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Stupid question: Do I need an amp? (Why?)
Old 4th August 2020
  #31
Gear Maniac
 

Start with an amp sim, you'll have a lot more versatility than any one amp can provide, and you'll save a ton of money by not having to buy a pedal for every effect you want. Perfectly suited for studio recording.
Old 4th August 2020
  #32
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hired Goon View Post
Start with an amp sim, you'll have a lot more versatility than any one amp can provide, and you'll save a ton of money by not having to buy a pedal for every effect you want. Perfectly suited for studio recording.
Versatility does not good tone make
Old 4th August 2020
  #33
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
Versatility does not good tone make
If you can't get a useable tone out of any of the top amp sims then you've got a serious problem. I'm not going to get into it any further with you.
Old 4th August 2020
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hired Goon View Post
If you can't get a useable tone out of any of the top amp sims then you've got a serious problem. I'm not going to get into it any further with you.
Really?
Well I guess usable is relative, but I must confess that so far myself and most other sim users I know failed. For home noodling or practice - sorta. Not in the studio. But perhaps you can educate me on what a good tone is and how I can get it on a sim (which by definition is a digital approximation of the real thing, which is very different ). I respect your opinion and would like you to point out the secret method you use to make sims sound good. Fair?
Old 4th August 2020
  #35
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
Really?
Well I guess usable is relative, but I must confess that so far myself and most other sim users I know failed. For home noodling or practice - sorta. Not in the studio. But perhaps you can educate me on what a good tone is and how I can get it on a sim (which by definition is a digital approximation of the real thing, which is very different ). I respect your opinion and would like you to point out the secret method you use to make sims sound good. Fair?
I'm sorry to hear you failed at getting a useable sound from an amp sim. Maybe these guys could help you out:

https://www.fractalaudio.com/artists/

PS. Here's the secret...If it sounds good, it is good
Old 4th August 2020
  #36
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hired Goon View Post
I'm sorry to hear you failed at getting a useable sound from an amp sim. Maybe these guys could help you out:

https://www.fractalaudio.com/artists/

PS. Here's the secret...If it sounds good, it is good
Know the local distributor, plus a couple of endorsees. Begged them for a demo. In the end I was told that AxeFx II ultra with all the goodies, is a means to an end, but real amp it ain't. From the horses mouth. And I was gonna buy the bloody thing if it made the grade. Go figure. But that's an old argument, It doesn't work for me, or my clients (in comparison to my amps). However it is used on reality shows and is good enough for that. You may like it too. Depends on your preferences.
Old 4th August 2020
  #37
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
Know the local distributor, plus a couple of endorsees. Begged them for a demo. In the end I was told that AxeFx II ultra with all the goodies, is a means to an end, but real amp it ain't. From the horses mouth. And I was gonna buy the bloody thing if it made the grade. Go figure. But that's an old argument, It doesn't work for me, or my clients (in comparison to my amps). However it is used on reality shows and is good enough for that. You may like it too. Depends on your preferences.
Oh so you didn't actually try one? Seeing as you are in the biz, perhaps the rep can hook you up with the newer Axe III. If not there are plenty of used Axe IIs floating around.

Used in reality shows is it? Good to know. I'm sure Metallica, Def Leppard, Misha Mansoor, John Petrucci, Tobin Abasi, The Edge, Steve Vai, Dweezil Zappa, Joe Satriani, Alex Lifespan, Devin Townsend, Synester Gates, Guthrie Govan, Neil Schon, Andy Summers, Alan Holdsworth, Steve Stevens, Adrian Below, Plini, Sunny Landreth, Bumblefoot, Greg Howe, Marty Friedman, Mark Tremonti, Ty Tabor, or any other of the famous, professional players on that list who use the Axe would be comforted to know it made the grade for reality shows.

Who knows maybe you are a Helix guy:
https://line6.com/artists/

Or perhaps the Kemper would be more your thing as a profiler:
https://www.kemper-amps.com/artist-gallery

Personally I prefer TH-U in the software world - modeling and profiling in one package for a couple hundred bucks.

