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Moved to a new house and amps are buzzing like crazy; power lines?
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #331
Quote:
Originally Posted by nosebleedaudio View Post
You mentioned that a neighbor who played Gtr did NOT hear it until he cranked the gain up..So it must not be real strong..
Every time I have dealt with RF ect it was the Gear that was "Modified" to reduce/eliminate the interference, sometimes Mics & amps were sold to get rid of it.
My point is I would not expect the power company to make the AC real clean..
Unless there is a moderate level of harmonics on the Line.

A friend of mine who worked for the power company here told me there is a small group of engineers that do nothing but deal with harmonics.. My point is they are aware of harmonics 100%..

If you were close I would like to demo a DI pre I built that contains Filtering to reduce interference..

Like I mentioned guitars & amps are NOT a high end level of gear..They CAN & DO pick up stuff..
Have you tried a really good Gtr cable? Like the Mogami 2524 double shielded cable? If not I would just to see..
I can pick this signal up from over a mile away (at least north, south, and east), so I'm not sure that would make it a weak signal. I just want to know what's generating it, and whether it can be addressed. For that, I will need the power company. I just need to know what specifically I need to communicate to them to get someone out that can actually help.

As far as cables go, I ordered a set of Divine Noise cables, but they have yet to arrive.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #332
Lives for gear
 
Snorktop's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Maybe call a specialist who helps build recording studios and knows about power related sound issues.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #333
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nosebleedaudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by _starbelly View Post
I can pick this signal up from over a mile away (at least north, south, and east),

.
You were a mile away from ANY power lines?
I find it hard to believe the Power lines could be producing this from even a few hundred feet away..
Old 3 weeks ago
  #334
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
The contractor who was initially sent from my power company to check for interference said they have worked with this company a lot: https://rfiservices.com/
He tried to call them when he was out here, but they weren't available at the time (it was New Year's Eve past 5pm EST and they're based in Maryland, I'm in CA)

They advertise as RFI service and mainly deal with Ham radio and TV issues. I haven't contacted them so I'm not sure if they troubleshoot non-ultrasonic problems, too, but I'd think they would.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorktop View Post
Maybe call a specialist who helps build recording studios and knows about power related sound issues.
Perhaps this is the route I should look into. I don't quite know where to start regarding who to look for (job title, etc.).

Quote:
Originally Posted by nosebleedaudio View Post
You were a mile away from ANY power lines?
I find it hard to believe the Power lines could be producing this from even a few hundred feet away..
I was still in the vicinity of power lines (I live in a city), but was able to pick up this distinct 540 Hz hum from a mile away in numerous directions. I have lived in several other areas in this city, and have never had any issued. As I mentioned, I do live very close to some transmission lines, but given my DIY attempts with a guitar and battery powered amp, it is unclear whether they are producing the noise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wadesey View Post
The contractor who was initially sent from my power company to check for interference said they have worked with this company a lot: https://rfiservices.com/
He tried to call them when he was out here, but they weren't available at the time (it was New Year's Eve past 5pm EST and they're based in Maryland, I'm in CA)

They advertise as RFI service and mainly deal with Ham radio and TV issues. I haven't contacted them so I'm not sure if they troubleshoot non-ultrasonic problems, too, but I'd think they would.
Thanks for the tip! I'll definitely check them out!
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #336
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nosebleedaudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by _starbelly View Post

I was still in the vicinity of power lines (I live in a city), but was able to pick up this distinct 540 Hz hum from a mile away in numerous directions. I have lived in several other areas in this city, and have never had any issued. As I mentioned, I do live very close to some transmission lines, but given my DIY attempts with a guitar and battery powered amp, it is unclear whether they are producing the noise.

