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Bass Players - Recommend A Guitar Player A Decent Bass
Old 3rd July 2020
  #61
Quote:
Originally Posted by uOpt View Post
Isn't it bad to build muscle memory on a short scale bass when you want full scale eventually?

Applies both to the OP and to kids that get teaching.
It's a lot easier to adapt to a short scale bass after playing a full scale than it is to do the opposite.

Short scale basses can cause players to develop bad habits.
Old 3rd July 2020
  #62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
I don't think that's a big concern. Electric guitarists switch back and forth between Gibson and Fender all the time.
Bass isn't the same as guitar and there's a big difference between 3/4" in length and 4". The full scale bass uses different fingering than shorter scale basses*. The longer scale also makes a big difference in the lower notes, which don't sound as well in shorter basses.


* - players with long fingers can choose between proper bass fingering and guitar fingering, players with shorter fingers are well advised to stick with bass fingering, at least below the 5th fret.
Old 3rd July 2020
  #63
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
It depends on how agile you are.
No.

Bad habits are bad habits.
Old 3rd July 2020
  #64
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
^^ Not true, an onboard HPF wired before the volume control will sound way different than an EQ on a desk. Also John there is a different between active eq and and active pickups. Do you even own or play bass?
I've played bass longer than you've probably been alive - started in the early/mid '60s, about 2 years after the guitar.

Not sure how many basses I have - around half a dozen, plus my lead player who shares my house has at least a couple.

I can do anything with the EQ in my desk that you can with the controls on an active bass. You just need to know how to use your gear. Also, with a couple notable exceptions, the quality of electronics built into active basses is nowhere even remotely close to the EQ on even a medium quality recording console.
Old 3rd July 2020
  #65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mokey View Post
Here is another vote for - Fender P bass! you'll not be sorry.

And, I DO like the deluxe active pickups. If you test some out a local shop you can hear the difference, and what you need to get the sounds you want. For me, I use the active pickups to get rid of high frequencies right from the axe. It is a bummer to have to worry about batteries ALWAYS unplug it. And also don't just leave them in it long enough to have the batteries leak out and damage it. But for me actives are still the best way to get the sound I want from the bass, with zero brain damage.
It is a royal pain in the butt to get an album to mix only to discover that the idiot bass player has rolled off all the top end.

Usually what I do in such cases is to replace the bass part.

Once something's gone it's gone - you can't boost what isn't there. And very often the tone you need on bass when mixing is NOT what the bass player "thought" was good.

That's why I don't like active basses - unless they're in the hands of somebody with enough experience to know what not to do.
Old 3rd July 2020
  #66
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
Yeah that's something that comes up with me in the "real world," that no top end thing. I want to shake these people by the shoulders and tell them what for. Rookie move.
Old 3rd July 2020
  #67
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
Jeff Berlin plays a Cort and he is one of the best bass player alive today.
But you are kind of making my point. The reason Fenders are so popular is becasue many artists played them in the 50s and 60s when there were only 5 major guitar brands and 4 of them were much more expensive than Fender, hence the Fender popularity. Fenders are popular because they are $cheap$ and plentiful not because they are good. In fact they are garbage. They are also popular because most musicians are sheep. If I had to choose between playing bass with a fender or not playing bass, I would quit.



Fender American or mexican or squire are all roughly the same. Some just suck more. It's much like the difference between say a 1952 tele and a brand new tele. The only difference is the 52 has just sucked for 68 more years. There is no different in quality or sound.
You could not be more wrong. It's clear that you know nothing about the evolution of Fender basses over the years - but we knew that already.

You've never actually owned a real original pre-CBS Fender bass, have you? You're just talking through your hat.

I used to have a Precision with a body dated 1959 and a neck dated 1960 that was sold new as a 61. It was NOTHING like a new bass. It was also nothing like Fender basses made prior to 1956, when they changed to pickup. It got stolen by a "friend" I had it stored with when I went on tour.

Quote:
If you want a quality bass sound there are loads of better instruments on the market. If you consider the bass players in the world virtually none of them play Fenders. they may have when they were sheep but as they matured they change to quality basses. Wooten, Hellborg, Berlin, Percy Jones, Bunny Brunel all play high end basses.
If you can afford expensive hand built basses, sure. Go ahead, spend 5 grand.

Other than that, no.
Old 3rd July 2020
  #68
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
True. He did... but I often wondered why he didn't play a Silvertone since he wasn't a real bass player, he was a Sears bass player

BTW, since OP is mainly a guitar player and has already mentioned concern over the cost of a "real" Fender, I'd like to add to the sacrilege and point out that Yamaha has long made really decent basses, even in their lowest price models ($200-$300 USD)

Edit: Oops! A few others beat me to it.
For some reason Yamaha basses never really grabbed me.
Old 4th July 2020
  #69
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enorbet2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
For some reason Yamaha basses never really grabbed me.
If you never liked Yamaha basses (and it does depend a bit on model and music style desired) do the name Gibson strike a familiar note? How does this "grab" ya?