Just giving the OP some options is all. May not be good enough for you, but possibly for him. At the very least it's good enough for several hundred pros.
Old 4th August 2020
  #38
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
Know the local distributor, plus a couple of endorsees. Begged them for a demo. In the end I was told that AxeFx II ultra with all the goodies, is a means to an end, but real amp it ain't. From the horses mouth. And I was gonna buy the bloody thing if it made the grade. Go figure. But that's an old argument, It doesn't work for me, or my clients (in comparison to my amps). However it is used on reality shows and is good enough for that. You may like it too. Depends on your preferences.
The only registered distributor in Oz is up in QLD. AFAIK you're in Vic - no local distro.....

Other than that, great story......
Old 5th August 2020
  #39
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hired Goon View Post
Oh so you didn't actually try one? Seeing as you are in the biz, perhaps the rep can hook you up with the newer Axe III. If not there are plenty of used Axe IIs floating around.

Used in reality shows is it? Good to know. I'm sure Metallica, Def Leppard, Misha Mansoor, John Petrucci, Tobin Abasi, The Edge, Steve Vai, Dweezil Zappa, Joe Satriani, Alex Lifespan, Devin Townsend, Synester Gates, Guthrie Govan, Neil Schon, Andy Summers, Alan Holdsworth, Steve Stevens, Adrian Below, Plini, Sunny Landreth, Bumblefoot, Greg Howe, Marty Friedman, Mark Tremonti, Ty Tabor, or any other of the famous, professional players on that list who use the Axe would be comforted to know it made the grade for reality shows.

Who knows maybe you are a Helix guy:
https://line6.com/artists/

Or perhaps the Kemper would be more your thing as a profiler:
https://www.kemper-amps.com/artist-gallery

Personally I prefer TH-U in the software world - modeling and profiling in one package for a couple hundred bucks.

Just giving the OP some options is all. May not be good enough for you, but possibly for him. At the very least it's good enough for several hundred pros.
If you read my past posts (if you have any interest ) you will know of my experience with the Kemper. And Axe FX (v2, top of the range). I know many people who have Helix ( I stopped at different floor pods decades ago) so have lots of experience there. I would rather have AxeFx.
These have MANY endorsee's (including guys who demoed the latest and the greatest AXEFX for me. Interestingly they only use them for the reality shows of effects cause its convenient. For everything else, inc recording its strictly (mainly boutique) amps)
I dont know of any software sims which compare to any of the HW ones (even Helix). Many name players get payed alot of $$$ to be on the list of users.. By the way why does everyone say TH-U does profiling? They don't say it on their site. Using other peoples models (maybe based on some IR) is not profiling.
Having said all that, if it works for you, I will not judge you. As a producer I am there to make it work for you. So if you are happy with the sim - use the sim.
Old 5th August 2020
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gixertrix View Post
The only registered distributor in Oz is up in QLD. AFAIK you're in Vic - no local distro.....

Other than that, great story......
Not a story. I met him at the annual guitar show in Melbourne. Was introduced by the guys endorsed. These guys move around , you know.
Old 5th August 2020
  #41
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
If you read my past posts (if you have any interest ) you will know of my experience with the Kemper. And Axe FX (v2, top of the range). I know many people who have Helix ( I stopped at different floor pods decades ago) so have lots of experience there. I would rather have AxeFx.
These have MANY endorsee's (including guys who demoed the latest and the greatest AXEFX for me. Interestingly they only use them for the reality shows of effects cause its convenient. For everything else, inc recording its strictly (mainly boutique) amps)
I dont know of any software sims which compare to any of the HW ones (even Helix). Many name players get payed alot of $$$ to be on the list of users.. By the way why does everyone say TH-U does profiling? They don't say it on their site. Using other peoples models (maybe based on some IR) is not profiling.
Having said all that, if it works for you, I will not judge you. As a producer I am there to make it work for you. So if you are happy with the sim - use the sim.
Like I said, I didn't really want to get into it, but here we are. The sims have incredible versatility. Versatility is not mutually exclusive of sound quality. If you look into the home studios of the pros, and I mean big name guitarists, of course you will see high end amps. You will also almost always see either a Kemper, Helix, or some version of Axe, a lot more than you will see a Fender Princeton in 2020.

Of course big commercial studios will have every flavor of amp available, but from what I gather, OP is not one of these.

As for live rigs, almost every episode of "Rig Rundown" had some modeler in the racks.

