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Cory Wong: Neural DSP have completed their amp sim domination
Old 5th July 2020
  #1
Gear Addict
 
Amroth's Avatar
Cory Wong: Neural DSP have completed their amp sim domination

By bringing in exactly what everybody was saying was the one thing they were missing out on


Old 6th July 2020
  #2
Here for the gear
 

This thing rips. A lot of my client work revolves around alternative/indie where guitars are front and center. I've got a collection of vintage National, Gibson, Supro, and Fender low wattage amps that I don't feel I NEED to setup as much, though I won't be getting rid of them anytime soon. Especially if we're pressed for time at the studio, this plugin can equally match (or sometimes go beyond) what I'm trying to accomplish tone wise and save me time.

Also worth mentioning, the GUI is elegant. I'm all for minimalism/utilitarianism so seeing developers cut through the nonsense is important to me.
Old 6th July 2020
  #3
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amroth View Post
By bringing in exactly what everybody was saying was the one thing they were missing out on


What exactly was that thing you are referring to?
The clip sounds like a standard DI (maybe be with a generic overdrive). Kinda flabby? They are showing lotta' pics but are the pedals in the ballpark of the decent digital real pedals (strymon...)? Are there clips of those somewhere?
Old 6th July 2020
  #4
Hope to test it out today. Might buy it, since it feels like an extremely great sounding clean/crunchy amp sim.

Last edited by Raaphorst; 6th July 2020 at 09:02 AM..
Old 6th July 2020
  #5
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
What exactly was that thing you are referring to?
The clip sounds like a standard DI (maybe be with a generic overdrive). Kinda flabby? They are showing lotta' pics but are the pedals in the ballpark of the decent digital real pedals (strymon...)? Are there clips of those somewhere?
Referring to the clean amp thing, I think. They made their reputation with great amp sims for the higher gain stuff, and while you could use eg. Plini for clean sounds as well by lowering the input gain around 20 db, none of their amp sims was targeting clean guitar sounds. Now there it is! I still have to try it out, but I expect this will be the new standard for clean guitar amp simulation. At least I hope so! :-)
Old 6th July 2020
  #6
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bgood's Avatar
It seems like it does clean up to to mid gain...

Demos I’ve seen are all really impressive... Corey’s an interesting artist to partner with as he’s so agnostic about his amp selection in any interview I’ve ever heard him give...

I’m out of the sim game, but, this one seems like a no brainer
Old 6th July 2020
  #7
Gear Addict
 
Amroth's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan View Post
What exactly was that thing you are referring to?
The clip sounds like a standard DI (maybe be with a generic overdrive). Kinda flabby? They are showing lotta' pics but are the pedals in the ballpark of the decent digital real pedals (strymon...)? Are there clips of those somewhere?
Check this one out, it goes in depth a lot more

Old 6th July 2020
  #8
Didn't buy it. Prefer my Kuassa Amplifikation Matchlock for these type of tones. The Neuraldsp has a little too much "zing" in upper high mids imo.
Old 7th July 2020
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by AshRockwell View Post
This thing rips. A lot of my client work revolves around alternative/indie where guitars are front and center. I've got a collection of vintage National, Gibson, Supro, and Fender low wattage amps that I don't feel I NEED to setup as much, though I won't be getting rid of them anytime soon. Especially if we're pressed for time at the studio, this plugin can equally match (or sometimes go beyond) what I'm trying to accomplish tone wise and save me time.

Also worth mentioning, the GUI is elegant. I'm all for minimalism/utilitarianism so seeing developers cut through the nonsense is important to me.
Well, this certainly MUCH better than most sims. HOWEVER I'm not sure what that "one thing" is for sure - is it the clean tone? Because the clean tone played here is definitely very good, transient response seems really well done, generally quite good AS FAR AS IT GOES.

HOWEVER this demo done NOT cover the thing that I listen for first in judging the quality of a sim, which is how well it does on SUSTAINED notes. This demo seems to be neatly all fairly choppy parts. There are no lyrical sustains.

How about something with some long clean notes, some held until the guitar goes into feedback sustain?