Play on words Joke ofc ;P

BTW, while I prefer the tone of long scale basses there was a few years in the early 70s when Gibson introduced the long scale "EB" series that had horrible problems with dead spots. Many Fenders during that time had similar issues. Danny Gatton demonstrated this to me and said he wasn't sure why but a workaround was to buy "Taped" bass strings and cutoff the "tape" !!! :D (actually a plastic sleeve on a coarse round wound base)
Old 10th July 2020
  #70
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
It is a royal pain in the butt to get an album to mix only to discover that the idiot bass player has rolled off all the top end.

Usually what I do in such cases is to replace the bass part.

Once something's gone it's gone - you can't boost what isn't there. And very often the tone you need on bass when mixing is NOT what the bass player "thought" was good.

That's why I don't like active basses - unless they're in the hands of somebody with enough experience to know what not to do.
Yes - True so true! leave SOME of the mids & tiny bit of highs - learned early to let bass sit in the mix. One thing I have done to put back some of what is gone is to use some tube style plugins like Kush or similar harmonics that then add back in higher frequencies with the true bass track character. Much easier than replaying the track - unless you want to "teach the bass player a lesson" - AND harmonics still won't work if clean type bass tones are needed.

~Cheers~
Old 11th July 2020
  #71
[QUOTE=John Eppstein;14837505

That's why I don't like active basses - unless they're in the hands of somebody with enough experience to know what not to do.[/QUOTE]
I agree but have to say some of the very best bass sounds I've had the pleasure to record were with Sadowsky basses. That guy knows how to build a preamp, of the players I recorded who had them were all great.
Old 11th July 2020
  #72
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiclab View Post
I agree but have to say some of the very best bass sounds I've had the pleasure to record were with Sadowsky basses. That guy knows how to build a preamp, of the players I recorded who had them were all great.
You can't paint actives with a broad brush. Lots of the cheap ones profoundly suck, but Sadowskys and a few others are really good, especially if what you're doing calls for a DC-to-light frequency range and a ton of response to touch.
Old 11th July 2020
  #73
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
By today's standards, Fenders are some of the worse sounding basses on the market. There are literately 100s of better basses on the market. Warwick, Cort, Kramer, Schecter and Peavey to name a few.
Also check out Ibanez 4 strings. I've been impressed with these (for the money) just randomly picking them of the racks over the years.

Bottom line is look for even neck, excellent intonation throughout the fretboard, and even dynamics throughout the range of the instrument as a starting point.

I would avoid active electronics for a budget studio bass. You want something that you can just plug in and go. I've owned them and the batteries go dead at exactly the wrong time, the pickups can be noisy, the list goes on.

P.S. It can be difficult to pick one off the rack that has potential if you buy from a big box store or a store where they don't professionally setup every instrument that they put on the sales floor.
Old 11th July 2020
  #74
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louie1 View Post
P.S. It can be difficult to pick one off the rack that has potential if you buy from a big box store or a store where they don't professionally setup every instrument that they put on the sales floor.
Sorta. Even just playing open strings, seemingly identical specimens can sound very different. Especially semi-hollows like a Hofner Beatle bass or an Epiphone Jack Casady. And set up or not, you can go chromatically up the neck and look for dead spots, which are deal killers.

Last edited by Brent Hahn; 12th July 2020 at 03:29 AM.. Reason: Epiphone, not Ibanez
Old 11th July 2020
  #75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
...And set up or not, you can go chromatically up the neck and look for dead spots, which are deal killers.
True.
Old 30th July 2020
  #76
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chrischoir's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Louie1 View Post
Also check out Ibanez 4 strings. .
yeah mid level SR series are very nice
Old 30th July 2020
  #77
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
I can do anything with the EQ in my desk that you can with the controls on an active bass.
Not my experience here. Insertion and capacitive losses from cables and passive volume/tone pots will absorb some of the tops. Those losses are permanent, no EQ (with possible exception of my special 31 band graphic with + - 30 db of EQ range) can recover those losses.

Any load below 5 meg ohms will take off some tops. My active basses use a 5 meg ohm input impedance with a two band sweep EQ with + - 15 db of adjustment similar to some recording desks except no caps in the signal path and better passives and IC's are used. The matched pickup coils get me a -80 db s/n ratio. My P-bass pickup was wound to 1k ohms per coil by Seymour Duncan back in 1979. It's resonant peak is at 32k hz. It's full range and needs those circuits to be heard.
Old 30th July 2020
  #78
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
Neither of these guys or much of anyone else ever post clips to support what they say, or (even better) do their talking for them. So it's all hot air as far as I'm concerned.