I bought a Fender amp from Nils Lofgren. Sounds great but it collects dust. For casual play I'll take the modeler. For recording I'll take the modeler. It's super convenient, and is 99% there for 99% of people. I get that there are a lot of purists and elites in here, but I feel many guitarists and producers would take a modeler over a small amp if they had to choose just one.
Old 5th August 2020
  #42
TH-U doesn't do profiling Yuri, if you send them a Kemper profile file and some money they will convert it for you to a model you can use with their software.

The Neural DSP stomp that was meant to come out the end of this year was meant to have a profiling like feature. But I'm guessing everything is being pushed back by COVID now.

For now the Kemper remains the top of the pack when it comes to recording guitar silently. But it costs an arm and a leg.

To the OPs question - IMO yes, it's one of life's great pleasures to crank and amp and just wail. I mean, unless it's about budget and playing live then sure you don't *need* an amp, just like you don't *need* a really nice car, or an expensive steak, or any number of other great things. But it sure is nice to have it.

If you actually need an amp then it's because - you're going to be playing smaller venues without decent PA systems or an in house engineer. Nothing else will be as cheap or convenient for the job. Otherwise it's a wonderful superfluity.
Old 5th August 2020
  #43
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hired Goon View Post
Like I said, I didn't really want to get into it, but here we are. The sims have incredible versatility. Versatility is not mutually exclusive of sound quality. If you look into the home studios of the pros, and I mean big name guitarists, of course you will see high end amps. You will also almost always see either a Kemper, Helix, or some version of Axe, a lot more than you will see a Fender Princeton in 2020.

Of course big commercial studios will have every flavor of amp available, but from what I gather, OP is not one of these.

As for live rigs, almost every episode of "Rig Rundown" had some modeler in the racks.

I bought a Fender amp from Nils Lofgren. Sounds great but it collects dust. For casual play I'll take the modeler. For recording I'll take the modeler. It's super convenient, and is 99% there for 99% of people. I get that there are a lot of purists and elites in here, but I feel many guitarists and producers would take a modeler over a small amp if they had to choose just one.
If a sim is your preference, I respect your choice. But in MY opinion a 10000 so-so models are not as good a a great sounding flexible tube setup.
Most "name " players will show what they are told because they are payed to do so. I know many. It may even work for some , to some degree (not at the expence of denouncing tube gear, but as an additional tonal choice to the pallet)
All good
Old 5th August 2020
  #44
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdme_sadie View Post
TH-U doesn't do profiling Yuri, if you send them a Kemper profile file and some money they will convert it for you to a model you can use with their software.

The Neural DSP stomp that was meant to come out the end of this year was meant to have a profiling like feature. But I'm guessing everything is being pushed back by COVID now.

For now the Kemper remains the top of the pack when it comes to recording guitar silently. But it costs an arm and a leg.

To the OPs question - IMO yes, it's one of life's great pleasures to crank and amp and just wail. I mean, unless it's about budget and playing live then sure you don't *need* an amp, just like you don't *need* a really nice car, or an expensive steak, or any number of other great things. But it sure is nice to have it.

If you actually need an amp then it's because - you're going to be playing smaller venues without decent PA systems or an in house engineer. Nothing else will be as cheap or convenient for the job. Otherwise it's a wonderful superfluity.
Sounds like a waste of time. Kemper already creates a model of the profile (so to speak). Why make a model of a model?
Old 5th August 2020
  #45
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
Sounds like a waste of time. Kemper already creates a model of the profile (so to speak). Why make a model of a model?
Essentially $ and competition. It's cheaper for the consumer, and allows Overloud to piggy back on Kemper's invention. Ironic that the copy technology got copied.

Not everyone wants to profile their own amps, or has an amp to profile. TH-U provides profile quality sounds. For $19-39 you get a profile of a high end amp of your choice. You can get Kemper sound for very little money (provided you have decent input system), and that's the beauty of technology. It demo-cratizes guitar sounds (hyphenated due to gearslutz algos blanking it out)
Old 5th August 2020
  #46
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hired Goon View Post
Essentially $ and competition. It's cheaper for the consumer, and allows Overloud to piggy back on Kemper's invention. Ironic that the copy technology got copied.

