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Guitarists - Show me your pedalboard! Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 6th August 2012
  #961
Lives for gear
 



Quote:
Originally Posted by darkhorse View Post
Nice array of tone options happening there.
Could you guys please just toss a brief list, I cannot always figure out what some pedal are. How is that Analogman dual drive?
The signal chain is as follows: TC Electronics Polytune > Loop Master Dual Loop {Loop A: Analogman NKT Sunface > Fridgebuzzz Land of the Rising Fuzz > Zvex Fuzz Factory > Analogman Beano Boost} | {Loop B: Black Cat OD-Fuzz > Analogman King of Tone} > Sweet Sound Mojovibe > Lehle Dual SGoS {Buffer always on} | {Loop A: Boss DM-2 Analog Delay} | {Loop B: Boss DD-2 Digital Delay} > Boss DD-6 > Demeter Tremulator > T1M Mute Switch > Zvex SHO (off screen, used to split the signal into 2 amps).

The King of Tone (dual drive) is amazing and is the best low gain OD / Clean Boost I've ever used. Sounds very similar to just cranking up my amp naturally, with a bit of extra push when needed.
Old 7th August 2012
  #962
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikoo69 View Post




The signal chain is as follows: TC Electronics Polytune > Loop Master Dual Loop {Loop A: Analogman NKT Sunface > Fridgebuzzz Land of the Rising Fuzz > Zvex Fuzz Factory > Analogman Beano Boost} | {Loop B: Black Cat OD-Fuzz > Analogman King of Tone} > Sweet Sound Mojovibe > Lehle Dual SGoS {Buffer always on} | {Loop A: Boss DM-2 Analog Delay} | {Loop B: Boss DD-2 Digital Delay} > Boss DD-6 > Demeter Tremulator > T1M Mute Switch > Zvex SHO (off screen, used to split the signal into 2 amps).

The King of Tone (dual drive) is amazing and is the best low gain OD / Clean Boost I've ever used. Sounds very similar to just cranking up my amp naturally, with a bit of extra push when needed.

Very cool, nicely done, some thought went into that config to be sure. That dual drive sounds like one I would like as I do not like gainy drives in general and what I love about the Wampler is its transparent and open feel.
Old 7th August 2012
  #963
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah330 View Post
Oh come on a Klon..that is just not fair !! Been wanting to try one of those JHS clones as I cannot possibly afford the real deal.

Recently saw Joe Perry's effects drawer: had a silver Klon and one of those Pigtronix Disnortion a 3 in one unit. That thing looks pretty interesting, and not a bad price. Octave into OD and Fuzz. OD and Fuzz wired parallel instead of series. Octave can get into some cool ring mod tones very Jeff Beck cool. Fuzz has several EQ switch settings. Anyone test driven one of these???
Old 7th August 2012
  #964
Lives for gear
 
camerondye's Avatar
 

I am a bass player in my band but this is my photoshopped picture of my collection from my home studio...I love guitar pedals.

Old 8th August 2012
  #965
Lives for gear
One wonders what you do with them as a bass player???
No bass pedals?
Old 8th August 2012
  #966
Lives for gear
 
camerondye's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkhorse View Post
One wonders what you do with them as a bass player??? No bass pedals?
I like to have them for recording. There are 6 in there if you look hard. go ahead and try...it's like a Where's Waldo puzzle.
Old 9th August 2012
  #967
my pedalboard

these aren't all hooked up obviously but its just the collection. I keep them all for sale online and just use whatever I have in stock.Attachment 304253
Old 9th August 2012
  #968
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by camerondye View Post
I like to have them for recording. There are 6 in there if you look hard. go ahead and try...it's like a Where's Waldo puzzle.
I see one, maybe 2 it is a great puzzle. Next time my wife has a fit about my pedal addiction I will show her this picture, "see I do not have this many".
Old 9th August 2012
  #969
Lives for gear
 
camerondye's Avatar
 

Most are in the top left of the picture even though a ton of the guitar pedals work great with bass also:

Aguilar Tone Hammer Bass Preamp
Fishman Bass Preamp
MarkBass Super Synth
Sansamp Bass Driver
EBS BassIQ
EH Bass Mig Muff (bottom left)

All the pedals are velcro'd to the wall in my home studio so they are very very accessible quickly. I also have 5 combo amps (DC50, JCM800, Old Princeton, Rebel30, AC15). Getting good guitar tones is so much easier when you have the right stuff.
Old 9th August 2012
  #970
Here for the gear
 
osirisguitar's Avatar
My modest board...


