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Replacing speakers in my Marshall 4x12 1960A question
Old 18th August 2008
  #1
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Replacing speakers in my Marshall 4x12 1960A question

Howdy,

I got a great deal on a cool (and extremely funky) 1960A 300W cab for the studio. It has Celestion G12-75's in it. From what I've read these are not the cat's meow. So I'm thinking about putting in some Greenbacks or v30's.

My question is this: can I replace just 1 or 2 of the speakers? Or does it have to be all of them? Do people ever mix and match to have some choices for close micing? Is it mostly a matter of calculating and matching the impedance?

School me. Thanks.
Old 20th August 2008
  #2
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many people mix and match, two types in a 4x12 in x pattern. Greenbacks and V30's are extremely common. If you're going to mix other speakers, check the sensitivity in db. if they are off by 3db one will be twice as loud, though for close miking if you're dimed right at the speaker its not so bad, and you can just adjust the input gain on each mic. if you're further away or using it as backline in a live gig obviously it will matter. im assuming you know about impedance and wattage, thats an easy google. watch the phase when you install, it can suck the sound out if you dont have it right.
Old 20th August 2008
  #3
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Thanks for the reply! That's great to hear, and the x-pattern is interesting.

And yeah, I can look up the impedances and figure that out. Thanks! She's gonna be sweet...
Old 3rd September 2008
  #4
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I think I have the same cab... 1960a... not sure what speakers I have to be honest. My buddy bought it, and I just always had it in my studio till I outright bought it off him.

I run my Marshall JCM 2000 head into it, and I'm not pleased at all. I then hooked the head up to a Mesa Recto cab and bought a new version of the cab shortly after. Mesa cabs > Marshall in almost every shootout I've done.
Old 3rd September 2008
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fooman View Post
I think I have the same cab... 1960a... not sure what speakers I have to be honest. My buddy bought it, and I just always had it in my studio till I outright bought it off him.

I run my Marshall JCM 2000 head into it, and I'm not pleased at all. I then hooked the head up to a Mesa Recto cab and bought a new version of the cab shortly after. Mesa cabs > Marshall in almost every shootout I've done.
Easily explained.
Marshall 1960a cabs use G12-75 speakers, which are perfectly fine but not the sound people expect to hear.
Mesa use Vintage 30 speakers in all their 4x12 cabs (except the roadking cab, which has 2 x V30's and 2 x C90's.)

V30's or Greenbacks breakup in a musical pleasing way. They just have 'that sound'.
Personally I love greenbacks, but something to be aware of is they are a 25 watt speaker.
V30's are a 60 watt speaker.
You have more headroom in a V30 loaded cabinet, which some people prefer.

To the OP- 4 x V30's are around $480 if you buy new.
You might find it is more cost effective to sell you existing cab and buy something with V30's in it already.
I've replaced the G12-75's in a Marshall 2x12 with V30's and it was a good idea at the time.
Old 3rd September 2008
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octatonic View Post
Easily explained.
Marshall 1960a cabs use G12-75 speakers, which are perfectly fine but not the sound people expect to hear.
Mesa use Vintage 30 speakers in all their 4x12 cabs (except the roadking cab, which has 2 x V30's and 2 x C90's.)

V30's or Greenbacks breakup in a musical pleasing way. They just have 'that sound'.
Personally I love greenbacks, but something to be aware of is they are a 25 watt speaker.
V30's are a 60 watt speaker.
You have more headroom in a V30 loaded cabinet, which some people prefer.

To the OP- 4 x V30's are around $480 if you buy new.
You might find it is more cost effective to sell you existing cab and buy something with V30's in it already.
I've replaced the G12-75's in a Marshall 2x12 with V30's and it was a good idea at the time.
Awesome explaination. Thank you.
Old 5th September 2008
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octatonic View Post
Easily explained.
Marshall 1960a cabs use G12-75 speakers, which are perfectly fine but not the sound people expect to hear.
Mesa use Vintage 30 speakers in all their 4x12 cabs (except the roadking cab, which has 2 x V30's and 2 x C90's.)