Not everyone wants to profile their own amps, or has an amp to profile. TH-U provides profile quality sounds. For $19-39 you get a profile of a high end amp of your choice. You can get Kemper sound for very little money (provided you have decent input system), and that's the beauty of technology. It ********izes guitar sounds.
So you need to buy a profile of a similar amp, at some setting and some speaker, to send to them. Then they will convert it to some model?
Old 5th August 2020
  #47
Gear Maniac
 

OP wanted some clean tones

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjBRYzC5Jfw
Old 5th August 2020
  #48
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
So you need to buy a profile of a similar amp, at some setting and some speaker, to send to them. Then they will convert it to some model?
As far as I know you can only purchase the models they have in their store, but they add new ones every month, and they do have sales.

https://www.overloud.com/rig-libraries

I had heard there was some planned service for you to be able to send in an actual Kemper profile of your choice and they would convert it for you but don't know where that stands. One thing you can do is change the cab IRs if you don't like the ones in the profile pack.
Old 5th August 2020
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hired Goon View Post
As far as I know you can only purchase the models they have in their store, but they add new ones every month, and they do have sales.

https://www.overloud.com/rig-libraries

I had heard there was some planned service for you to be able to send in an actual Kemper profile of your choice and they would convert it for you but don't know where that stands. One thing you can do is change the cab IRs if you don't like the ones in the profile pack.
Random profiles are only good for a certain instance. Which you will probably not use for the next song. It takes too much fiddling to find the right model and hope that in comb with mic'ing you will get the right tone. With an amp (even the same amp) i can use a different speaker and a different mic'ing to get a huge variety of tones. I cannot do that with a profile (the "mic" setting there have nothing to do with mic'ing response, its just a reverb length...). And with having to do that to different profiles it gets too expensive. With a Kemper you roll your own. If you could process your own IRs (especially for multi-amp/multi-speaker setups we do in the studio) it would be a lot more interesting.
I have a few pres (over a dozen actually, with another couple of dozen in the studio) at home, 1 dual power amp and 2 speakers, as well as a load-box and IR player (2 notes CAB, if I like the neighbours) and can get all the variations I want for my mock-ups much quicker and better (and more off) then a sim.
Old 5th August 2020
  #50
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
Random profiles are only good for a certain instance. Which you will probably not use for the next song. It takes too much fiddling to find the right model and hope that in comb with mic'ing you will get the right tone. With an amp (even the same amp) i can use a different speaker and a different mic'ing to get a huge variety of tones. I cannot do that with a profile (the "mic" setting there have nothing to do with mic'ing response, its just a reverb length...). And with having to do that to different profiles it gets too expensive. With a Kemper you roll your own. If you could process your own IRs (especially for multi-amp/multi-speaker setups we do in the studio) it would be a lot more interesting.
I have a few pres (over a dozen actually, with another couple of dozen in the studio) at home, 1 dual power amp and 2 speakers, as well as a load-box and IR player (2 notes CAB, if I like the neighbours) and can get all the variations I want for my mock-ups much quicker and better (and more off) then a sim.
Hey I'm just throwing out options for a home studio. Neural's sims are really good. S-Gear is pretty good too. Clearly you have a lot of great analog and outboard gear that very few can afford, and you know how to use it. You also need to have a giant studio for all that stuff.

At one time I thought I might like to have a whole bunch of amps. They have a certain beauty in not only how they sound but how they look. Neatly organized amp heads in wooden shelves just look so nice. Ultimately, for me though, I wanted as many options in sound as I could get without the clutter of physical objects. I'm very much in the box for all things. Soft synths, effects, VDrums with superior drummer 3, etc, all digital . Again we are talking about a home studio setting.

Thought about getting a bunch of old synths but for convenience and space figured VSTs would get me close enough.
Old 5th August 2020
  #51
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot07 View Post
Hi fellow noise makers,
Here comes my question: 1will it make any difference if I have an amp? 2Why? ..3 is it going to make recordings better somehow?

4Finally, if you have good reasons for me getting an amp... is there one that you could recommend
Simple answer(s)

1) Yes, it will make a lot of difference to the tones, textures, and very possibly your enjoyment of playing.

2) Because you can summon different gain settings,incorporate / control feedback, apply outboard effects

3) Depends on you

4) Plenty of ideas already - you'll see that some are wedded to real amps only, some to sims, others for all in between. All will present advantages and disadvantages. All options are capable of great and terrible sounds.