And I still don't get why people seem to think that amps take more time to set up a sound. My experience is exactly the reverse.
Old 7th July 2020
  #10
Lives for gear
 
bgood's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Well, this certainly MUCH better than most sims. HOWEVER I'm not sure what that "one thing" is for sure - is it the clean tone? Because the clean tone played here is definitely very good, transient response seems really well done, generally quite good AS FAR AS IT GOES.

HOWEVER this demo done NOT cover the thing that I listen for first in judging the quality of a sim, which is how well it does on SUSTAINED notes. This demo seems to be neatly all fairly choppy parts. There are no lyrical sustains.

How about something with some long clean notes, some held until the guitar goes into feedback sustain?

And I still don't get why people seem to think that amps take more time to set up a sound. My experience is exactly the reverse.
John,

Is that really you??? Lol

This artist (Wong) is all about the funk, so, I’m not surprised we’re not hearing lots of forever sustaining Dumble type notes on the demo...

That being said, I’d be interested to hear from anybody who has played through it on this Particular topic
Old 20th July 2020
  #11
Gear Maniac
 

They make good plugs but are way too overpriced to dominate anything
Old 20th July 2020
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgood View Post
John,

Is that really you??? Lol

This artist (Wong) is all about the funk, so, I’m not surprised we’re not hearing lots of forever sustaining Dumble type notes on the demo...

That being said, I’d be interested to hear from anybody who has played through it on this Particular topic
Yes. I've always said that my judgements are made on sound quality (as I hear it), not technology. So yes, it's me. Still being nit-pickingly judgemental, of course. Not saying it's perfect, whatever that's supposed to be. But, as much as I hate to say it, this represents pretty much a quantum jump in quality, not on the "big" things (that everybody has), but on the details, where the truth really lies.

They need a demo that isn't so "one-sided". But so far, it's pretty darn good.
Old 20th July 2020
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hired Goon View Post
They make good plugs but are way too overpriced to dominate anything
Only idiots put low price over quality.

If it costs too much, buy a Pod.
Old 20th July 2020
  #14
BTW, I REALLY HATE the title of this thread...



Old 20th July 2020
  #15
Lives for gear
 
bgood's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Yes. I've always said that my judgements are made on sound quality (as I hear it), not technology. So yes, it's me. Still being nit-pickingly judgemental, of course. Not saying it's perfect, whatever that's supposed to be. But, as much as I hate to say it, this represents pretty much a quantum jump in quality, not on the "big" things (that everybody has), but on the details, where the truth really lies.

They need a demo that isn't so "one-sided". But so far, it's pretty darn good.
I’ve totally abandoned sims inside the computer for playing... still keep what I have (a whole lot of them) for reamp occasionally... but this one sounds good!
Old 20th July 2020
  #16
Funny that this got so many positive reviews because to my ears this sounds more transistor like. Which is kinda cool btw, a little lo-fi.
Old 20th July 2020
  #17
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Only idiots put low price over quality.

If it costs too much, buy a Pod.
So I'm a broke idiot am I?

I bought a Pod years ago, and it was good at the time. Gave it to a friend but I still miss it.

Cost is not an issue for me, it's more about value.

I have virtually all of the amp sims. I like Neural's stuff but they do charge a lot for essentially just a few amp models in comparison to other vendors. If you were to buy all of Neural's amps you'd probably be looking at $1000 or more.

My preference is TH-U with the rig profiles, basically giving you a software Kemper and modeling in one package. You get so much more for your dollar, and IMO you can't beat the sound of those profiles. I do like the quality of Neural though, and the simplicity of it, but I'll take TH-U all day.

So yeah I don't see them dominating, because of their pricing, and lack of value in comparison to the competition
Old 20th July 2020
  #18
Lives for gear
 
bgood's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hired Goon View Post
So I'm a broke idiot am I?

I bought a Pod years ago, and it was good at the time. Gave it to a friend but I still miss it.

Cost is not an issue for me, it's more about value.

I have virtually all of the amp sims. I like Neural's stuff but they do charge a lot for essentially just a few amp models in comparison to other vendors. If you were to buy all of Neural's amps you'd probably be looking at $1000 or more.