Like I mentioned before putting a scope on the AC line in your house and see IF its there at all would be a good start to prove its ON the AC line..
Most if not ALL AC power lines will have some level of Noise/harmonics, its a fact of life.
Wait till your good cables come in and see if they reduce this..I would think it could...Although your Gtr is still on the end of the cable...
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #337
Quote:
Originally Posted by nosebleedaudio View Post
Like I mentioned before putting a scope on the AC line in your house and see IF its there at all would be a good start to prove its ON the AC line..
Most if not ALL AC power lines will have some level of Noise/harmonics, its a fact of life.
Wait till your good cables come in and see if they reduce this..I would think it could...Although your Gtr is still on the end of the cable...
This gives me an actionable plan though: request a specialist use an oscilloscope to see if there are indeed harmonics on the AC line.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #338
Lives for gear
 
nosebleedaudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by _starbelly View Post
This gives me an actionable plan though: request a specialist use an oscilloscope to see if there are indeed harmonics on the AC line.
A unit that would be far cheaper & easier to use to listen to the "AC Line"
Going to build one today if I have enough time..
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #339
Gear Guru
 
kafka's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Are you really sure you know the source? I found that to be very hard to determine. EMF is literally everywhere in a residential or urban area. Nearby sources will throw everything off. Coming up with a baseline isn't a simple task.

Have you lived some place where it didn't seem to be an issue? Maybe go to that neighborhood and take some measurements to determine what 'normal' looks like.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #340
Quote:
Originally Posted by kafka View Post
Are you really sure you know the source? I found that to be very hard to determine. EMF is literally everywhere in a residential or urban area. Nearby sources will throw everything off. Coming up with a baseline isn't a simple task.

Have you lived some place where it didn't seem to be an issue? Maybe go to that neighborhood and take some measurements to determine what 'normal' looks like.
The entire point of all of this is that I don’t know what the source is, and I want someone (like the power company) to help me determine what the source is to see if anything can be done about it.

And yes, I have lived in numerous other places in this same city and have never experienced this distinct problem with harmonics (especially 540Hz). Something is strange in the area I am now living in.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #341
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Rick Dalton's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by _starbelly View Post
The entire point of all of this is that I don’t know what the source is, and I want someone (like the power company) to help me determine what the source is to see if anything can be done about it.

And yes, I have lived in numerous other places in this same city and have never experienced this distinct problem with harmonics (especially 540Hz). Something is strange in the area I am now living in.
This may be of interest.
https://sites.google.com/site/emfcan...ionforthehome/
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Dalton View Post
This is interesting, but I’m not sure I have the time or patience to put all this together. Plus, I already have the ISP Hum Extractor + Decimator G pedal, which essentially does this.

In any case, neither solution actually tackles the cause of the noise, just the symptoms. I’m curious about what the cause is and what, if anything, can be done about it.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #343
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Rick Dalton's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by _starbelly View Post
This is interesting, but I’m not sure I have the time or patience to put all this together. Plus, I already have the ISP Hum Extractor + Decimator G pedal, which essentially does this.

In any case, neither solution actually tackles the cause of the noise, just the symptoms. I’m curious about what the cause is and what, if anything, can be done about it.
If you want to screw with this app, you may find something. Look at some of the reviews.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...llReviews=true
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Dalton View Post
If you want to screw with this app, you may find something. Look at some of the reviews.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...llReviews=true
Per a recent update, someone came by with a gauss meter and tested the fields in front of the house and by the transmission lines. They were at reasonable levels in front of the house, and increased right under the transmission lines. Unfortunately they did not really provide any insight as to what specifically is causing the 540Hz noise.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #345
Gear Head
 
Hi _Starbelly,

perhaps you forgot about the 3M presentation that was posted some time ago. That included their equipment for determining such problems as yours, though your power company may not have exactly that item.

What they need is a piece of gear that can show the frequency spectrum on the power line, not just a Gaussmeter which generally indicates overall amplitude, but not at specific frequencies applied. An oscilloscope with FFT functionality would be what I'd get out there (I have one, but I ain't going to Seattle) or the thing I'd EXPECT the power company to have, namely a harmonic analyzer.

Perhaps you forgot to mention "triplens" to them. I found a fairly good link for that:

https://electrical-engineering-porta...plen-harmonics


I think they sent a boy to do a man's job. I'd guess he went back to the office and said, "everything's within limits, no problem found."

At one point, you said you had had contact with someone who said, "Yeah, we have problems in [your] area." Whatever happened to him?
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #346
Quote:
Originally Posted by SynthFan65 ➡️
Hi _Starbelly,

perhaps you forgot about the 3M presentation that was posted some time ago. That included their equipment for determining such problems as yours, though your power company may not have exactly that item.