But when you cherry-pick a quote it's a lot easier to poke holes in it. Eppstein actually said this:

Quote:
I can do anything with the EQ in my desk that you can with the controls on an active bass. You just need to know how to use your gear. Also, with a couple notable exceptions, the quality of electronics built into active basses is nowhere even remotely close to the EQ on even a medium quality recording console.
Old 1st August 2020
  #79
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
True. He did... but I often wondered why he didn't play a Silvertone since he wasn't a real bass player, he was a Sears bass player

BTW, since OP is mainly a guitar player and has already mentioned concern over the cost of a "real" Fender, I'd like to add to the sacrilege and point out that Yamaha has long made really decent basses, even in their lowest price models ($200-$300 USD)

Edit: Oops! A few others beat me to it.
Every time I saw Harvey Brooks play before The Electric Flag he was using a Danelectro shorthorn (short scale) bass. Speaking of "Sears" type basses........
Old 2nd August 2020
  #80
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grannis's Avatar
I took up bass seriously about 3 months ago having played guitar for 30 years, and never really thinking I fancied playing bass. What turned me onto it was playing a friends 5-string. I find it so much more intuitive to navigate the fretboard on a 5-string. You have to take more care with muting but that’s probably no biggie if you are an experienced guitarist.
Old 2nd August 2020
  #81
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by grannis View Post
I find it so much more intuitive to navigate the fretboard on a 5-string.
That strikes me as odd, since guitars don't have a low B string.
Old 2nd August 2020
  #82
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grannis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
That strikes me as odd, since guitars don't have a low B string.
Well I was certainly surprised! If I had known, I would’ve tried it years ago.
Old 2nd August 2020
  #83
Gear Head
I'm not a bass player, more guitar and keys. I had a friend give me a bass guitar supposed to be a super cheap model. Vantage VS-695B. It had this cheap pot metal Gibson style bridge that was lifting up, actually the metal was bending, it was missing a tuner, and the neck and frets needed some work. I wanted a bass for recording so I took it in to a reputable shop that had a luthier that was also a full time bass player in several bands. We decided on the replacement hardware, he did a fret job, installed the parts, and did a set up. The bass plays great, he said it ended up playing better than his own bass ( I think they just tell us that to keep us happy). He said he loved the sound of it, and the wood and fit and finish was very good. Explained to me it was maid in Japan and was considered a decent sounding bass, except for the cheap hardware. I use it now, in my recordings, there are probably several million better basses but, in my hands this bass works just fine for my needs. Total cost under $500.00.
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Old 2nd August 2020
  #84
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
Nice. IMO, that's "good salesmanship." I don't mind flattery from a sales person at all, it seems nice enough, even if it's biased. I'm sure that's one of their main tactics. If they did the opposite it would shoot them in both feet. But yeah a proper setup and parts can turn an instrument 180 to something good, more often than not. I love those old japanese import instruments. They have a lot of character. I used to play a guitar like that for a few years a Memphis MG-300, looked very similar to that bass construction wise.
Old 2nd August 2020
  #85
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chrischoir's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
That strikes me as odd, since guitars don't have a low B string.
7 string guitars have the low b. You can use a low b on a 6 string though. Nothing is stopping you
Old 2nd August 2020
  #86
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huub's Avatar
I did not read the other posts when posting this but I suggest a squire P bass or a squire jaguar bass (short scale).
Old 2nd August 2020
  #87
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huub's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
It depends on how agile you are.
I think most bassplayers play some guitar as well.
I don't think switching between sizes is that big of a deal.
I play guitar, longscale 4, 5 and 6 string bass and short scale bass, your mind has to adjust for a minute when switching.

Anyway, I think the whole longscale shortscale thing discussed here is a non-issue.

Huub
Old 2nd August 2020
  #88
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
7 string guitars have the low b. You can use a low b on a 6 string though. Nothing is stopping you
Fine.
Old 2nd August 2020
  #89
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uOpt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gharrison0054 View Post
I'm not a bass player, more guitar and keys. I had a friend give me a bass guitar supposed to be a super cheap model. Vantage VS-695B.
Those neck-through Vantage instrument were quality gear. Not that cheap either.
Old 3rd August 2020
  #90
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
That strikes me as odd, since guitars don't have a low B string.
Well where there is a will....
I have a baritone with heaviest strings possible (from Fender Bass XI) and the low string can be tuned to B (although it on A at the moment). The problem is I need to use bass cabs
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