strat but none the less creates a complete replica and lists them at $0.50 per track.

If someone else can make a *complete replica* of your music, you seriously need to work on finding your unique voice!

Regardless, though, the outcome is predictable: neither of you will make any money trying to sell songs. heh


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 5th June 2010
  #63
Gear Head
 
jeremytheboring's Avatar
 

I'm not a frequent guitar player, but my best friend is, and my house is the official place of music.

Sitting next to one another in the room I'm in are a Matchless DC-30 and a Bugera V-22. Obviously they are different sounding amps and are intended to be, but I don't dislike the Bugera at all in the face of the Matchless.

On the topic of reliability, it has never had an issue, although it rarely moves more than 10' from its current location.

David (the best friend) talks pretty openly about how much he likes it.

Elsewhere I've experienced mixed result with Behringer, I have a 1991-92 era stereo compressor of theirs (Composer, non-Pro) which is good for particular duties and has never had a quality issue, and the same with a V-Verb. I also have a Eurorack UB2442FX mixer that is absolute pure unadulterated garbage and has been nearly unusable due to noise since a month after acquisition.
Old 6th June 2010
  #64
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theGeek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by octatonic View Post
They rank slightly below most politicians but a bit more than pedophiles, mormons and people who talk at the theatre.
wow... you rank Mormons with pedophiles... isn't bigotry fun.
Old 6th June 2010
  #65
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octatonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by theGeek View Post
wow... you rank Mormons with pedophiles... isn't bigotry fun.
Are you serious? It was a joke.
Lighten up, Francis.

FWIW, I rank Mormons slightly below pedophiles but above people who talk at the theatre. heh
Old 6th June 2010
  #66
Jax
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<unsubscribe>
Old 9th June 2010
  #67
Right on

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Hughes View Post
Personally all I care about is how they sound.
The 333 and 333XL models have proven themselves to be good amps and MANY people prefer them over the amps they copy.
I own the 333XL personally and I prefer it over the JSX despite the fact the JSX costs 3 times more (In Australia).
If you lived in Australia like I did, stuff like the Dual Recto just aren't feasible purchases. We are talking more than 4 grand here, I **** you not.
Right on . The tyranny of distance. Guitars - I'm left handed, do you know how much more that **** costs because I'm a leftie and live in Australia. Ditto for most amps. I bought a left handed Gibson Les Paul in 1969. I was gettin paid around $20.00 per week. The guitar cost around 40 weeks wages. I had to quit my job to collect a payout (long service leave in those days) to buy the sucker. I still have the guitar and I'm glad I did it, as it was a once in a lifetime chance and I was single and carefree. Bought a Fender Telecaster two years ago, only paid 1 month's wages. Just looked at the cost of a Gibson Les Paul Custom 50th Anniversary Gold Top online. It's priced at $AU14,999.00. That to me is total and utter bull****. No guitar is worth that. Les Paul Standard 2008 at $AU5,499.00 is overpriced. Especially when American Fender Strats are half the price, my next toy hopefully. I shall grovel to the wife.
I love great guitars, I despise being ripped off.
Old 9th June 2010
  #68
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b0ssa's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by garryspicer View Post
Right on . The tyranny of distance. Guitars - I'm left handed, do you know how much more that **** costs because I'm a leftie and live in Australia. Ditto for most amps. I bought a left handed Gibson Les Paul in 1969. I was gettin paid around $20.00 per week. The guitar cost around 40 weeks wages. I had to quit my job to collect a payout (long service leave in those days) to buy the sucker. I still have the guitar and I'm glad I did it, as it was a once in a lifetime chance and I was single and carefree. Bought a Fender Telecaster two years ago, only paid 1 month's wages. Just looked at the cost of a Gibson Les Paul Custom 50th Anniversary Gold Top online. It's priced at $AU14,999.00. That to me is total and utter bull****. No guitar is worth that. Les Paul Standard 2008 at $AU5,499.00 is overpriced. Especially when American Fender Strats are half the price, my next toy hopefully. I shall grovel to the wife.
I love great guitars, I despise being ripped off.
I live in OZ too and I bought a Custom Shop 57 Gold Top VOS a couple of months ago for $3900 from a local store - the RRP was $7249 at the time. The owner likes my playing and felt like doing me a favour so he sold it for his cost price - one I am very thankful for. This guitar is easily better than my old 1972 Gold Top Deluxe and is just a wonderful thing to play and behold. My standard live Les Paul for the past 16 years though, has been a Fernandes Super Grade Honey Sunburst model which craps on a 'normal' Les Paul but is not quite as nice as the Custom-Shop Gold Top in finish (too thick a poly finish rather than Nitro) but in every other way it's pretty close. Fernandes (or Burny) made great guitars and they were way cheaper BUT better quality than Gibsons of the time (80's & 90's). More expensive is not always better.
Old 9th June 2010
  #69
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octatonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0ssa View Post
I live in OZ too and I bought a Custom Shop 57 Gold Top VOS a couple of months ago for $3900 from a local store - the RRP was $7249 at the time. The owner likes my playing and felt like doing me a favour so he sold it for his cost price - one I am very thankful for.
Sales guys use that ALL the time as a tactic.
If shops sell guitars for cost they go out of business.
Thinking you are a special case is the way that make you feel better about buying, to nudge you towards buying.