My preference is TH-U with the rig profiles, basically giving you a software Kemper and modeling in one package. You get so much more for your dollar, and IMO you can't beat the sound of those profiles. I do like the quality of Neural though, and the simplicity of it, but I'll take TH-U all day.

So yeah I don't see them dominating, because of their pricing, and lack of value in comparison to the competition
The th-u stuff is really good
Old 20th July 2020
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hired Goon View Post
My preference is TH-U with the rig profiles, basically giving you a software Kemper and modeling in one package. You get so much more for your dollar, and IMO you can't beat the sound of those profiles. I do like the quality of Neural though, and the simplicity of it, but I'll take TH-U all day.
Wow, thanks for the tip! Looking great. Will try out TH-U soon.
Old 20th July 2020
  #20
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raaphorst View Post
Wow, thanks for the tip! Looking great. Will try out TH-U soon.
The modeling is very good, but it's the profiling that takes it to the next level. Of course you have to buy the profiles separately but they regularly go on sale for $19-29 dollars. Check out some of the sound demoes on YouTube from some of the profile makers (Choptones, Live Ready Sounds, Big Hairy Sounds).

Honestly my quest for guitar tones is over with TH-U. I sold my Helix because it didn't compete in terms of quality. I suspect profiling will be an option for a lot of guitar sims soon.
Old 23rd July 2020
  #21
Gear Nut
Man, this thing with Ownhammer Bogner and Fender DLX IR's is something else, best amp sims I've heard from a plugin.
Old 24th July 2020
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hired Goon View Post
So I'm a broke idiot am I?

I bought a Pod years ago, and it was good at the time. Gave it to a friend but I still miss it.

Cost is not an issue for me, it's more about value.

I have virtually all of the amp sims. I like Neural's stuff but they do charge a lot for essentially just a few amp models in comparison to other vendors. If you were to buy all of Neural's amps you'd probably be looking at $1000 or more.

My preference is TH-U with the rig profiles, basically giving you a software Kemper and modeling in one package. You get so much more for your dollar, and IMO you can't beat the sound of those profiles. I do like the quality of Neural though, and the simplicity of it, but I'll take TH-U all day.

So yeah I don't see them dominating, because of their pricing, and lack of value in comparison to the competition
At this point in my life the only thing I'm really interested in getting for of for my buck is QUALITY.

I have absolutely no interest in acquiring a bunch of crap that I won't use. I learned that lesson a long time ago.

Not interested in "choices" unless they're all good ones. And usually, when you look at things from that perspective, it narrows the playing field a lot.
Old 24th July 2020
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hired Goon View Post
The modeling is very good, but it's the profiling that takes it to the next level. Of course you have to buy the profiles separately but they regularly go on sale for $19-29 dollars. Check out some of the sound demoes on YouTube from some of the profile makers (Choptones, Live Ready Sounds, Big Hairy Sounds).

Honestly my quest for guitar tones is over with TH-U. I sold my Helix because it didn't compete in terms of quality. I suspect profiling will be an option for a lot of guitar sims soon.
It's not a Kemper substitute unless it profiles.

If you have a Kemper and don't create your own profiles you're really missing the point.
Old 25th July 2020
  #24
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
At this point in my life the only thing I'm really interested in getting for of for my buck is QUALITY.

I have absolutely no interest in acquiring a bunch of crap that I won't use. I learned that lesson a long time ago.

Not interested in "choices" unless they're all good ones. And usually, when you look at things from that perspective, it narrows the playing field a lot.
And why do you assume TH-U models are a bunch of crap? Whether or not you use a certain amp model or pedal doesn't mean that it's not important to someone else. There are plenty of amps I don't touch in TH-U. I have my favorites based on my style and interests.

I get what you are saying that it's better to have a few good ones than a hundred mediocre ones, but as I've said, I feel the modeling in TH-U is excellent, and the profiled rigs are even better.
Old 25th July 2020
  #25
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
It's not a Kemper substitute unless it profiles.

If you have a Kemper and don't create your own profiles you're really missing the point.

Yes, it's not a true Kemper substitute unless it profiles your own rig. That is a big distinction. For those who either don't own decent amps, or don't have a variety of different amps, many of which cost several thousand each, this software is ideal.

