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how do you mic your cabs? Dynamic Microphones
Old 19th August 2007
  #1
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how do you mic your cabs?

ive got a mesa dc-5 combo. i usually place a sm57 and a e609 about 4 in from the face and about 10 in apart( one 12 in speaker), i think i could be getting better results, any one have any suggestions?
thanks
Old 20th August 2007
  #2
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Akoppenheffer's Avatar
 

I like getting a pair of SM57s and using comb filtering to my advantage. I keep them up at the grill though.
Old 23rd August 2007
  #3
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Mastering101's Avatar
right now i have a pair of sennheiser 609's right on the grill of 2 bogner 1/12 cabs
..i find the sweetest spot on each cab and dial in the phase with IBP jr's
Old 23rd August 2007
  #4
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I use a dc-3 so we have something in common there. Great amp by the way. I run it thru a 4x12 cab, using on 57 on the sweetest sounding speaker about an inch off center pointing directly at the speaker. I've tried using the multi mic techniques and never really found any advantage to it. I've also used i5's, e609's, d6's, and various LDC's on my cab yet have always gone back to the good ole 57.
Old 24th August 2007
  #5
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RCM - Ronan's Avatar
57 on the grill works for me most of the time.
Old 24th August 2007
  #6
I've had great success on my friends Hot Rod Deluxe with just a 57. 57s make a scooped mid sound. The treble boost in combination with the proximity effect causes the scooped mids. If you already have that sound, like the surfy sound I have with my AC-30 and chambered warmoth strat, then you might want to try a condenser mic. My vox ac-30 only has bass and treble controls, so to get the scooped mid sound I turn up the bass and treble controls together. With an SM57 it sounds really thin and weird. If your amp sounds exactly how you want it to, use a more accurate mic. If you have a full sounding amp like the way that most guitarists set it, the sm57 adapts and thins out the sound slightly in a very useful way for the mix.
Old 25th August 2007
  #7
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octatonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fenn View Post
ive got a mesa dc-5 combo. i usually place a sm57 and a e609 about 4 in from the face and about 10 in apart( one 12 in speaker), i think i could be getting better results, any one have any suggestions?
thanks
Nice amp- one of my favourites from Mesa- highly underrated.
57's work, e609's work.
You could try Albini's technique of having one bright and one dark mic and blend to taste.
I just got an original Beyer 201 (today) and have been loving it by itself (about a foot form the cone, off axis. Sounds huge.

For me, tracking guitars sounds best when approached simply- these guys who put 4 mics on a cab... I dunno- any time I've tried it, it sucked.
Old 25th August 2007
  #8
84K
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I don't care what the amp, which the guitar, who the player, what style of music, etc.

If ever there was a golden rule to recording an electric guitar (see below)

Always, try subtle movements of mic placement in relation to the speaker. Just get you mic through a micpre that you plan to try using, no eq, no compression, just work the mic around the speaker till it sounds the best just going through the pre. Then, go from there. This can be hard if you are the player and the engineer, so you may need a good friend who doesn't mind a few post session hours of ringing ears. It is amazing how good you can get it to sound by working the mic. SM57s can sound great when you place them well. Then again they can sound thin a lifeless. There is not one angle, position, or go to placement. You must work the mic and use your ears. thumbsup Also, the other golden rule, is make sure it sounds great at the source. And listen to the source and remember what it sounds like to your ears when you are in front of it, and the goal is to get that sound captured with as much detail and as ACCURATE as possible. Accurate = how it sounds when you are in the room with the amp.
Old 25th August 2007
  #9
84K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octatonic View Post
You could try Albini's ...
he loves 414's on guitars
Old 25th August 2007
  #10
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chrispick's Avatar
 

57 and 421, usually favoring the latter.
Old 25th August 2007
  #11
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nbarts's Avatar
 

57

I've tried a lot of different mics & techniques lately. After all I came back to 57, even if I like more open sound, 57 with EQ boost on top end sounds better than anything else so far.
Old 25th August 2007
  #12
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keiffer's Avatar
 

my guitar mic locker:

SM57
SM57 w/o Transformer
ATM650 *
MD421
i5
e609S

* I really like this mic. sort of a 57 and i5 combined.
Old 25th August 2007
  #13
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china jam's Avatar
 

I too like to use a Beyer 201, original or otherwise - there really isn't much difference. There's no hard and fast rules on mic placement but I usually find myself micing the outside of the cone 4 - 6 inches away.