What they need is a piece of gear that can show the frequency spectrum on the power line, not just a Gaussmeter which generally indicates overall amplitude, but not at specific frequencies applied. An oscilloscope with FFT functionality would be what I'd get out there (I have one, but I ain't going to Seattle) or the thing I'd EXPECT the power company to have, namely a harmonic analyzer.

Perhaps you forgot to mention "triplens" to them. I found a fairly good link for that:

https://electrical-engineering-porta...plen-harmonics


I think they sent a boy to do a man's job. I'd guess he went back to the office and said, "everything's within limits, no problem found."

At one point, you said you had had contact with someone who said, "Yeah, we have problems in [your] area." Whatever happened to him?
Hey there!

Yes, there is a lot of information to sift through in this thread

I spoke with the rep again last Friday and after I told him the person who came by unannounced basically didn't do anything, he said he'd talk to his manager to see who may be able to help me out. He has yet to get back to me, so I'll reach out to him again tomorrow.

I did specifically mention triplens, but the rep seems more like s dispatcher, and may not have the deepest technical knowledge of these issues. He's basically creating tickets for me that are super general (i.e. hearing a noise through equipment).

I haven't really heard anything else regarding problems in my area, and I'm not really sure what they were referring to (something specific or the larger electrical infrastructure).

The person who came by and didn't do anything left their card, so maybe at the very least I'll be able to get some more contacts through him. I will be very specific in detailing my issue and saying what equipment I need.

I'll keep you updated!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #347
Quick update 2/9/21:

I called the rep from the power company who came by the house and he is arranging to come by again with another tech to get a more detailed look as to what is going on.

I managed to get the contact information for the supervisor of the rep that I've been speaking with over the phone, so hopefully I can use that contact to my advantage and get in touch with more people that might be able to help me.

I ordered a set of high quality instrument cables (Divine Noise), and they have not addressed the noise issue at all, unfortunately.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #348
Gear Head
 
Sorry, but your guitar is likely a much better antenna than the cable. One can even shield the guitar innards, but the pickups themselves should be how the noise is getting into the system, so, no joy there.

Looking at the "Divine Noise" website, they are using a spiral shield instead of braid, just like Mogami cables. When this point came up before, I posited that the spiral shield may get used on guitar cables for improved flexibility, but doesn't provide as good a shield as a double braid with foil under (stiff as a board). It's certainly nice that the maker is near me, and doing it all locally, but that's the major benefit. Silver solder doesn't seem like it would add much other than to the price unless maybe if one were on the road. I'd think the conductors would break before a good solder joint. Unless everything is done right, the joints could be more brittle with silver solder than with tin-lead. I also wonder if he uses silver solder because of RoHS (notably for Europe) more than its electrical and mechanical characteristics, or maybe it's just marketing. I do see that one can still get 63/37 tin-lead solder.

As long as "another tech" from the power company has the right gear, he ought to find something interesting. If they keep showing up with a Gaussmeter, they're barking up the wrong tree. A device that shows the harmonics is needed. Perhaps they don't want to see that?

The link I posted last was almost more for the power company than for you. A significant feature is that it discusses transformer neutral currents, which I think is the root cause. That would be on an upstream transformer in 3 phase territory, so not too near your house in all probability. That matches with your neighborhood jaunts where you got the signal aaalll over the place.
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #349
Here for the gear
 
Hi starbelly - your thread is the only one I've been able to find that is literally dealing with the exact issue I'm having. We moved to our new house in December 2020, it is a brand new build in a brand new community. I know all of my gear worked/sounded perfect before the move, but I started getting a much louder hum upon moving into the new place.

I've gone through a lot of the pain you went through in the past 2 months as well. I tried the ebtech humx, a high end power conditioner, and greenwave filters...still no luck. Also had an electrician check my house to make sure there was no dirty power somehow. It didn't dawn on me until about 2 weeks ago until i walked outside and could literally hear the power lines humming....but it was in front of my face the whole time. We have a large tower for the community literally 50 feet from our house along with all the main power lines...almost identical to the one you posted a picture of.