You don't have to worry about the quality of the modeling if that concerns you. The profiles are the same as the Kemper. Personally I will take the sound of a profiled amp over a modeled amp, and that includes anything made by Neural. If you feel modeling presents a better representation of an amp than a Kemper profile, than perhaps TH-U is not for you. Have fun playing what you choose.
Old 25th July 2020
  #26
Personally TH-U didn’t sound or feel as good as the Kemper to me for the same profile. Obviously it’s just taking the data stored in the profile file and using it with its own algorithm, the frequency response info and parameters etc to drive their own sim and fx which is why it doesn’t sound or feel the same.

The neural DSP stuff is interesting to me though, just because of their claims about using deep learning algorithms. Although I have to admit so far the demos haven’t won me over, but their concept sounds great and the idea of this small form factor pedal that they’ll be coming out with later on this year that has its own technology like profiling that can capture an amps sound is very cool and could help shake things up a little and get some competition going finally.
Old 25th July 2020
  #27
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdme_sadie View Post
Personally TH-U didn’t sound or feel as good as the Kemper to me for the same profile. Obviously it’s just taking the data stored in the profile file and using it with its own algorithm, the frequency response info and parameters etc to drive their own sim and fx which is why it doesn’t sound or feel the same.

The neural DSP stuff is interesting to me though, just because of their claims about using deep learning algorithms. Although I have to admit so far the demos haven’t won me over, but their concept sounds great and the idea of this small form factor pedal that they’ll be coming out with later on this year that has its own technology like profiling that can capture an amps sound is very cool and could help shake things up a little and get some competition going finally.
Interesting. So you've purchased both a Kemper and own TH-U and have the exact same third party profile, like one of the Choptones rigs? I was under the impression they play Kemper profiles directly although the files are named differently. I doubt profile makers would go through the whole process twice.

Example with exact same number of profiles and identical gear used:

https://www.choptones.com/products/f...C&sort=pd.name

https://overloud.com/products/choptones-fried-be50d
Old 25th July 2020
  #28
Gear Addict
 
Amroth's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
BTW, I REALLY HATE the title of this thread...




Would it sort of make it up if I told you that I read every one of your posts with great fervour?
Old 26th July 2020
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hired Goon View Post
Interesting. So you've purchased both a Kemper and own TH-U and have the exact same third party profile, like one of the Choptones rigs? I was under the impression they play Kemper profiles directly although the files are named differently. I doubt profile makers would go through the whole process twice.

Example with exact same number of profiles and identical gear used:

https://www.choptones.com/products/f...C&sort=pd.name

https://overloud.com/products/choptones-fried-be50d
I have a Kemper, know the profiles, th-u has a demo. Not all the profiles Th-u is hawking are from commercial packs.

They don’t “play“ profiles. The kipr file format doesn’t contain the model itself, just the settings. So there’s frequency response in there as IR for the cab, settings for the rest of the amp model gain parameter settings, some people have pulled the file format apart online. TH-U is not a reverse engineered Kemper. Think of it like saving the settings you use on an amp sim elsewhere in a file format, just because you have the settings and even the IR file doesn’t mean you would get the same result using Bias as using Scuffam.
Old 26th July 2020
  #30
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdme_sadie View Post
I have a Kemper, know the profiles, th-u has a demo. Not all the profiles Th-u is hawking are from commercial packs.

They don’t “play“ profiles. The kipr file format doesn’t contain the model itself, just the settings. So there’s frequency response in there as IR for the cab, settings for the rest of the amp model gain parameter settings, some people have pulled the file format apart online. TH-U is not a reverse engineered Kemper. Think of it like saving the settings you use on an amp sim elsewhere in a file format, just because you have the settings and even the IR file doesn’t mean you would get the same result using Bias as using Scuffam.
Well I read this on GS: If you open the vst file in notepad++ you can even use the find function to find "Kemper profile rig player" in their code.

Regardless, if you aren't comparing identical profile sets it's really a meaningless comparison. I'm sure there are "good" and "bad" profiles that exist for either product. The few profiles included with standard TH-U aren't the same as the 3rd party ones. Additionally as a Kemper owner you have a horse in the race.

Apologies to OP as this thread was about Neural sims, which I like, I just don't think they dominate.
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