There has to be something else going- more than likely he bought a few at once and got himself an extra discount.

You still got a good price though.
Old 9th June 2010
  #70
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b0ssa's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by octatonic View Post
Sales guys use that ALL the time as a tactic.
If shops sell guitars for cost they go out of business.
Thinking you are a special case is the way that make you feel better about buying, to nudge you towards buying.

There has to be something else going- more than likely he bought a few at once and got himself an extra discount.

You still got a good price though.
Yes I realize that but I know for a fact I bought it at his buy price.
Old 9th June 2010
  #71
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sleeper1400's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertshaw View Post
weird lots of people have a problem with behringer but all the Neve cloners, api cloners etc... get a pass. Makes no sense

thumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

kaboom. end of thread.

people have no problem when NI, IK multimedia, Waves and ______
come out with GTR emulators and 1176 plugins either.

behringer makes some genelic knockoffs and people cry sacrilege.

im calling bull****!
Old 13th June 2010
  #72
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Absolute's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by octatonic View Post
I am no fan of Behringer at all.
(Hell, I started this thread.)

The 'copying designs' thing is tricky.
How many guitar manufacturers can copy the basic Fender/Gibson designs?
Exactly....if people were actually educated they would know that most every amp is a copy just as almost every Pop song is a copy. I think its just that behringer goes one step further in that they copy the look as well. Many copy just the look--many copy just the internal design.

The Soldano specs can be found in almost every high gain amp as well.
Old 27th January 2011
  #73
Gear Head
 

Delayed response

I'm in the camp of "if it sounds good and is reliable then I don't care what name is on it or where it was made".
Although I don't have much choice in the matter.

Coming from South Africa, I feel the Aussies pain at getting ripped off.

For all you Americans on here, I would like to explain our prices like this:

Take your full retail price... now double it... now add 14% tax and international shipping charges... now, instead of multiplying the the US dollar by 7 to get the value in South African Rands, multiply it by 10.

...those are the prices we pay here.

I've ordered 2 Bugera amps (BC30 & 6262 2x12) for less than the price of 1 Dual Rec head, so I'll come back and post my thoughts on them once I've had some time to mess around.
I'm a gigging muso so I'll put them through their paces and report back
Old 27th January 2011
  #74
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeper1400 View Post
thumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

kaboom. end of thread.

people have no problem when NI, IK multimedia, Waves and ______
come out with GTR emulators and 1176 plugins either.

behringer makes some genelic knockoffs and people cry sacrilege.

im calling bull****!
to wit
Behringer LOVE thread...
Old 3rd February 2011
  #75
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An interesting thought for you all.

Where exactly do you think Leo Fender and Doc Kaufmann and all the other early pioneers got their circuits from?

The tube manufacturers put out reams of documents and schematics as suggested circuits for using their products in various different roles.

ALL ALL ALLLLLL the "original" audio amps were copies of these circuits, just as the RCA drawings for speaker enclosures formed the basis of ALL the early P.A. and theatre sound enclosures.