I watched your video on YouTube about the ISP hum eliminator - I honestly think that's going to be my solution as well. I will also call my power company, but since my community is all brand new construction (oldest house in the neighborhood is 4 years old), I'm not sure what they will be willing to do unless there truly is something faulty, and not just excess signal in the air due to my location. The buzz I'm getting is definitely coming from outside. I'm trying find if there's any other guitarists in the neighborhood just to make sure I'm not crazy here, but I'm 99% sure there's nothing in my control here.
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #350
Quote:
Originally Posted by superdrag81 ➡️
Hi starbelly - your thread is the only one I've been able to find that is literally dealing with the exact issue I'm having. We moved to our new house in December 2020, it is a brand new build in a brand new community. I know all of my gear worked/sounded perfect before the move, but I started getting a much louder hum upon moving into the new place.

I've gone through a lot of the pain you went through in the past 2 months as well. I tried the ebtech humx, a high end power conditioner, and greenwave filters...still no luck. Also had an electrician check my house to make sure there was no dirty power somehow. It didn't dawn on me until about 2 weeks ago until i walked outside and could literally hear the power lines humming....but it was in front of my face the whole time. We have a large tower for the community literally 50 feet from our house along with all the main power lines...almost identical to the one you posted a picture of.

I watched your video on YouTube about the ISP hum eliminator - I honestly think that's going to be my solution as well. I will also call my power company, but since my community is all brand new construction (oldest house in the neighborhood is 4 years old), I'm not sure what they will be willing to do unless there truly is something faulty, and not just excess signal in the air due to my location. The buzz I'm getting is definitely coming from outside. I'm trying find if there's any other guitarists in the neighborhood just to make sure I'm not crazy here, but I'm 99% sure there's nothing in my control here.
Ugh. I feel your pain! If you can post an example of the noise you’re hearing that would be great!

Perhaps we can learn from each other in the event that the power companies actually do anything, haha.
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #351
Here for the gear
 
Yep i can do that, i should be able to get a video either later today or tomorrow and upload to youtube. The tower i have near the back of my house is near identical to the one you posted. There's times i walk outside now and i can audibly hear the power humming from it and the lines above.

EDIT: guess i can't post a picture yet since i'm new here...its the same one I sent you in a private message, but wanted others to be able to see it. I tried putting it in as an attachment though so hopefully that works.
Attached Thumbnails
Moved to a new house and amps are buzzing like crazy; power lines?-shwxeor.jpg  

Last edited by superdrag81; 2 days ago at 11:19 PM.. Reason: mis spelled words
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #352
Lives for gear
 
nosebleedaudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by superdrag81 ➡️
Yep i can do that, i should be able to get a video either later today or tomorrow and upload to youtube. The tower i have near the back of my house is near identical to the one you posted. There's times i walk outside now and i can audibly hear the power humming from it and the lines above.

EDIT: guess i can't post a picture yet since i'm new here...its the same one I sent you in a private message, but wanted others to be able to see it. I tried putting it in as an attachment though so hopefully that works.
One thing for sure the tower is not going anywhere...
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #353
Here for the gear
 
Sadly yes, the tower is going nowhere haha. I purchased the same ISP hum / decimator starbelly did, so i'll report back when that arrives. I'll still do a video of my hum/buzz here hopefully today as well.
Old 1 day ago
  #354
Here for the gear
 
Totally crazy question. Just thinking outside the box here. What if somebody turned their studio into a faraday cage? Would that address this issue? Not even sure if that’s technically possible. Dunno, just spit ballin.
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #355
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kludgeaudio's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HOOL3Y ➡️
Totally crazy question. Just thinking outside the box here. What if somebody turned their studio into a faraday cage? Would that address this issue? Not even sure if that’s technically possible. Dunno, just spit ballin.
If it's RF (harmonics getting radiated by big power lines for instance), then this will help. There are a number of studios which have built small cages for guitar players and so forth.