I nearly always run it through an 1176 when tracking, even with minimal gain reduction it always adds that something extra.

Can't stand recording badly maintained valve amps!
Old 25th August 2007
  #14
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pan60's Avatar
 

mostly a EV-RE-15 or a RE-16 up close.
Old 25th August 2007
  #15
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hle144's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by octatonic View Post
For me, tracking guitars sounds best when approached simply- these guys who put 4 mics on a cab... I dunno- any time I've tried it, it sucked.

I agree 100%. I use the same setup 90%. Sm57 and a 421 on the grill, maybe a ribbon or tube mic in the back, ****, most of the times, I just shove only a 421 and find the appropriate micpre.

Tracking in general should be kept simple. Knowing what sounds and feels good is my only objective. With guitar cabs, why ruin the sound of the cab? Just get up some appropriate mics and pres and let the guitar player do all the work.
Old 25th August 2007
  #16
84K
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84K's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by octatonic View Post
For me, tracking guitars sounds best when approached simply- these guys who put 4 mics on a cab... I dunno- any time I've tried it, it sucked.
I agree 50% of the time. I have had great results both ways.

If I have my druthers, I prefer multiple amps more than multiple mics on one amp. I work on rock music 95% of the time. If the budget is there to spend an hour or two dialing in the sound and experimenting with amps, I will use two amps. Each into a 4X12. So it is a stack, but two different amps driving each 4X12. I like one to punch out the midrange and one to give me the fuzz on the top and the thick bottom. Then I buss and blend them to one track. Each cabinet will have two mics on it. Lately, it’s a 57 and D25 on one speaker on one cab, and a R121 and 421 on the other cab, again both mics on one speaker. I like to do the blend while tracking so at the end of the day; there is one track and a slave of the individual mics. I find that the interaction of the player with the tone he/she is hearing while tracking is always best. Besides, I don't like to go back to the original four mics and redo a blend I spent a couple hours on... There are other things to record. But, I keep the slave around until the final mix.

I have done recordings that I am very proud of with just one 421 or 57. It all depends. I think you can get more detail/information with more mics. Like recording drums. You can get great drum sounds with one mic if you work it right. But, when you mic a full kit right, there is much more dimension. But, it takes a lot more time and sometimes the budget isn't there.
Old 3rd September 2007
  #17
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slaves666's Avatar
57 and 609 upclose on a Vintage 30. Use the 57 for the top and crunch and 609 for the bottom and air. Blend to taste.
Old 3rd September 2007
  #18
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Pasta4lnch's Avatar
i have my cab in an iso cab so on the grill is my only option, but i use a 57 and/or 421 w/ a 414 and I've never been dissapointed . . .

just a dynamic has a cool sound, but I really prefer it w/ a condenser as well . . .
Old 3rd September 2007
  #19
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rainsinvelvet's Avatar
Royer 121 up way close and then an sm57 on the same speaker or a different speaker. I bring them up on two channels and then buss them to tape. By blending, phase reversing, ect I usually get something that sounds like a electric guitar heh

ERic
Old 5th September 2007
  #20
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57 up close, LDC out a few feet to pick up the room. If I want more low end I put the amp on the floor, but usually I'll sit it on top of it's case to get it off the floor. I generally aim it at the control room glass so I get plenty of reflections in the room mic.

A trick I learned is to mic the strings on the guitar and mix them in when I want more clarity (like on solos).

I always track through a direct box with one output going to the amp and the other going straight into the interface. Makes comping a lot easier and you can go back and change the tone by running the raw recorded track into another amp.
Old 11th September 2007
  #21
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malaclypse's Avatar
yeah, i like to take the time to move a 57 around until it sounds sweet. i'll also put an mc012 through a tube pre for solos. sounds pretty cool. i'm getting a pair of fatheadIIs next week, so i'll be playing with those a lot
Old 12th September 2007
  #22
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Oroz's Avatar
 

What I've been liking the most lately is the combination of a R-122 with a Rode NT-2. I like to align their diaphragms. Then mix to taste. I also like to use the R-122 alone and if that's my choice then I'll put the mic right in the middle of the speaker, now, I wouldn't do that with a non-ribbon mic, because of all the treble you get in that spot but that's exactly why I put the Royer in there. I also try to dial more presence/treble in the amp itself than I'd normally do (if I'm using only the Royer that is).