Pedal Board by Anders Bornholm, on Flickr
Old 9th August 2012
  #971
Here for the gear
 

Hey darkhorse, I apologize for the like 6 bashing before. I have a dl4 which I love and just received a line 6 m5.
This this is fantastic for adding modulation, reverb and delay to my signal. The dirt sounds at garbage, but line 6 had never made great sounding dirt pedals.
I love to octo reverb and all the tap-able phasers, Flangers, tremolo, choruses, it's like having a ton other "one song use" pedals in one casing. I also love that I can save the presets
Old 10th August 2012
  #972
Lives for gear
 
noah330's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkhorse View Post
Oh come on a Klon..that is just not fair !! Been wanting to try one of those JHS clones as I cannot possibly afford the real deal.

Recently saw Joe Perry's effects drawer: had a silver Klon and one of those Pigtronix Disnortion a 3 in one unit. That thing looks pretty interesting, and not a bad price. Octave into OD and Fuzz. OD and Fuzz wired parallel instead of series. Octave can get into some cool ring mod tones very Jeff Beck cool. Fuzz has several EQ switch settings. Anyone test driven one of these???
I paid $239 for all four of my Klon pedals. I bought them before there were gear forums. I really like them but paying $1000+ seems crazy - although if all of mine were stolen I prob would as I really like the sound.

Yet to hear a clone that sounds as good.
Old 10th August 2012
  #973
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah330 View Post
I paid $239 for all four of my Klon pedals. I bought them before there were gear forums. I really like them but paying $1000+ seems crazy - although if all of mine were stolen I prob would as I really like the sound.

Yet to hear a clone that sounds as good.
I am bloody envious of the KLON Centaur, $1000 is often low for one these days, pretty ridiculous, JHS claims he has the exact circuit and the A/B seems very close, allowing of course for component tolerances.
Everyone seems to think they can put two boxes at 12:00 and they will be the same, that is just not going to be the case. As science rules, 2 two things are never exactly identical, in the case of circuits and components that is too true. I doubt if 2 real KLONs side by side are the same knob wise.
The JHS is $300. That is a lot for me for a 3 knob drive which I really do not care for but the KLON is an exception. I am still curious about that Pigtronix as well.
Old 11th August 2012
  #974
Here for the gear
 

I know this isnt a pedalboard related thing, but still pretty cool, look who I had the opportunity to meet the other day.
Old 11th August 2012
  #975
Here for the gear
 

George Lynch !
Old 12th August 2012
  #976
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timwaldvogel View Post
Hey darkhorse, I apologize for the like 6 bashing before. I have a dl4 which I love and just received a line 6 m5.
This this is fantastic for adding modulation, reverb and delay to my signal. The dirt sounds at garbage, but line 6 had never made great sounding dirt pedals.
I love to octo reverb and all the tap-able phasers, Flangers, tremolo, choruses, it's like having a ton other "one song use" pedals in one casing. I also love that I can save the presets
Hey Timma, I was just thinking about you in my recent gear adventures.
I just retubed and bias set my half stack w Mullards and man the sound was just killer, plugged right into the amp and my God that puppy cranks. I was like god what will my pedals sound like and oh man my Wampler Pedals singing at full range and spectrum was just the best ever.

I thought hey I'll try and do that popular 4CM method of using the POD with an amp being able to split the effects/pedals at amp in and amp loop, seemed like a great idea, so setting aside my power amp rig for another experiment.
I rigged it up splitting the effects I wanted at amp in from amp loop. Then I got to the effects loop on the HD POD, what the fuuuuuuuuu, the level coming off the loop drops from 6-10db and nothing fixes it, and believe me I tried. Adding an EQ boost before the effect block out, even putting a class A clean boost in the loop front end to raise the level before it hit the pedals going to amp in (seemed like the most workable fix, turned into a noise fest). Nothing helped, the effects loop on the POD is useless. And even at my most uber gain and pedal use I do not need a noise gate on my rig and it became plain using one in the POD merely served to dampen its own noise floor not the rig.