V30's or Greenbacks breakup in a musical pleasing way. They just have 'that sound'.
Personally I love greenbacks, but something to be aware of is they are a 25 watt speaker.
V30's are a 60 watt speaker.
You have more headroom in a V30 loaded cabinet, which some people prefer.

To the OP- 4 x V30's are around $480 if you buy new.
You might find it is more cost effective to sell you existing cab and buy something with V30's in it already.
I've replaced the G12-75's in a Marshall 2x12 with V30's and it was a good idea at the time.
Yeah, thanks for that. That's sort of what I've gleaned about the g12-75's.

So, I was just looking at a V30 and it says nominal impedance is 8 ohms and 16 ohms. I think the G12-75's are 8 ohms. Can I get just one or two V30's and do a straight swap? Thanks.
Old 12th September 2008
  #8
84K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octatonic View Post
Easily explained.
V30's or Greenbacks breakup in a musical pleasing way. They just have 'that sound'.
Personally I love greenbacks, but something to be aware of is they are a 25 watt speaker.
V30's are a 60 watt speaker..
V30's are a 30 watt speaker. I am sure it was a type-o. The Heritage 30's are my favorite speakers Celestion has made to date.
Old 12th September 2008
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 84K View Post
V30's are a 30 watt speaker. I am sure it was a type-o. The Heritage 30's are my favorite speakers Celestion has made to date.
You might want to tell Celestion that as they believe it to be a 60w speaker.
Trust me, the V30 is a 60w speaker:

GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS
Nominal diameter 12", 305mm
Power Rating 60W
Nominal impedance 8Ω and 16Ω
Sensitivity 100dB
Chassis type Pressed steel
Voice coil diameter 1.75", 44.5mm
Voice coil material Round copper
Magnet type Ceramic
Magnet weight 50oz, 1.42kg
Frequency range 70-5000Hz
Resonance frequency, Fs 75Hz
DC resistance, Re 7.3Ω & 12.9Ω

Check their site.

Tried the Alnico Gold's?
They are really nice.
Old 12th September 2008
  #10
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So can anyone give me some insight on this:

I was just looking at a V30 and it says nominal impedance is 8 ohms AND 16 ohms. I think the G12-75's are 8 ohms. Can I get just one or two V30's and do a straight swap?
Old 12th September 2008
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by telejustin View Post
So can anyone give me some insight on this:

I was just looking at a V30 and it says nominal impedance is 8 ohms AND 16 ohms. I think the G12-75's are 8 ohms. Can I get just one or two V30's and do a straight swap?
Yes, you can- but be aware that the speakers perform differently.
You might like it- but you might not.
Old 13th September 2008
  #12
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I have a pair of G12-75s that sound phenomenal... especially clean!!
Old 13th September 2008
  #13
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I think Hiwatt sell cabs with the Celestions as well as other cabs with Fanes. The Fanes are more appropriate for a mid-forward British tone but plenty of people seem to love the Celestions. They're probably quite good for this wishy-washy stuff that's passing for rock these days. (CHRIS MARTIN IS THE DEVIL'S CHOIRBOY.)
Old 13th September 2008
  #14
84K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octatonic View Post
You might want to tell Celestion that as they believe it to be a 60w speaker.
Trust me, the V30 is a 60w speaker:

GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS
Nominal diameter 12", 305mm
Power Rating 60W
Nominal impedance 8Ω and 16Ω
Sensitivity 100dB
Chassis type Pressed steel
Voice coil diameter 1.75", 44.5mm
Voice coil material Round copper
Magnet type Ceramic
Magnet weight 50oz, 1.42kg
Frequency range 70-5000Hz
Resonance frequency, Fs 75Hz
DC resistance, Re 7.3Ω & 12.9Ω

Check their site.

Tried the Alnico Gold's?
They are really nice.