Questions to ask yourself - are there likely to be any noise restrictions that will negatively impact when you can play (for late night noodling / recording) ?
If yes, then follow digital solution, or strangled / castrated real amp solution.
If no follow real amp.
Do you want a huge variety of effects and sounds easily attainable?
If yes follow digital solution.
If no follow real amp - but possibly budget for pedals / cables etc.
Do you want consistent tone whenever / wherever you switch on?
If yes follow digital solution.
If no follow real amp solution.
Are you prepared to compromise on that real amp feel / tone / experience (which you will need to get used to after playing only direct up until now)
If yes then follow digital solution
If no then only a real amp will float your boat.
Phew.
Finally- most people will have all options as this is Gearslutz
Old 6th August 2020
  #52
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hired Goon View Post
Hey I'm just throwing out options for a home studio. Neural's sims are really good. S-Gear is pretty good too. Clearly you have a lot of great analog and outboard gear that very few can afford, and you know how to use it. You also need to have a giant studio for all that stuff.

At one time I thought I might like to have a whole bunch of amps. They have a certain beauty in not only how they sound but how they look. Neatly organized amp heads in wooden shelves just look so nice. Ultimately, for me though, I wanted as many options in sound as I could get without the clutter of physical objects. I'm very much in the box for all things. Soft synths, effects, VDrums with superior drummer 3, etc, all digital . Again we are talking about a home studio setting.

Thought about getting a bunch of old synths but for convenience and space figured VSTs would get me close enough.
That's what I use at home for mock-ups, practice and quick recordings. Not necessarily expensive (although I do have 16 other nice pres and pedals here, just in case but it is not necessary and can be accumulated over time)
This covers most needs and sounds very acceptable. There are cheaper but still good, pres you can buy . Ditto for the power amp. The speaker in the pick has an alnico WGS, and I have another 1x12 closed back (closed back 50W Ceramic) The Weber Unit allows the 2 PA mono-blocks to share 1 speaker - so everything is quick and you don't spend days sifting through profiles/presets/menus...
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Old 6th August 2020
  #53
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enorbet2's Avatar
OK Yuri...is that a real puppy or a sim puppy?
Old 7th August 2020
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
OK Yuri...is that a real puppy or a sim puppy?
As real as they come. This little terrorist is in charge of morale in COVID times. Spoilt rotten. He also doubles as an alarm clock (whether you want it or not) when he jumps on the bed 7am sharp. Weekends too. His only drawback is that he stole every sock and shoe in the house at one time or other. A handful for a 4-months old, but is a celebrity with all our friends.
Old 7th August 2020
  #55
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enorbet2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
As real as they come. This little terrorist is in charge of morale in COVID times. Spoilt rotten. He also doubles as an alarm clock (whether you want it or not) when he jumps on the bed 7am sharp. Weekends too. His only drawback is that he stole every sock and shoe in the house at one time or other. A handful for a 4-months old, but is a celebrity with all our friends.
He is here. too. I love animals and he looks a sweetheart. Those eyes!
Old 7th August 2020
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
He is here. too. I love animals and he looks a sweetheart. Those eyes!
Yes, a very smart puppy. Sometimes i wonder if he is a reincarnated human. I think he fully understands speech
Old 4 weeks ago
  #57
Gear Nut
 

I think recording an amp in a room is the way to go if you want a nice intimate/detailed guitar sound. If there's a lot of other stuff in your mix, it doesn't matter that much.

A lot of people like Princetons because 10" speakers get that balls-out sound at lower volume.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #58
Gear Head
Came from classical guitar to electric. Recently I started cranking my amp to a point the amplified sound is way louder than the strings (on a Les Paul). It was ear opening. From this point on I had to study way harder.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #59
Quote:
Originally Posted by howseth View Post
'Banjo Mart' Now that sounds like my kind of establishment! To hell with cheap amps. Maybe someone has brought in great-grandpa's old Vega Whyte Laydie I could get my hands on.

Too bad I never lived near a Banjo Mart
It's vaguely Nashville-ese for "Guitar Center". in a slightly derogatory way. Those who are generally not fond of country music (incl. bluegrass, etc.) don't much care for banjos when not working (because when you're working you're at least friendly to everyone.*) Some of us who DO like various forms of country music have picked it up.




* - AFAIK there are still more bagpipe jokes than banjo though. AFAIK.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenofon View Post
Came from classical guitar to electric. Recently I started cranking my amp to a point the amplified sound is way louder than the strings (on a Les Paul). It was ear opening. From this point on I had to study way harder.
HAH!


Welcome to the beginning of your journey, wherever it may lead you!
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