Sooooo, no longer having my massive collection of modulation, delay and reverb. I resolved to put the POD totally in my amp loop and just configure presets with an array of different phase, flange, delays and reverbs now that works great. I can bypass the whole unit with one click and balanced the results A/B until there is unity gain and tone. Works great. Not using any amp models at the moment because my amp is just killing on its own channels and pedal options.

It made me get more into the reverb and delay options being able to set up a bunch of different units and using the footswitching and expression pedal options to really control the depth of the reverbs and delays. Works so good I am not worried about getting more pedals to remove it. Downside is I lost my cool amp in wah options and my harmonizer effects. I can bring them up in the loop but a sure means to show how some things belong in a chain and some don't, those who claim there are no rules apparently have crappy tone.

At any rate, another use for the HD POD. The unit is great as a standalone unit into a fullrange stereo power amp, and I prefer a guitar cab for the punch and depth. Or the unit is great for recording experiments and using amp and mic options. I find it a suburb unit for handling my modulation, delays and reverbs and once you find the models that sound the best it is hard to beat. The ability to create an infinite number of presets and the options of all the footwitches and expression pedals cannot be matched.

Anyway, new issue Mullard valves, amazing. I had been using Tung Sol but I think these are my go to tubes from now on. The preamp tubes just gave me what I was not getting on the Tung Sol maybe my imagination but that amp has never sounded better and the best sounding amp I have ever used.
Old 17th August 2012
  #977
Here for the gear
 

I really enjoy tune amps. I like having my amps clean until I strum as hard as I can and get a little bit of grit on the attack. Then I run all my pedals into the front.
I use the 4CM with my fender deville, but nottingham vintage push because it has no effects loop.
I wanna retube all of my amps with JJ 5751 tubes. 5751's are the best sounding preamp tube I've ever used. Even the cheaper chinese ones sound great. Despite their unreliability.
I am loving my M5 for Everything but grit. I might even use it for some delays and not my dl4 due to its convenient tap division control.
Old 17th August 2012
  #978
Here for the gear
 

Did this yesterday.
Old 18th August 2012
  #979
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timwaldvogel View Post
I really enjoy tune amps. I like having my amps clean until I strum as hard as I can and get a little bit of grit on the attack. Then I run all my pedals into the front.
I use the 4CM with my fender deville, but nottingham vintage push because it has no effects loop.
I wanna retube all of my amps with JJ 5751 tubes. 5751's are the best sounding preamp tube I've ever used. Even the cheaper chinese ones sound great. Despite their unreliability.
I am loving my M5 for Everything but grit. I might even use it for some delays and not my dl4 due to its convenient tap division control.
If you want to tone down the drive on your preamp the lower gain 5751s are great for that. A trick I first heard of from SRV, I hear all you need is a 5751 in V1 to get the benefit. I have run an entire set of 5751s (5) and they were OK, I was using JAN Phillips which are military grade. A good source for tubes and a lot of good info on what is out there is thetubestore.com out of Canada, reasonable prices and like a 1 day air delivery. I use them quite a bit. The new Tung Sol tubes are rated very high on all models. I tried the new Mullards and like them a lot. The preamp 12AX7s seem to be a little less bright and a little sterile than the Tung Sol but like most things it is all about the amp chemistry. The idea of the 5751 is that it is a lower gain preamp tube which in theory allows more push to the power amp tubes to try and make them distort more. SRV used them in his amps for more power tube tone.

As for the POD I had mine rigged to a fullrange stereo power amp into a split wired 4x12 sounded amazing but to me running it into a guitar amp does not allow it to fully do what it can do. Without a loop return you cannot bypass the preamp stage and unless you run a really toned down setting you are just not going to hear what the POD is putting out. I really liked the power amp rig I have for the POD as the ENGLs, Marshalls, Mesa and others really did sound like a full range responsive amp. But running the POD into my main tube head through the loop is a waste of a great amp. No way I want to bypass the preamp and just use the power amp and that is mono no less. If you really want to hear the POD you need to hear it in fullrange stereo mode as the HD500 can run two chains and dual amps plus a lot of stereo effects.