If it's a magnetic field, like from a nearby transformer, the faraday cage will do nothing.
--scott
Old 22 hours ago | Show parent
  #356
Here for the gear
 
So i got the ISP Hum Extractor + Decimator (same as starbelly)...man this is a lifesaver. Sweetwater got it to me in 1 day too...can't beat that! As promised video below...trust me when i say the hum/buzz is even worse in person.


https://youtu.be/2zW-o6kVZGM
Old 22 hours ago | Show parent
  #357
Quote:
Originally Posted by superdrag81 ➡️
So i got the ISP Hum Extractor + Decimator (same as starbelly)...man this is a lifesaver. Sweetwater got it to me in 1 day too...can't beat that! As promised video below...trust me when i say the hum/buzz is even worse in person.


https://youtu.be/2zW-o6kVZGM
Wow! That works really well! It sounds your noise is much lower frequency than mine (you don't seem to be getting that "higher" pitched 540Hz hum). Is the Hum Extractor section of the pedal filtering out that low frequency noise? I'm just curious of the independent contributions of each control for your noise situation.

Are you also getting that slight chorus-like effect when you run your hands along the muted strings?

Also, what is your signal chain here?
Old 20 hours ago | Show parent
  #358
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by _starbelly ➡️
Wow! That works really well! It sounds your noise is much lower frequency than mine (you don't seem to be getting that "higher" pitched 540Hz hum). Is the Hum Extractor section of the pedal filtering out that low frequency noise? I'm just curious of the independent contributions of each control for your noise situation.

Are you also getting that slight chorus-like effect when you run your hands along the muted strings?

Also, what is your signal chain here?
Great question! So I had to figure the chain out on my own since the diagram in the manual is specific to amps with an effects loop.

The way I have it setup is:

Guitar plugged into "Guitar In" Channel 1.
From Ch1 "Guitar Out", that goes to the input of my fuzz pedal
Output of my fuzz pedal goes to the "Input" of Channel 2
Then Channel 2 "Output" goes into my amp

So for the hum and decimator knobs, I'd say its about a 60 /40 split in terms of utilization. The Hum extractor set to where it's at in the pic below takes out almost all the buzz and a decent bit of hum. The Decimator cleans up virtually the rest in the position I have it at. This is actually a remarkable device - I've never used a noise gate that that doesn't suck (or at least suck your tone out). I'd imagine it can't get much better than this unless you go with some type of tour issued rack gear. For home use this is absolutely stellar. I don't really notice a chorus-effect, maybe a very slight echo? I'm assuming i may not notice it as much as i'm a reverb junky on my amps so it probably blends in.
Attached Thumbnails
Moved to a new house and amps are buzzing like crazy; power lines?-zbnqbfz.jpg  
Old 19 hours ago | Show parent
  #359
Quote:
Originally Posted by superdrag81 ➡️
Great question! So I had to figure the chain out on my own since the diagram in the manual is specific to amps with an effects loop.

The way I have it setup is:

Guitar plugged into "Guitar In" Channel 1.
From Ch1 "Guitar Out", that goes to the input of my fuzz pedal
Output of my fuzz pedal goes to the "Input" of Channel 2
Then Channel 2 "Output" goes into my amp

So for the hum and decimator knobs, I'd say its about a 60 /40 split in terms of utilization. The Hum extractor set to where it's at in the pic below takes out almost all the buzz and a decent bit of hum. The Decimator cleans up virtually the rest in the position I have it at. This is actually a remarkable device - I've never used a noise gate that that doesn't suck (or at least suck your tone out). I'd imagine it can't get much better than this unless you go with some type of tour issued rack gear. For home use this is absolutely stellar. I don't really notice a chorus-effect, maybe a very slight echo? I'm assuming i may not notice it as much as i'm a reverb junky on my amps so it probably blends in.
Nice! The Hum Extractor + Decimator G manual describes how to use it without and effects loop, and I believe you're doing exactly what it suggests.

And yeah, your experience mirrors mine! The Hum Extractor takes out a big chunk of the offending noise, and the Decimator/gate mops up the rest. I agree with you, the device is super transparent; during normal playing I really can't hear any sort of detrimental effect it's having on my tone. I wonder if what I describe as a "chorus-like" effect is what you're describing as delay/reverb. Buck from ISP told me that there is an audible artifact of the Hum Extractor portion of the pedal when moving your hands along muted strings. In practice, this isn't really an issue.

I'm super happy this is working for you! Not trying to be a shill here, but it's a seriously great product; I hope it catches on!
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