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Formal Musical Training vs/ Instinct and Experience
Old 23rd May 2020
  #1
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enorbet2's Avatar
Formal Musical Training vs/ Instinct and Experience

Greetz
There can be no doubt that there is substantial value to learning Music Theory but I find all too commonly that many if not most highly trained musicians tend to look down on less trained musicians, completely replacing the visceral with intellect. I submit a blend is best but neither side has a monopoly on greatness. One can have an awesome vocabulary but if that person has no life experience, or is just "wired" like a robot, who cares? They have nothing worth talking about for very long.

I'm sure many here check out Rick Beato's "What Makes This Song Great" and he is great because he is obviously highly trained but never lost sight of what matters most... the Music. Here's a superb example of a band that many write off as some overblown punk rock band that Rick demonstrates, often with isolated tracks!, that shows there is a reason this song has been covered by highly trained, serious musicians from a wide range of schools, including Classical and Jazz. It's both terribly smart, extremely tight, and powerfully instinctive. I'm betting many here will gain an expanded awareness if they manage to watch the whole thing.

Above all... Enjoy and Learn... and comment if you have something worthwhile to say.



You might want to contemplate statements like "This is not quantized" and "Today this would be cut out".
Old 23rd May 2020
  #2
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A440's Avatar
I think that mature musicians tend to admire other musicians on either side of the spectrum. From a highly trained classical pianist to a gutsy raw punk musician. They both rightly have a place within our musical culture and have much to offer. There is no right or wrong way of going about making sonic art. There are schools and traditions of course and it's right to respect these. But the bottom line is music draws upon science, technique and instinct to organise sound into a subjective aesthetic experience. That's what makes it so amazing.
Old 23rd May 2020
  #3
What many people miss about music theory is that it's actually a language for communication between musicians, not a set of hard and fast rules that must be followed.
Old 23rd May 2020
  #4
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Been watching beatos channel for a long time and it’s blown up.
Yeah I think part of what’s missing in music today is people interpretation of it. What they create from the sounds they’ve subconsciously filed away in their heads.
You don’t need to know much if any theory, so long as you have a reference, a catalog of songs filed away in your head. As to what music sounds like.
This maybe a much more creative way to... create. As opposed to having so many rules, and standards to follow and everything popular in the time period being completely in tune, in time, or people trying to even purposely make things in tune and in time.

Also, a good producer overseeing the record helps so much.
Kurt didn’t want to double his vocals because he felt like it was fake. It was what pop stars did.
Then Butch Vig told him that Lennon did it.
So he convinced Kurt to double his vox in the choruses.
Not to mention the live shows and/or rehearsals where they’d likely played this song and others, refined their parts here and there to make them fit better or stand out more.
This isn’t the norm anymore because the time and the budgets aren’t there.
Old 24th May 2020
  #5
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kingofspain's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post
Greetz

I'm sure many here check out Rick Beato's "What Makes This Song Great" and he is great because he is obviously highly trained but never lost sight of what matters most... the Music.
I've been following his channel for a year or two - just watched this installment last night. Ecellent as always.

The '90's were my musical youth. My friends and I were massive Nirvana fans, as only teenagers can be. Kurts suicide was a visceral loss for us - perhaps how a earlier generation might have felt about Janis, Jimi or Jim.

To find out that the song is harmonically complex should have come as no surprise - we've been hearing it this past quarter century. To have those complexities broken down was a real eye opener. Whether he knew it or not, Mr Cobain had an ear for melody and harmony which transcended the 'punk' ethos that underlined and undermined the grunge movement.

Back to the case in hand. I've always felt that the uneducated 'savant' (Kurt Cobain perhaps being a good example) has the edge on the well trained theoretician.
The Cobains of the world will never be able to noodle endlessly through a talk-box like 'Frampton Goes Beserk', but will be able to offer the world singular works of genius like 'Smells Like Teeen Spirit'.

There's probably a happy medium out there somewhere, where technique meets instinct. Paco de Lucia springs to mind...
Old 24th May 2020
  #6
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I think some formal training goes a long way. Understanding key signatures, time names, common rhythm names, etc is critical to efficient communication.

The largest swing comes when all involved can work out a songs at room volume, no matter what kind of format the end product is. Talking while playing to work out material is a great way to get things done quickly.
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