Been a few months since I cranked up my half stack as I have been having fun with the POD rig I had forgotten the power and range of that amp and the fun I have with pedals. The POD is cool if you allow it to run to its potential but in no way can I say lose the amp and pedal thing. Each is quite fun and has its own range of possibilities. For my $.03 I consider the HD POD great for recording fun and use with a full range stereo power amp and I prefer using guitar cabs or speakers for the range and punch of the models it is copying.

I tried the famous 4CM method so many use on the POD and I am amazed, no one has noticed the POD effects loop drops like 6db making the driving of external pedals useless, gains or overdrives simply do not drive to their design level. I suspect many have been running it into their amp front end and just compensating the level on the amp, they never notice the drop. But try and run external pedals and the effects loop on the POD has huge problems.

I am all about the tone and what works the best sounds the best. The HD POD is a great unit but no way I would integrate it into my main tube amp. I think LINE 6 is pulling one over on most users who do that 4CM as they are not noticing the level drop into their amp. I think I know their reasoning in not telling it as they are trying to keep the level going into the amp in lower to avoid interaction and too much gain from the amps preamp as that would help the POD work with a std guitar amp. Since they experience a lot of really dense guitar players daily I am sure they think they are pulling one off. Granted most players are not that bright or technical and there is a larger market for the dufus plug and play crowd. There is a lot of fun in the POD and easy for them to load it with more features and abilities that most players will never use or find. But that loop level is a killer on an advanced external pedal rig.

There are several flaws on the POD we have asked LINE 6 repeatedly to tweak and fix. If they want more experienced users to make use of the unit they need to step up and fix the issues. If not they can continue to sell the unit to newbies who think they can plug in and play and sound just like someone.

I have mine just in my loop with an array of modulation, delays and reverbs and that serves the deal until at some point I redo my pedal loop chain.
I will reserve the POD for future recording and for use with my power amp rig.

At any rate, a good player adapts to what works and learns how to use what they have to its potential.
Using lower gain 5751s on a std guitar amp without a loop is probably the best means to integrate the POD into the amp and just allow the POD to create the tone. I found running pedals up front like better compressor and over drive pushed on the amp models very much like a real amp response. Of course you cannot go nuts with too much db into a digital platform or you get nasty digital clipping but moderate clean boost, compression and overdrive works quite well into the POD front.

Also a tip, if you use the "guitar" and "same" global input settings in increases the POD level and I think adds a little noise floor. Tames it down a little with less noise and works better with pedals using one of the inputs you are not using. If you do an A/B thing you can clearly hear the level come up and more noise floor.
I think the reason the effects loop level is lower is because they are trying to mask noise floor coming off the effects loop. When I put a Class A transparent clean boost right off the loop to bring the level up 6db the noise level came up as well and was just no good. I do suspect LINE 6 knows the issues as many have complained about it and there is no internal send volume increase on the "send" loop whereas there is on "return" which one does not need, unless you run a straight patch cable and create a clean boost for the effects block. POD is great unit and really a big bang for the buck but does have some slight bugs and internal issues they need to fix if they expect any experienced players to use it. Another example is their Pitch Glide model of the Whammy, great effect and I love those pedals for the cool harmonizer mode ability. The POD has no problem doing the typical weeeooo thing BUT if you are like me and use the harmonizer modes like 4ths and 5ths you cannot set the expression pedal to a tuned interval because it has percentages on the controller edit with no decimals so you cannot get the pedal to a tuned stop up or down on a 4th or 5th like the real Whammy. Again not something everyone will ever notice but an out of tune 4th or 5th is terrible. You can just hard set the model to a 4th or 5th up or down and just use it that way but being able to rig intervals on the expression pedal like a real Whammy is again what a Whammy is supposed to do. Another needed fix I have harped to LINE 6 about so many times.