You guys should get over it.
Behringer are not doing anything new here at all.
I personally find it laughable that manufacturers have the nerve to sue over so called patent infringements when in most cases the patent is largely spurious, the operating principles usually being either derivative of or based entirely on an existing standard methodology.

Now copyright based on a particular LOOK is a different matter, of course.

So lets just say that Behringer/Bugera`s take on a class A valve/tube amp with a couple of EL84s in it is cheaper built than Matchless`s or Vox`s.


Or is it?

Last edited by ivansc; 3rd February 2011 at 10:16 AM.. Reason: 2nd thoughts about vfm
Old 3rd February 2011
  #76
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lordnielson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
An interesting thought for you all.

Where exactly do you think Leo Fender and Doc Kaufmann and all the other early pioneers got their circuits from?

The tube manufacturers put out reams of documents and schematics as suggested circuits for using their products in various different roles.

ALL ALL ALLLLLL the "original" audio amps were copies of these circuits, just as the RCA drawings for speaker enclosures formed the basis of ALL the early P.A. and theatre sound enclosures.

You guys should get over it.
Behringer are not doing anything new here at all.
I personally find it laughable that manufacturers have the nerve to sue over so called patent infringements when in most cases the patent is largely spurious, the operating principles usually being either derivative of or based entirely on an existing standard methodology.

Now copyright based on a particular LOOK is a different matter, of course.

So lets just say that Behringer/Bugera`s take on a class A valve/tube amp with a couple of EL84s in it is cheaper built than Matchless`s or Vox`s.


Or is it?
1:1 copies vs improvements are two very different things.
Old 3rd February 2011
  #77
Lives for gear
There's also a big difference between all of the AC30 flavors (Matchless, Top Hat, Dr. Z Stang Ray) that borrow from the original Vox AC30, but can sound as good/better, but are also reliable, to the point of being more reliable than the originals. And you pay more for that reliability.

Behringer tends to copy things and while they do sometimes add their own innovation, low quality comes at their low price. On the pro audio side and PA side, it's much more blatant in their copying, but the stuff blows up more often; except for their EP series copies of QSC power amps, which hold up for most.

If Behringer/Bugera ever can figure out how to keep their price structure, feature count and improve quality it could be interesting for a lot of people. Until they figure out the quality control (which costs more) they will have a certain segment of the market and not more.

On Leo Fender copying - yes, he borrowed liberally from Radio service manuals to figure out what works when he started, but then kept innovating and changing after that - he had to start somewhere. Behringer is a mature company that continues to shamelessly copy other's designs because they want to be the low-cost provider for mass market. If your R&D costs are low and your quality control is low to non-existent, you can afford to sell your products cheap.

Then again, if Behringer came out tomorrow with an expensive amp that was as reliable as their expensive counterparts, they'd face ridicule because no one would want to spend that much on a brand that's got poor quality associated with it. It's a long road for them if they choose to take it.
Old 27th June 2011
  #78
When I was beginning with music I thanked Behringer for being there, yup lot's of stuff died, but handeld with care you could do a long period.

For poeple for who it is just a hobby there is no need to buy expensive expensive stuff, so behringer's scope isn't for the professional user but more for the hobbiest!!!
Old 27th June 2011
  #79
Lives for gear
 

Dont care what the name on the box says, but I thought that the demo video for the TRIREC sounded very good to me.

TRIREC Link


Yeah, Behringer rip off everyone, but then again, everyone rips off everyone to some extent. You think that band you're recording at the moment are 100% original? Pffft!


And occasionally, when the planets align in certain ways, Behringer are capable of producing something thats actually regarded as very good for a rock bottom price: case in point, their ADA80000 unit.

Just sayin....
Old 30th June 2011
  #80
Lives for gear
I have to say I have always been scared of anything by Behringer just seemed like such a cheese brand, they make Bugara??? That is news.


some of you guys have too much money, 10K on an amp, my wife would kill me in my sleep

reminds me of the prices of Les Paul's, 5K to 19K for a PRS, are you kidding me??

must be nice

If I got to drop 2K on an amp head I would probably pee myself with giddiness.

Is Jet City any good? That 50watt head looks nice for $500, I was thinking of getting 2 of those for a stereo setup.


I wish more companies would lighten up on the credit thing and allow payments without having to get an impossible card.