Run a 50w Marshall JCM 800 into one of G12 30 and let me know how long your speakers lasts ;-)

They can handle 30w with overs. A 100w amp easily has peaks of 140w +.
You are 100% correct, but I would not trust that math.
Old 13th September 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 84K View Post
Run a 50w Marshall JCM 800 into one of G12 30 and let me know how long your speakers lasts ;-)

They can handle 30w with overs. A 100w amp easily has peaks of 140w +.
You are 100% correct, but I would not trust that math.
Yes, this is correct as well.
I always over-rate the cab by at least 50%- IE use a speaker box capable of 150 watts for a 100w amp.

I wouldn't use a single V30 with a 50w amp, but two of them would be fine.
I wouldn't use two with a 100 watt amp either- not regularly anyway.
Old 14th September 2008
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octatonic View Post
Yes, this is correct as well.
I always over-rate the cab by at least 50%- IE use a speaker box capable of 150 watts for a 100w amp.

I wouldn't use a single V30 with a 50w amp, but two of them would be fine.
I wouldn't use two with a 100 watt amp either- not regularly anyway.
absolutely
Old 14th November 2008
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by telejustin View Post
So can anyone give me some insight on this:

I was just looking at a V30 and it says nominal impedance is 8 ohms AND 16 ohms. I think the G12-75's are 8 ohms. Can I get just one or two V30's and do a straight swap?
Don't know if this is still interesting for you but the stock G12-75 in the Marshall 1960a cab are 16 Ohm so you need 16 Ohm Vintage 30s as a replacement!
Old 15th November 2008
  #18
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It is still interesting... So when you buy V30's, do you have your choice between 8 and 16 ohm?
Old 16th November 2008
  #19
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Yes, and for a standard Marshall 1960a you should use the 16 Ohm version. Otherwise the impedance is lowered 50%
Old 17th November 2008
  #20
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g12h30...55 hertz...30 watt

this is the "classic marshall" speaker...imho..ymmv
Old 16th March 2018
  #21
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I had a JCM 800 with these. A guy in Cleveland put in el 34s, an effects loop and tamed the high end on the pre-amp. Sounded like all the records I listened to growing up and had the brown sound in spades at just about any volume with hot pickups in my Kramer Focus. I know Eddy used PAFs but Duncan Distortions were magic in that set up. Sounded like god talking!
Old 16th March 2018
  #22
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Originally Posted by latestflavor View Post
If you're going to mix other speakers, check the sensitivity in db. if they are off by 3db one will be twice as loud, though for close miking if you're dimed right at the speaker its not so bad, and you can just adjust the input gain on each mic.
Hearing is logarithmic so 3db is audible and equivalent to doubling of amplifier wattage but is not twice as loud. You would need a 10db change to be perceived as 2x louder. That said matching sensitivity is a good thing.
Old 16th March 2018
  #23
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Me, I like the G12-75. I use them in a 2x12 ported cabinet I built, and they sound great. As to impedance, have you looked at the speakers in your cab? They probably state the impedance somewhere on them.

For the question about the 8/16 ohm specs, I believe they stated it that way because both 8 and 16 ohm versions are available.
Old 17th March 2018
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by telejustin View Post
So can anyone give me some insight on this:

I was just looking at a V30 and it says nominal impedance is 8 ohms AND 16 ohms. I think the G12-75's are 8 ohms. Can I get just one or two V30's and do a straight swap?
They mean that the speaker is available in your choice of impedances, not that one speaker can be either.
Old 17th March 2018
  #25
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It is vastly simpler, and usually more pleasing to match impedance. 2 x 12s @ 8 ohms each combined with 2 x 12s @ 16 ohms each in a cab originally wired as series-parallel presents a significant wiring conundrum. The possible combinations are many and few of them properly balanced.

I don't know if they still make it but Mesa used to make an interesting "mixed": cabinet which featured 2 x EVM-12Ls in a closed back, separated bottom of a 4 x 12 cab, and 2 x Celestion 12s in the upper, isolated section that were either open-backed or closed by user choice. BUT please note they were acoustically separated by matching pairs and all impedances matched. *See Edit below

Here's a moderately useful comparison of the speakers (not the Mesa)



Edit: I see now that the Mesa cab has changed slightly in that it no longer comes as user switchable open vs/ closed top section unless you make a new back board.

--- Road King 4 x 12 ---
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