Anyway on input mod: I also like using 1 Mohm level and I had good results using a split feed to both the "guitar" and "aux" but I was not using a std guitar amp. Using the "same" toggle raises the level and that might not be to advantage w a std amp using amp in connection.
Anyway, happy camping. Great info on various tubes and technical on the thetubestore website. Seems to be pretty accurate in their ratings and analysis of different tubes and insights on generic tubes which are just relabeled.
Old 23rd August 2012
  #980
Gear Head
 
eencarna's Avatar
 

Attachment 306206

Strymon Bluesky
Malekko Ekko 616
Lovepedal E6
Digitech Whammy
Dunlop Crybaby 535Q
Strymon OB-1 compressor
Boss TU-2

All going into a Voodoo Labs Pedal Power 2
Old 24th August 2012
  #981
Lives for gear
 
Mylithra's Avatar
 

Here is my setup.


Signal Chain as follows:

1. (not shown) Line6 G50 Wireless (its what the loose DC plug top right is for)
2. Ernie Ball Volume Jr.
2a. Tuner out on the Volume to the PolyTune Mini.
3. Volume out to the Keeley Luna Distortion
4. Keeley Katana Clean Boost. Used for Solos.
5. Catalinbread Dirty Little Secret (used for low gain distortion. Roll off Volume a little and it cleans up, pretty much on all the time)
6. TC Chorus +
7. TC Flashback Delay
8. Hardwire Reverb (the Lexicon plates are really nice)

There is a Voodoo Labs power supply bolted to the bottom of the board. The board itself is a PedalTrain Jr.

I run this into a heavily modified Blues Jr.
Tonestack caps Replaced with Orange Drops.
Coupling caps replaced with Orange Drops
Bias circuit made trim pot adjustable
replaced output transformer with a Heyber
replaced speaker with a Weber 12F150
Jumpered pins 2&3 of the mid Pot. (gives more range to the control)
Replaced the first Filter cap with a 100uf 450v cap.
Changed lead dressing in the amp the eliminate heater induced hum.
Replaced power switch with a progressive 3 position switch. The middle position is a standby.
Retubed amp with Holland made Mullard EL84s, Mullard 12AT7 for the PI, and RCA Greyplate 12AX7s for the first gainstage and Tonestack driver.

All this gives me a very unique sound.
Old 24th August 2012
  #982
Lives for gear
I just retubed and biased my half stack w Mullards EL34s and 5-12AX7s
great tubes.


Just did a new review of the Pigtronix Disnortion here on the site for those curious about this pedal.
Pigtronix Disnortion OFO
I was and got one the other day, Nice addition to my board, hard to beat 3 independent effects for low bucks. I want some more of their pedals, really great tech design, this one is perhaps their lower tech level but a great sounding and responsive OD, 6 EQ band Fuzz and a Octava which is pretty good sounding for that moody effect. Fuzz and OD are wired in parallel instead of series. Pedal is not bypass but a high end buffer circuit very quiet.
Old 25th August 2012
  #983
Here for the gear
 

I got a tc electronic nova delay to replace my dl4. Now I am planning in trading it away for another pedal(s)

I also just ordered a used Keisman Juggy Boost today for my board
Old 27th August 2012
  #984
Lives for gear
Hard to beat the Eventide and Strymon delay units. Those are my new delay targets. Eventide I can make payments w no hassle. I've had so many delay pedals, liked that TC Flashback a lot but missed having a ms readout and any sense of easy presets. I am surprised you did not like the Nova unit. That seemed like a decent unit.

I am currently using my HD500 in the amp loop just for some modulation, delays and reverbs, doing OK and has some abilities like a billion preset capability. Will do the deal for a while. The pedal addiction eventually got the better of me. I put new Mullards in my half stack and it sounded so damn amazing I could not stop playing it. Pedals are just so much easier for me to deal with and I spend more time playing than bloody tweaking all the time.
Old 27th August 2012
  #985
Lives for gear
 
Joe Porto's Avatar
 

Custom loop/channel switcher gives me comp>delay 1>clean amp channel or Amp 50>Kalamazoo>delay 2>dirty channel. Tuner and phaser are always in line, pre switcher.