Old 12th September 2007
  #23
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sE Electronics R1 ribbon has been a favorite for quite some time now, maybe 6" from the speaker pointed dead center. If I need a little more room sound I can just start backing it off from there. Overall I am not a fan of 2 mics on the same cab.

For a tight sound all around the E/V ND468 pretty much right up on the speaker, now THAT is a tight situation with almost zero room to be heard (that mic rejects off axis like crazy and can just about make a drum kit even disappear in the same room).

War
Old 12th September 2007
  #24
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richiepalooza's Avatar
 

Great suggestions all. I can't wait to try some.

I've never had good luck with a 57. I keep trying tho. They're kinda like a Gretsch guitar to me, great when someone else plays it. But i'll keep trying.

My micing techniques really depend on what I want that part to do. If I need an upfront solo or heavy, crunchy, riffy kinda thing I'll reach for the 609 right up on the grill. But for clean parts I really like the ,royer 121,Octava 219, and depending on the part and amp EH ribbon mic. They all run thru a '80's Ramsa board ala early EJ.

One thing that I've been doing alot lately, is backing the mic up 10-12 in. for rhythm parts. This makes them sound farther away so that they sit in the mix in a more natural way.

I think of my parts in three different ways. Clean, medium, and dirty. Clean almost always gets two amps, sometimes stereo sometimes summed to mono. Dirty solo parts usually get one. Medium parts get sometimes get one sometimes two.

Hope this helps.
Old 12th September 2007
  #25
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BTW, micing your amp can takes a long time at first, but the reward is significant. Don't get discouraged. Once you figure out how you like it, things go faster and faster. I really want to encourage you to measure and diagram the placement and mic choices that worked. That way you can always go back to them quickly.

Also, BEWARE OF EAR FATIGUE. Recording loud guitars fatigues the ears faster than just about anything. So get a good sound. Setup your mic. Go away for an hour. recheck and press record.
Old 13th September 2007
  #26
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doorknocker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 84K View Post
Just get you mic through a micpre that you plan to try using, no eq, no compression, just work the mic around the speaker till it sounds the best just going through the pre. Then, go from there. This can be hard if you are the player and the engineer, so you may need a good friend who doesn't mind a few post session hours of ringing ears.
I really love my Boomerang Phrase sampler for that so that I can loop the part I'm about to record and then adjust the mics with headphones in the live room. But what happened more and more lately is that I just threw up a mic to get the basic preamp and amp settings with the intention of then fine-tuning the mic position with the Boomerang loop. But often the sound is good as it is and I learned not to mess with it then. I've ruined quite a few potentially good tracks by messing too long with the fine-tuning of the mic position and pre choices that resulted in a different-but-not-better sound in the end while also killing the 'magic of the moment'.

421, M160 and sometimes SM7 and less often a 57 are my mic choices for amps these days.
Old 13th September 2007
  #27
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PapillonIrl's Avatar
 

I pick a spot with a Shure Unidyne III and Extreme Isolation cans. I then put the capsule of a Jim Williams modded 414 B-ULS as close as possible to that spot, in tight cardioid. I use an IBP if needed, usually it isn't.

Unidydne III provides 'forward-midrange-poke-through', and the 414 the prettier full-range 'hi-fi' bit.

Cheers,

Nathan

Last edited by PapillonIrl; 13th September 2007 at 01:43 PM.. Reason: Mispelling
Old 13th September 2007
  #28
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richiepalooza's Avatar
 

I really love my Boomerang Phrase sampler for that so that I can loop the part I'm about to record and then adjust the mics with headphones in the live room.

What a great idea!!! I'm gonna see if I can find one today.
Old 14th September 2007
  #29
84K
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A friend and I have designed an amp together. We are going to release it. Just mic'd it up with a 421 and I am very pleased with the way the thing is sounding. I will have to post clips at some point.
Old 17th September 2007
  #30
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BlueStrat's Avatar
 

'57 on the grill, u87 2 feet back and fairly off centre, the '87 provides a great bit of depth! thumbsup
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