AMS has 3 payments no credit, no finance charge, and ZZsounds does 4, pretty cool but limited selections. Still limits me to my budget of 200 mo max, I cannot get a killer amp head in my range.
Old 30th June 2011
  #81
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkhorse View Post
Still limits me to my budget of 200 mo max, I cannot get a killer amp head in my range.

Save the money for 3 or 4 months, then buy a kit and have a local tech or amp guru build it for you. For $600 I had a local guy build me a 50's Tweed that's a dead ringer, next up is an old Princeton clone. He expounds at length on the power transformers, I wait patiently for the tone monster to come home to papa.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 4th July 2011
  #82
RiF
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RiF's Avatar
I don't get it... In the parent forum, everybody raves about Neve preamp clones (the closer the better!) and Bugera gets bashed for stealing a design
Old 5th July 2011
  #83
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lordnielson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiF View Post
I don't get it... In the parent forum, everybody raves about Neve preamp clones (the closer the better!) and Bugera gets bashed for stealing a design
Old designs that have had their time and seen sufficient returns vs a company spending wages, research/developement time and supplies cost to launch a new product that then gets reverse engineered, mass produced and sold at a "killer" price by Behringer.

That'll bring down the best, and then who will innovatively design future gear ?
Old 5th July 2011
  #84
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Apprentice's Avatar
 

Do you guys remember Gibson sued PRS for copying its Les Paul design?

The Gibson's beef was that PRS Single Cut guitar design was a rip-off of Les Paul. However, the court ruled against Gibson because as long as the general consumers are able to distinguish between those two models, it's somehow ok. For example, Takamine used to copy Martin's headstock, as Ibanez did with Gibson's. These headstocks were so similar they were indistinguishable unless you read the small prints on them. Later, Takamine & Ibanez had to change their headstocks after their respective lawsuits.

I guess US Supreme Court thought "copying" or "ripping off" designs matter more VISUALLY than what's inside. Of course, if Behringer violated Mesa's patent stuff, then it should pay its due. But who here was NOT ABLE to distinguish between the Bugera and Matchless amps that were previously posted? (I'm not trying to defend Behringer, but just trying to understand why it is still around w/o getting all the lawsuits.)

Again, copying Neve clones is probably permissible as long as the chassis are different LOOKING.

My .02
Old 5th July 2011
  #85
Just heard the Trirec head, I am most certainly going to buy one, this thing sounds great!
Old 5th July 2011
  #86
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ksandvik's Avatar
 

You pay for what you get with Behringer gear. On a positive note, it's cheap to replace broken Behringer units with another one of the same kind.
Old 5th July 2011
  #87
Lives for gear
And there in lies the rub - Behringer is cheaper, but if you have to buy 2 -3 as many because they break down, it's not cheaper in the long run.

Buy once, cry once.
Old 5th July 2011
  #88
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Earthling's Avatar
 

I made the huge mistake of buying a Behringer mixer Mackie rippoff in an attempt to save a few bucks-NEVER AGAIN will I buy there sheeeeit!


Aaaaaaaaaaa.....that's better....I needed to vent .....thanks!
Old 6th July 2011
  #89
RiF
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
Just heard the Trirec head, I am most certainly going to buy one, this thing sounds great!
Don't know the exact prices in EU, but heard something like EUR 1000. I went for a used Mesa DualRec for EUR 1200 instead and got the real thing.
But... I also have a Bugera 6260 (5150 clone) for EUR 277 new!
Old 12th February 2013
  #90
Gear Maniac
 
Mikeitloud's Avatar
hey, I just aquired a Bugera 1990 head and a peavey 412 slant cab for $275.00.It's 3 years old,but in like new condition, I could'nt pass it up, i've had it for about a week and a half, I have to say i've never owned any Behringer products, so this is more of an experiment. It has a power mode switch for triode mode 60w or pentode mode for 120w. I've only tried the triode mode and I have to say it sounds pretty awsome! for what I paid, if it dies in a year, it'll have been worth it. here is a direct comparison to the JCM900,

Bugera 1990 vs. Marshall JCM 900 Shoot-out TTK Style !!! Amp Review Demo NAMM 2010 '10 - YouTube
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