Attachment 306768
Old 28th August 2012
  #986
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkhorse View Post
Hard to beat the Eventide and Strymon delay units. Those are my new delay targets. Eventide I can make payments w no hassle. I've had so many delay pedals, liked that TC Flashback a lot but missed having a ms readout and any sense of easy presets. I am surprised you did not like the Nova unit. That seemed like a decent unit.
Oooooo nooo just the opposite. I meant that I replaced my line 6 dl4 with the nova delay. I like the nova delay better than Eventide.
I'd take a strymon in a heartbeat though.
Nothing touches the nova for the $
Old 28th August 2012
  #987
Lives for gear
Glad you straightened me out on that one. I am up most of the night and I get a little groggy in the wee hours.
The more I look at the Eventide the less I like it. Styrmon seems to rule the high end. I like that Nova quite a bit, seems to do what the Flashback can do and more w presets and a ms readout. I think it was PGS that was offering a mod on it, forget what that was. Hard to go wrong w TC. I would still have the Flashback if they would release a public editor version for the internal features, all this yada about downloading "sounds like" presets just runs pale when you do not give a crap how someone else sets up a delay or anything else. Why that seems to matter so much on units is a mystery to me. Thankfully they did not go to far on the POD and actually allow you to erase all the factory crap. The toneprints are a cool idea but they need to let us design our own pedal preset and that would be a major deal in the pedal market.

TC just came out w a new upgrade Flashback model but still no readout as the unit is small. Has that BinRec model and something else the POD has. To this date I think the Flashback TC was the best sounding and featured delay I have had. For the money it is a powerful and featured delay w a long loop and great sound if the Nova gets close to that it is a winner in my book. At half the cost of a Strymon pretty cool.
Old 28th August 2012
  #988
Lives for gear
 
Mylithra's Avatar
 

There we're only a handful of delays that did the dotted quarter/ eighth combo and at first I got a Nova Delay. It was a great sounding pedal but it got noisy on me and sometime just break out in a digital scream. I replaced it with another one and it eventually developed the same problem. (pretty quickly too If I remember correctly)

Pros.
Sounded good
Lots of parameter options and preset storage

Cons.
Large footprint
dedicated 12v power supply
somewhat unreliable (at least in my experience)

I do use the Flashback now, which gets rid of all the Cons I had for the Nova. I think it sounds every bit as good as the Nova with a much smaller footprint and standard power requirements.
Old 29th August 2012
  #989
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mylithra View Post
There we're only a handful of delays that did the dotted quarter/ eighth combo and at first I got a Nova Delay. It was a great sounding pedal but it got noisy on me and sometime just break out in a digital scream. I replaced it with another one and it eventually developed the same problem. (pretty quickly too If I remember correctly)

Pros.
Sounded good
Lots of parameter options and preset storage

Cons.
Large footprint
dedicated 12v power supply
somewhat unreliable (at least in my experience)

I do use the Flashback now, which gets rid of all the Cons I had for the Nova. I think it sounds every bit as good as the Nova with a much smaller footprint and standard power requirements.
We're you using it in your amps effects loop or with some boost pedals? The nova delay has the ability to adjust the expected input level. Check the manual if you still have one around and look up how to do this. Basically it says to enter this mode playing as loud as you ever would. Cranked up and boost pedals on, solo level live rig gain settings and then it will adjust making sure that your are not completely overloading the input. Then when you are done all should be good in case that was ever a problem.
Old 30th August 2012
  #990
Here for the gear
 
purps's Avatar
 

I was going to make a thread and realized I cant. :(
So guys I hope this is not a threadjack, but figured this would be the place since pedals are connected to ....AMPS!
Mods if this is in the wrong place or Im a ****** for posting here just move said post.
I just bought a marshall jcm2000 tsl 100 and matching av cab.
I asked for 900 but he wouldnt go lower than 1100 for both.
Was this a good deal/ fair price?
I know what this cost brand new but dont care, we all know music gear usually depreciates 50% once you step out the door, lol.
the amp and cab look great one small tear on corner of cab.
I played itand the only thing was this weird poping transient noise that sounds to me like a ground fault; it was on and off but constant.
is this common in marshalls or did I buy a lemon?
I have had a avt 200 150h and marshall MV I believe, didnt realy care for thaty amp much.
I actually loved the avt, sweet distorition on that thing.

Dont have pics but to stay relevant to posts ...
Im a pedal guy. Love pedals.
But my main gear is always going to be vintage, with one exception.
eventides pedals...wow did they hit it with these or what?
My pedals are mostly old japaneese boss pedals, I also have a vintage 70"s electroharmonix "boost" pedal and of course my eventide timefactor, man I love that thing.
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